Ahan Dan vs Crimson Viper

[DimeUhDozen]

• Speed Equalized
• Pre-Treatment Ahan Dan will be used

Ahan Dan:
C. Viper: Lonkitt (1)
Incon:

 

[Lonkitt]

I feel like C. Viper has a skill advantage and a much better versatility advantage, though how does Ahan's fear manip operate? Is it always on or does she activate it by choice? If its the latter, then does she start with it?

 

[Maitreya12]

I feel like C. Viper has a skill advantage and a much better versatility advantage, though how does Ahan's fear manip operate? Is it always on or does she activate it by choice? If its the latter, then does she start with it?

C Viper probably definitely has a skill advantage (don’t know much about the character). Ahan is decently skilled as a fighter but nothing compared to the actual known fighters in the verse, especially this key of her.

Her fear manip is always on. It’s essentially a basic aspect of the verse and if she is stronger than her opponent it can make them totally paralyzed in fear from the gap.

How good is Viper’s resistances? Like what temperatures can she endure, because I see she has a lot of capabilities on her profile but Ahan’s power is strong and can be used in versatile ways. (Like she can go down to something like -200 C and she’s willing enough to cover herself in ice so that even if she’s struggling against an opponent they’d get affected just by hitting her).

 

[Lonkitt]

Her fear manip is always on. It’s essentially a basic aspect of the verse and if she is stronger than her opponent it can make them totally paralyzed in fear from the gap.

I had a feeling

How good is Viper’s resistances? Like what temperatures can she endure, because I see she has a lot of capabilities on her profile but Ahan’s power is strong and can be used in versatile ways. (Like she can go down to something like -200 C and she’s willing enough to cover herself in ice so that even if she’s struggling against an opponent they’d get affected just by hitting her).

If we're just talking about temperatures in general? Viper's dishing out moves that constantly cover herself in sizeable flames and large surges of electricity and she remains totally fine. She hasn't been showing resisting extremely cold ice attacks, though given Viper's mobility and skill, I could see her easily avoiding Ahan's attacks. Also the fact that she can spawn flames around herself helps a ton

That said, the fear manip thing seems like a potentially huge hurdle

 

[Lonkitt]

That said, the fear manip thing seems like a potentially huge hurdle

Actually, hold up. The fear manip is based on differences in power levels, right? I'm gonna take a look at the High 5-A value for Ahan since it could determine whether or not the fear manip is effective

 

[Lonkitt]

So Ahan upscales 1.218 quettatons. Though I'd like to ask if its just general upscaling or if there's more of a chain

Viper upscales 1.64552679 quettatons. In her case, she scales to Black Widow, who scales to Captain America

Captain America = Iron Man > Hawkeye > Galactus (1.64552679 quettatons)

 

[Maitreya12]

Actually, hold up. The fear manip is based on differences in power levels, right? I'm gonna take a look at the High 5-A value for Ahan since it could determine whether or not the fear manip is effective

Yes it is and from what I understand since the difference in AP is that of nearly 2x against Ahan, her fear manip would not work in this case.

Makes for a more interesting match. Ahan also resists fire and larval pretty well and is capable of using those abilities in this key along with earth manipulation as well.

 

[Lonkitt]

Yes it is and from what I understand since the difference in AP is that of nearly 2x against Ahan, her fear manip would not work in this case.

Alright. Thanks again for clarifying

From what I can tell, here are the advantages

Ahan:
-Regeneration
-Ice Manipulation
-Resists Fire Manipulation

C. Viper
-Greater AP/Durability
-Greater LS
-More skilled
-More versatile
-Greater mobility (Due to her acrobatics and flight)
-Can dish out stronger attacks with EX variants
-X-Factor can make her even stronger/durability, grant her a speed edge, and passively heal her
-Has two different methods of stunning Ahan
-Resists Fire Manipulation


Ahan's versatile use of ice manipulation, resistance to fire manipulation, and regeneration does give her the opportunity to win here, though it seems more likely that Viper wins. I feel that her skill and versatility ultimately gonna pay off here, since while fire manip may not be as effective as usual, she still has multiple other options (electricity, seismic attacks, Focus Attack, etc). Additionally, I could see her sunglasses' energy beams catching Ahan off guard. Viper's Thunder Knuckle and Focus Attacks would also leave Ahan open for combos. Finally, EX variants of her attacks and X-Factor would allow her to dish out more damage, with the latter granting a speed edge at the same time

Voting Crimson Viper

 

[Maitreya12]

Will post an analysis of the fight and Ahan’s capabilities soon

 

[Maitreya12]

To give a breakdown of Ahan Dan’s capabilities and powers in the verse, she holds the war deities as her borrowed power, however she is most proficient with the youngest brother, Lot.

This makes her extremely capable in ice based powers as she’s very good at close-mid ranges combat, being able to conjure ice structures at will and her ice is so cold that even just being near her is lethal to her opponent.

She can also use her ice manipulation for various other purposes such as blocking oncoming attacks, being able to freeze opponents at a distance, or for long ranges weapon creation purposes.

While probably not as skilled as Viper, Ahan is quite adept in martial arts in her own right and is highly resistant to things such as fire and electricity.

She also developed new abilities such as lava manipulation and earth manipulation which she’s able to use for things like halting her opponent’s movements with the ground underneath them and is able to use these powers in conjunction with her ice manipulation at the same time. However she is not as proficient with them as her as her ice based abilities since these powers were very recently acquired in this key.

While I don’t doubt C Viper is extremely capable, being able to stun Ahan’s movements, having a higher LS and AP advantage alongside her great mobility with things such as afterimage creation and flight making her very hard to catch, seeing as how even one of Ahan’s attacks are lethal to Viper due to the extreme temperatures she’s dealing with and how Ahan is highly resistant to fire manipulation herself, I believe Ahan has more of a chance in landing a critical strike on C Viper before she would be out skilled and overwhelmed by her in this fight.

Voting for Ahan

 

[Lonkitt]

This makes her extremely capable in ice based powers as she’s very good at close-mid ranges combat, being able to conjure ice structures at will and her ice is so cold that even just being near her is lethal to her opponent.

Although this is impressive, C. Viper’s agility and fire based attacks would be able to counter this pretty well

She can also use her ice manipulation for various other purposes such as blocking oncoming attacks, being able to freeze opponents at a distance, or for long ranges weapon creation purposes.

I don’t think C. Viper would have any trouble avoiding this. Aside from the fact that being struck by these attacks are well within her ability to avoid, she has comparable skill to Black Widow, someone capable of easily finding opponents much more skilled than Ahan predictable. It wouldn’t take much effort for Viper to foresee Ahan’s attacks

While probably not as skilled as Viper, Ahan is quite adept in martial arts in her own right and is highly resistant to things such as fire and electricity.

Two huge things to cover here. First is that the skill gap is pretty wide, and second is that Ahan isn’t resistant to electricity

Ahan’s proficiency in martial arts isn’t at the same level as C. Viper. Just to go over her skillset…
-Viper created her own fighting style called “covert fighting tools”
-She’s an extremely gifted CIA operatives with her high level of efficiency and diligence earning her the nickname “Miss Perfect” among other operatives
-Nick Fury sought Viper out to make her an operative of S.H.I.E.L.D., considering her among “the best”. This is important to note since this would put her among the likes of Black Widow, who is a world-class spy that’s highly skilled in combat and espionage, and has field experience in jobs that can be found in history books. Black Widow has also fought Captain America enough times to read his movements, with Cap being proficient in boxing, judo, aikido, and various other fighting disciplines, utilized a special fighting style with his shield in which he can precisely throw it to strike enemies before it returns to him without failure, and has experience fighting in World War II as well as leading a Task Force against Thanos. Additionally, Hawkeye, who is so skilled that he views teleporting attacks as “so easy to read”, holds Black Widow on high regard and was trained by Cap, who he respects more than anyone he knows. In terms of skill-scaling, Viper scales to these feats above, and Captain America was even impressed with her level of skill

Overall, Ahan isn’t a a bad fighter, but she’s practically a beginner compared to where Viper is

Now for the second part I wanted to address. Ahan isn’t resisting electricity in that scan. Based on the panel as well as the expression and pose she’s making, she’s very clearly stunned in that panel. Given just how much electricity Viper utilities herself, that’s gonna be a huge issue for Ahan

Plus, there’s also the Focus Attack, a non-electricity based attack that would put Ahan into a crumbling state

She also developed new abilities such as lava manipulation and earth manipulation which she’s able to use for things like halting her opponent’s movements with the ground underneath them and is able to use these powers in conjunction with her ice manipulation at the same time. However she is not as proficient with them as her as her ice based abilities since these powers were very recently acquired in this key.

Viper would easily be able to avoid the halting technique, given her acrobatics, flight, greater LS, and use of seismic attacks. It wouldn’t be easy to avoid or outright break out of this hold

The wave of attacks you sent in the scan certainly looks daunting, but for my next response, I’m going to address another reason why this isn’t an issue

While I don’t doubt C Viper is extremely capable, being able to stun Ahan’s movements, having a higher LS and AP advantage alongside her great mobility with things such as afterimage creation and flight making her very hard to catch, seeing as how even one of Ahan’s attacks are lethal to Viper due to the extreme temperatures she’s dealing with and how Ahan is highly resistant to fire manipulation herself, I believe Ahan has more of a chance in landing a critical strike on C Viper before she would be out skilled and overwhelmed by her in this fight.

Note that Viper doesn’t just have greater mobility. Tapping into X-Factor, all of her stats are amplified, including speed (and she passively heals at the same time in this state). Given speed is equalized in this fight, X-Factor’s easily going to let her out speed Ahan. This along with the aforementioned mobility advantage and the much greater skill advantage would mean Viper can easily overwhelm Ahan

Ahan may resist fire manipulation, but Viper doesn’t solely rely on it, as can be seen in her fighting style. She’s be quick to utilize electricity-based and seismic attacks, including the more powerful EX variants

In larger forms, the ice manipulation could be lethal, but in the smaller variants you have provided with scans that Ahan often uses, Viper will have no issue either avoiding it or countering it with her fire manipulation altogether

Additionally, I wanna bring up again how Viper can pretty easily catch Ahan off guard. Her sunglasses’ energy beams will most definitely not be something Ahan sees coming. Should Ahan attack Viper if she uses the Focus Attack, Ahan attacks will just be sponged due to the nature of the Focus Attack, causing Ahan to be struck and put into a crumbling state

Ahan’s definitely made a great usage of her abilities, but I honestly think she’ll be overwhelmed by Viper’s skill, mobility, speed, versatility, and overall strength advantage sooner than she can score a win

 

[Maitreya12]

Just a couple of responses, hopefully as to not make the post too long.

Although this is impressive, C. Viper’s agility and fire based attacks would be able to counter this pretty well

How good are C Viper’s fire based attacks? I’m sure she can maneuver just fine but depending on how well her fire based abilities are, Ahan’s ice may be too cold to do much about.

I don’t think C. Viper would have any trouble avoiding this. Aside from the fact that being struck by these attacks are well within her ability to avoid, she has comparable skill to Black Widow, someone capable of easily finding opponents much more skilled than Ahan predictable. It wouldn’t take much effort for Viper to foresee Ahan’s attacks

I’m sure she can maneuver out of most of attacks just fine however the point of those links were more to demonstrate just how overwhelming Ahan can be with her ice based abilities, and since her moves are well enough to be able to even tag martial arts masters such as Mori Jung, I’m also sure Ahan would be able to land a strike on C Viper which would be critical that I will go into more below. Especially since she’s able to land these strikes even while getting beat too.

Two huge things to cover here. First is that the skill gap is pretty wide, and second is that Ahan isn’t resistant to electricity

Ahan’s proficiency in martial arts isn’t at the same level as C. Viper. Just to go over her skillset…
-Viper created her own fighting style called “covert fighting tools”
-She’s an extremely gifted CIA operatives with her high level of efficiency and diligence earning her the nickname “Miss Perfect” among other operatives
-Nick Fury sought Viper out to make her an operative of S.H.I.E.L.D., considering her among “the best”. This is important to note since this would put her among the likes of Black Widow, who is a world-class spy that’s highly skilled in combat and espionage, and has field experience in jobs that can be found in history books. Black Widow has also fought Captain America enough times to read his movements, with Cap being proficient in boxing, judo, aikido, and various other fighting disciplines, utilized a special fighting style with his shield in which he can precisely throw it to strike enemies before it returns to him without failure, and has experience fighting in World War II as well as leading a Task Force against Thanos. Additionally, Hawkeye, who is so skilled that he views teleporting attacks as “so easy to read”, holds Black Widow on high regard and was trained by Cap, who he respects more than anyone he knows. In terms of skill-scaling, Viper scales to these feats above, and Captain America was even impressed with her level of skill

Overall, Ahan isn’t a a bad fighter, but she’s practically a beginner compared to where Viper is

To cover this first part, while I do understand there is a sizable skill difference between the two, I believe Ahan’s capabilities might be being slightly underestimated here as Ahan is skilled enough to accurately predict and counter moves on martial arts masters such as Mori Jung who has been trained in various styles like are Taekwondo from unbelievably skilled fighters such as Ilpyo Park. He’s skilled enough to dodge and evade the movements of Daewi Han, who is capable of going toe to toe with Mori Jin of all of people and is even able to break the arm of Mujin Park, another extremely skilled martial arts master with decades over experience. So the fact that she is able to accurately predict his moves and is able to continue to press him with her ice based powers, is an extremely good skill feat in its own right and leads me to believe that while she would get very much out skilled by C Viper (similarly to how she was extremely out skilled in her match against Mori Jung), she’s at least skilled enough that she should be able to tag and somewhat counter C Viper’s moves, at least to a point where she should be able to land some strikes on her.

Now for the second part I wanted to address. Ahan isn’t resisting electricity in that scan. Based on the panel as well as the expression and pose she’s making, she’s very clearly stunned in that panel. Given just how much electricity Viper utilities herself, that’s gonna be a huge issue for Ahan

Actually she is highly resistant to electricity as in one of the scans I showed earlier it can be seen that she took on a full 1 million volts of electricity (along with a zombie infecting bite too might I add) and was able to get up not hardly 2 seconds later. Only pretending to play dead to get the drop on her opponent. In the scan I showed while Ahan was pierced through, again, she’s just fine from this attack and has demonstrated that she’s perfectly capable of tanking electric based hits and even countering while she’s being electrocuted. So she is actually highly resistant to electricity.

Plus, there’s also the Focus Attack, a non-electricity based attack that would put Ahan into a crumbling state

Why would that be?

Viper would easily be able to avoid the halting technique, given her acrobatics, flight, greater LS, and use of seismic attacks. It wouldn’t be easy to avoid or outright break out of this hold

I’m not so sure about that because in this instance, this is a case where Viper might not be able to predict Ahan’s moves so accurately and could be stunned, giving Ahan an opening to deal a devastating blow. If her opponent is only constantly using ice based capabilities, then a sudden and abrupt shift to things such as earth manipulation might not be so expected much like it was in Mori Jung’s case. While I’m sure she can break out of the earth bind fairly easily, we’ve also been shown that even being momentarily stunned by it leads to devastating results as all these abilities are used in conjunction with one another. So even a sudden, momentary bind can be game ending for C Viper.

The wave of attacks you sent in the scan certainly looks daunting, but for my next response, I’m going to address another reason why this isn’t an issue


Note that Viper doesn’t just have greater mobility. Tapping into X-Factor, all of her stats are amplified, including speed (and she passively heals at the same time in this state). Given speed is equalized in this fight, X-Factor’s easily going to let her out speed Ahan. This along with the aforementioned mobility advantage and the much greater skill advantage would mean Viper can easily overwhelm Ahan

The main problem would be speed as the AP difference between them isn’t that great however as noted before, Ahan is very capable of of dealing with opponents that our speed her. (Which was the case against Mori Jung and that electricity dude from the links I showed earlier), she’s well at using sneak attacks when she makes her opponent think she’s down and is willing enough to freeze her own body to both guard herself and deal damage to her opponent at the same time. She’s also more than capable of conjuring up very large ice structures to guard herself, so getting in close to her is a very risky thing to do and she has more than adequate defenses to herself.

Ahan may resist fire manipulation, but Viper doesn’t solely rely on it, as can be seen in her fighting style. She’s be quick to utilize electricity-based and seismic attacks, including the more powerful EX variants

Both fire and electricity are things Ahan is well resisted to do this point wouldn’t be much to her favor either.

In larger forms, the ice manipulation could be lethal, but in the smaller variants you have provided with scans that Ahan often uses, Viper will have no issue either avoiding it or countering it with her fire manipulation altogether

Ahan is also more than capable of casually bringing about large forms of ice as well, so it would be an even harder thing for C Viper to deal with. Also, her other large wave attacks has a very big range to it as well, with this being the aftermath of the move so her capabilities extend to a good sizable range as well.

Additionally, I wanna bring up again how Viper can pretty easily catch Ahan off guard. Her sunglasses’ energy beams will most definitely not be something Ahan sees coming. Should Ahan attack Viper if she uses the Focus Attack, Ahan attacks will just be sponged due to the nature of the Focus Attack, causing Ahan to be struck and put into a crumbling state

Not gonna lie I’m not too familiar with what this means all too much but I’m sure it is a troubling attack for Ahan to deal with, however, like I said I believe even just one of Ahan’s moves are extremely lethal to C Viper which I think Ahan is just on the cusp of being skilled enough to take advantage of that lethality.

Ahan’s definitely made a great usage of her abilities, but I honestly think she’ll be overwhelmed by Viper’s skill, mobility, speed, versatility, and overall strength advantage sooner than she can score a win

The biggest troubling factor I see Ahan dealing with here is C Viper’s skill and mobility. While C Viper’s stats amp and AP difference is a good advantage to have, because that difference isn’t too grand I think Ahan’s natural defenses and resistances towards C Viper’s moves are a very good mitigating factor for that advantage and due to Ahan’s natural own powers being very dangerous to get close to her, I think that’s another good mitigating factor towards C Viper’s other advantages. Making it so I believe Ahan has just enough capability to land a critical strike more often than her getting overwhelmed in a more prolonged battle.

 

[Lonkitt]

How good are C Viper’s fire based attacks? I’m sure she can maneuver just fine but depending on how well her fire based abilities are, Ahan’s ice may be too cold to do much about.

Viper’s constantly producing giant ass flames with her attacks. I’d recommend opening some of the links on her profile. It should be more than enough to melt her ice

I’m sure she can maneuver out of most of attacks just fine however the point of those links were more to demonstrate just how overwhelming Ahan can be with her ice based abilities, and since her moves are well enough to be able to even tag martial arts masters such as Mori Jung, I’m also sure Ahan would be able to land a strike on C Viper which would be critical that I will go into more below. Especially since she’s able to land these strikes even while getting beat too.

To cover this first part, while I do understand there is a sizable skill difference between the two, I believe Ahan’s capabilities might be being slightly underestimated here as Ahan is skilled enough to accurately predict and counter moves on martial arts masters such as Mori Jung who has been trained in various styles like are Taekwondo from unbelievably skilled fighters such as Ilpyo Park. He’s skilled enough to dodge and evade the movements of Daewi Han, who is capable of going toe to toe with Mori Jin of all of people and is even able to break the arm of Mujin Park, another extremely skilled martial arts master with decades over experience. So the fact that she is able to accurately predict his moves and is able to continue to press him with her ice based powers, is an extremely good skill feat in its own right and leads me to believe that while she would get very much out skilled by C Viper (similarly to how she was extremely out skilled in her match against Mori Jung), she’s at least skilled enough that she should be able to tag and somewhat counter C Viper’s moves, at least to a point where she should be able to land some strikes on her.

Sure, she could tag Mori, but she was clearly struggling to keep up with him in martial arts and had to rely on her abilities

Her abilities may be useful, but when up close and personal against C. Viper? She’s gonna be in a lot of trouble just like in the fight against Mori, especially since she’d be hit with moves that stun her, leaving her wide open to combos

TBH the scans provided are a lot more impressive for Mori Jung and a lot less impressive for Ahan. Mori Jung’s easily avoiding her attacks and momentarily gets tagged, just to shrug it off and keep on trucking

I’d also say it’s a stretch that Ahan straight up predicted his moves. She more so just got sneaky hits in on him. Meanwhile, Mori Jung was dodging and blocking 99% of her attacks

Ultimately, Ahan’s fight against Mori Jung doesn’t speak much to how she would be able to deal with Viper’s moveset

Both fire and electricity are things Ahan is well resisted to do this point wouldn’t be much to her favor either.

Actually she is highly resistant to electricity as in one of the scans I showed earlier it can be seen that she took on a full 1 million volts of electricity (along with a zombie infecting bite too might I add) and was able to get up not hardly 2 seconds later. Only pretending to play dead to get the drop on her opponent. In the scan I showed while Ahan was pierced through, again, she’s just fine from this attack and has demonstrated that she’s perfectly capable of tanking electric based hits and even countering while she’s being electrocuted. So she is actually highly resistant to electricity.

Even with the scans you’ve provided of her dealing with electricity, she still gets stunned and harmed long enough to where she’s left open to follow up attacks

Her resistance to fire is much better to whatever her resistance is against electricity. In a battle like this, I can’t see Ahan putting up with Viper’s electric attacks, and she would ultimately be left very vulnerable


For Ahan, this is far less of a resistance and more of a case of “she didn’t die immediately after being hit by it”. Still good, but arguably not really a resistance, and she’s still pretty vulnerable to it

Why would that be?

It’s on Viper’s page. Whenever an opponent is hit with the Focus Attack, they will always be put into a crumbling state, leaving them vulnerable to attacks. Furthermore, if Viper is attacked during the Focus Attack, she simply sponges the attacks, even if they would be blows that would normally harm her

Point being, if Ahan gets hit with the Focus Attack, she’s a sitting duck

The main problem would be speed as the AP difference between them isn’t that great however as noted before, Ahan is very capable of of dealing with opponents that our speed her. (Which was the case against Mori Jung and that electricity dude from the links I showed earlier), she’s well at using sneak attacks when she makes her opponent think she’s down and is willing enough to freeze her own body to both guard herself and deal damage to her opponent at the same time. She’s also more than capable of conjuring up very large ice structures to guard herself, so getting in close to her is a very risky thing to do and she has more than adequate defenses to herself.

Her use of ice and earth manip here is certainly creative, but there’s two problems with it:

A) Although Ahan resists fire manip, her ice doesn’t. Not only can Crimson Viper’s fire-based attacks melt it, but her damage boosting EX moves and X-Factor, along with her natural AP advantage makes getting through her defences all the move easy
B) Like I pointed out earlier, her sneak attacks aren’t too effective. Viper’s flight makes it far harder for Ahan to nail these attacks, and even if she does, Viper’s LS is greater than Ahan’s own, so she’s definitely be able to just break out of it

Ahan is also more than capable of casually bringing about large forms of ice as well, so it would be an even harder thing for C Viper to deal with. Also, her other large wave attacks has a very big range to it as well, with this being the aftermath of the move so her capabilities extend to a good sizable range as well.

The range Ahan’s got is certainly impressive, but Viper’s got just about the same range herself. Plus, it’s still avoidable

Not gonna lie I’m not too familiar with what this means all too much but I’m sure it is a troubling attack for Ahan to deal with, however, like I said I believe even just one of Ahan’s moves are extremely lethal to C Viper which I think Ahan is just on the cusp of being skilled enough to take advantage of that lethality.

You see the sunglasses Viper always wears? Those shoot energy beams. That’s what that means

Yes, the ice definitely is useful to Ahan, but I admittedly don’t think she’s on the cups of being skilled enough to take advantage of it before Viper takes her out. Remember, along with being more skilled, X-Factor will make her faster than Ahan too. Ahan’s gonna be in a lot of trouble when an opponent both stronger and more skilled than her is suddenly moving faster than her too. Plus, as I’ve mentioned above, has two different and effective methods of putting her into a vulnerable state

The biggest troubling factor I see Ahan dealing with here is C Viper’s skill and mobility. While C Viper’s stats amp and AP difference is a good advantage to have, because that difference isn’t too grand I think Ahan’s natural defenses and resistances towards C Viper’s moves are a very good mitigating factor for that advantage and due to Ahan’s natural own powers being very dangerous to get close to her, I think that’s another good mitigating factor towards C Viper’s other advantages. Making it so I believe Ahan has just enough capability to land a critical strike more often than her getting overwhelmed in a more prolonged battle.

Again I just wanna note the gap between Viper and Ahan in terms of power


C. Viper = Captain America = Iron Man > Hawkeye > Galactus (1.64552679 quettatons)

The difference is more than x2 I’d say

Ultimately, Ahan only really has one really good resistance against Viper, but would still be extremely vulnerable to huge amounts of electricity she commonly uses in battle. Thunder Knuckle and the Focus Attack would leave her open to attacks. Damage Boost and X-Factor would only widen the power difference. X-Factor would lend a speed advantage to Viper’s AP and skill advantages, meaning Ahan wouldn’t be able to put up with her long enough to score a win first. Viper also has a resistance to Ahan’s fire manipulation. Crimson Viper’s LS would also allow her to easily restrain and electrocute Ahan, something she’s done as seen in her Throw attacks. Plus, with Crimson Viper’s much greater agility and flight, she’d be able to get a lot more hits on Ahan before Ahan can pull off something tricky

 

[Maitreya12]

Viper’s constantly producing giant ass flames with her attacks. I’d recommend opening some of the links on her profile. It should be more than enough to melt her ice

Ok I’ve looked through her profile and her various showings to the point where I think I have a better understanding of her capabilities now.

Sure, she could tag Mori, but she was clearly struggling to keep up with him in martial arts and had to rely on her abilities

Her abilities may be useful, but when up close and personal against C. Viper? She’s gonna be in a lot of trouble just like in the fight against Mori, especially since she’d be hit with moves that stun her, leaving her wide open to combos

TBH the scans provided are a lot more impressive for Mori Jung and a lot less impressive for Ahan. Mori Jung’s easily avoiding her attacks and momentarily gets tagged, just to shrug it off and keep on trucking

I’d also say it’s a stretch that Ahan straight up predicted his moves. She more so just got sneaky hits in on him. Meanwhile, Mori Jung was dodging and blocking 99% of her attacks

Ultimately, Ahan’s fight against Mori Jung doesn’t speak much to how she would be able to deal with Viper’s moveset

I agree that she was clearly having major troubles against Mori Jung due to the vast differences in skill levels between them, but I think the fact that she could tag and somewhat counter Mori Jung’s moves gives a solid basis she’s skilled enough to do something similar against C Viper, especially since Ahan is considered a good martial artist in her own right. Which can be shown.

I disagree though that she’d have the same kind of trouble up close and personal with C Viper as she did with Mori Jung. The reason I say this is because C Viper can’t really get “close and personal” to Ahan, it’d be deadly for her. Take this for instance, one of her stun moves linked in her profile involved her hopping on top of one of her opponents and electrocuting them from there. This strategy would not be viable against someone like Ahan because even if she may be skilled enough to be able to land the maneuver on Ahan, coming into direct contact with her is lethal because she can set her own body down to -100 C and has shown that she’s able to counter with her ice moves even while being electrocuted, C Viper doing a move like that towards Ahan could end up being more costly of a maneuver towards her than it would be for Ahan thanks to her electricity resistance.

While again, I understand that Mori Jung did heavily outskill Ahan in their match, I think the fact that she could tag, predict, and kind of counter many of what Mori Jung had to offer speaks volumes towards her level of skill. Especially since it was to the point that Ahan would have won the match had Mori Jung not acquired the fragment piece of Yeoui to defend himself against Ahan’s last attack.

She did have showings where she was able to accurately predict Mori Jung’s moves like here for example where she blocks one of Mori Jung’s oncoming attacks, sending her skidding backwards and leaving him out of her line of sight, but despite that she was able to accurately predict where he was going to be and even able to counter against him. So I do think she does measure up in the skill department at least enough to be able to defend and counter against C Viper in similar ways she did against Mori Jung.

Even with the scans you’ve provided of her dealing with electricity, she still gets stunned and harmed long enough to where she’s left open to follow up attacks

Her resistance to fire is much better to whatever her resistance is against electricity. In a battle like this, I can’t see Ahan putting up with Viper’s electric attacks, and she would ultimately be left very vulnerable

For Ahan, this is far less of a resistance and more of a case of “she didn’t die immediately after being hit by it”. Still good, but arguably not really a resistance, and she’s still pretty vulnerable to it

Not necessarily all the time as shown before, even when being pierced with fire + electricity and while in the midst of being electrocuted she’s still able to counter with her ice based abilities and has shown previously being able to activate her very low temperatures while simultaneously clashing against a million volts of electricity. So I believe Ahan should be able to do the same type of thing against C Viper as she did against Sunny.

Which is another crucial thing that should be noted, Sunny’s electricity goes up to a full million volts. Which is quite high and we can see the impact it has on people with much less resistances to it, so if C Viper’s electricity voltage isn’t going as high as Sunny is able to reach, then it would have an even less impact on Ahan than it did here. Especially since she did so much better than everyone else in tanking those moves I find her resistance to be quite substantial.

It’s on Viper’s page. Whenever an opponent is hit with the Focus Attack, they will always be put into a crumbling state, leaving them vulnerable to attacks. Furthermore, if Viper is attacked during the Focus Attack, she simply sponges the attacks, even if they would be blows that would normally harm her

Point being, if Ahan gets hit with the Focus Attack, she’s a sitting duck

While this may be true and is definitely a notable ability to have in this matchup, I believe I’ve outlined the very real and large danger that presents itself if she gets in too close to Ahan so this focus attack becomes a very deadly double edged sword to use in this fight.

And while C Viper can become faster than Ahan making it so it’s easier to land the focus attack, like I said Ahan is willing enough to freeze her own body to guard itself and deal damage at the same time meaning any followup maneuver that may come from after a focus attack becomes very costly to perform. So it seems like Ahan has a sizable counter to a good bit of what C Viper can do.

Her use of ice and earth manip here is certainly creative, but there’s two problems with it:

A) Although Ahan resists fire manip, her ice doesn’t. Not only can Crimson Viper’s fire-based attacks melt it, but her damage boosting EX moves and X-Factor, along with her natural AP advantage makes getting through her defences all the move easy
B) Like I pointed out earlier, her sneak attacks aren’t too effective. Viper’s flight makes it far harder for Ahan to nail these attacks, and even if she does, Viper’s LS is greater than Ahan’s own, so she’s definitely be able to just break out of it

So for A, interestingly enough Ahan’s ice is somewhat resistant to fire itself as well since this ice is used alongside the fire and the earth in conjunction with each other to make a special kind of metal and weapon as a result from the three brother’s combined powers (which Ahan is borrowing their power from, however she does not have access to this special metal or weapon in this key of her since she only recently acquired her earth and fire based abilities.) But it should still be noted that the ice can be resistant to fire as well.

As for B, I agree with you that Ahan’s sneak attacks aren’t going to be too effective for her in this matchup (since she’s going up against someone that was compared to the literal assassin black widow), I think if Ahan is able to get C Viper with an unexpected and surprise earth hold like the one she did to Mori Jung, it could very well be a game ender for the fight as while I have absolutely no doubt C Viper would be able to break out of the hold fairly easily, even being caught in said hind for even a moment is extremely costly in this fight as just for a reminder, this was the very next panel from when Mori Jung got surprised by that earth hold from before. And we saw how capable and mobile he was in his match against Ahan (while holding a much greater lifting strength advantage against her too), but even getting caught in that grip for even just a second led to substantial amounts of damage to him. Which I think a similar thing can very well happen in the case against C Viper.

The range Ahan’s got is certainly impressive, but Viper’s got just about the same range herself. Plus, it’s still avoidable

You see the sunglasses Viper always wears? Those shoot energy beams. That’s what that means

Noted, I could see that giving Ahan some trouble if she’s unable to put her defenses up in time. Personally I believe C Viper’s seismic shock to be the more trouble move to deal with as that can just come from under Ahan and can act as a more devastating surprise attack as well.

Yes, the ice definitely is useful to Ahan, but I admittedly don’t think she’s on the cups of being skilled enough to take advantage of it before Viper takes her out. Remember, along with being more skilled, X-Factor will make her faster than Ahan too. Ahan’s gonna be in a lot of trouble when an opponent both stronger and more skilled than her is suddenly moving faster than her too. Plus, as I’ve mentioned above, has two different and effective methods of putting her into a vulnerable state


Again I just wanna note the gap between Viper and Ahan in terms of power


C. Viper = Captain America = Iron Man > Hawkeye > Galactus (1.64552679 quettatons)

The difference is more than x2 I’d say

Just to get the AP difference well established, since Ahan is a baseline 1.22 quettatons and C Viper decently upscales from about 1.65 quettatons I’m going to multiply this value by 1.2x to take that scaling chain into account (as I believe that’s what the wiki rules are for the value of an up scaling chain and since the scaling chain in which C Viper upscales from isn’t too vast, I believe it’s a fair value to upscale from),

Making C Viper’s AP baseline (without X factor) just shy of 2.0 quettatons. Now taking her stat amps into account, I could see C Viper reaching about 2.4-2.5 Quetta tons while using them making her just about perfectly 2x Ahan’s AP while having them in play.

I think that’s a fair value to put her above Ahan as the original value she up sales from is only about 1.35x above Ahan originally.

Ultimately, Ahan only really has one really good resistance against Viper, but would still be extremely vulnerable to huge amounts of electricity she commonly uses in battle. Thunder Knuckle and the Focus Attack would leave her open to attacks. Damage Boost and X-Factor would only widen the power difference. X-Factor would lend a speed advantage to Viper’s AP and skill advantages, meaning Ahan wouldn’t be able to put up with her long enough to score a win first. Viper also has a resistance to Ahan’s fire manipulation. Crimson Viper’s LS would also allow her to easily restrain and electrocute Ahan, something she’s done as seen in her Throw attacks. Plus, with Crimson Viper’s much greater agility and flight, she’d be able to get a lot more hits on Ahan before Ahan can pull off something tricky

Personally, the way I see the fight going about, because I believe Ahan has good resistance to extremely high amounts of electricity (1 million+ volts) and is able to continue fighting multiple opponents even while dealing with that electrocution, and seeing how Ahan has very good resistance to heat due to her own powers as well as the fact that the majority of C Viper’s move set deals with getting in very close range against her opponents (a very risky thing to do against someone like Ahan), I see her having just the right amount of tools to be able to take down C Viper before she gets taken down by her.

Ahan’s disadvantage in AP can be mitigated by her various defenses and natural resistances, her overall disadvantage in the skill department can be overcome with Ahan’s lethal moves that cover the entire area of her body, making close quarters combat a very dangerous thing to do while simultaneously dealing with the other areas she’s lacking in against C Viper such as her lower lifting strength advantage, making grappling moves a very unviable action to do against Ahan. I believe Ahan has just enough at her disposal to be able to win the matchup, albeit with a very good bit of trouble on her end. The most dangerous areas I see going against Ahan is the mobility disadvantage and other surprise attacks such as her seismic wave.

 

[Lonkitt]

Ok I’ve looked through her profile and her various showings to the point where I think I have a better understanding of her capabilities now.

I agree that she was clearly having major troubles against Mori Jung due to the vast differences in skill levels between them, but I think the fact that she could tag and somewhat counter Mori Jung’s moves gives a solid basis she’s skilled enough to do something similar against C Viper, especially since Ahan is considered a good martial artist in her own right. Which can be shown.

I disagree though that she’d have the same kind of trouble up close and personal with C Viper as she did with Mori Jung. The reason I say this is because C Viper can’t really get “close and personal” to Ahan, it’d be deadly for her. Take this for instance, one of her stun moves linked in her profile involved her hopping on top of one of her opponents and electrocuting them from there. This strategy would not be viable against someone like Ahan because even if she may be skilled enough to be able to land the maneuver on Ahan, coming into direct contact with her is lethal because she can set her own body down to -100 C and has shown that she’s able to counter with her ice moves even while being electrocuted, C Viper doing a move like that towards Ahan could end up being more costly of a maneuver towards her than it would be for Ahan thanks to her electricity resistance.

Tagging Viper is within Ahan's ability, yeah. I just believe Viper would be able to take her down before the fight can be dragged out

Problem with the body temperature thing though
A) While hopping on top of her opponent and electrocuting them is a method of stunning, its not something Viper has to do. Thunder Knuckle and Focus Attack are moves that leave opponents vulnerable without having to grab them
B) If Viper did use the move where she gets on top of Ahan, she'd likely electrocute her before she had the chance to adjust her body temperature

And regarding being able to use an ice move while electrocuted, that wouldn't apply to the Focus Attack, which puts foes into a crumbling state without the use of elements. Plus, unlike the scan provided, Ahan wasn't struck immediately after being shocked. Viper's definitely gonna follow up with hits no matter which method of stunning she uses

Overall, I think when it comes to electricity, Ahan's in more trouble against Viper than she was against Sunny, since Sunny wasn't in the position to immediately follow up his attack like Viper will be

Additionally, while she did survive the high level voltage, she was still clearly pained greatly. If she straight up no-selled it, then I would agree that Viper's wouldn't be effective. But in this case, I'm more inclined to believe Viper's gonna be hurting her with the electricity

While again, I understand that Mori Jung did heavily outskill Ahan in their match, I think the fact that she could tag, predict, and kind of counter many of what Mori Jung had to offer speaks volumes towards her level of skill. Especially since it was to the point that Ahan would have won the match had Mori Jung not acquired the fragment piece of Yeoui to defend himself against Ahan’s last attack.

She did have showings where she was able to accurately predict Mori Jung’s moves like here for example where she blocks one of Mori Jung’s oncoming attacks, sending her skidding backwards and leaving him out of her line of sight, but despite that she was able to accurately predict where he was going to be and even able to counter against him. So I do think she does measure up in the skill department at least enough to be able to defend and counter against C Viper in similar ways she did against Mori Jung.

Though she was able to counter one of his less predictable attacks, I still think thats not enough to say she would outlast Viper before getting overwhelmed by her skill and speed advantages. Plus, I'd like to bring up once more that Hawkeye considers teleporters to be very easy to predict, and Crimson Viper's more skilled than him

I'll certainly address that Ahan was close to taking that victory, but that isn't something that can be attributed to her skill. The potency of her abilities? Thats another story. But it's not quite a skill feat with how she did that in the scan

And while C Viper can become faster than Ahan making it so it’s easier to land the focus attack, like I said Ahan is willing enough to freeze her own body to guard itself and deal damage at the same time meaning any followup maneuver that may come from after a focus attack becomes very costly to perform. So it seems like Ahan has a sizable counter to a good bit of what C Viper can do.

The problem with that is that the Focus Attack won't be blocked off by the ice like in that scan. It isn't a basic attack as it inflicts the crumbling state. It even does this against opponents who are blocking her Focus Attack. So if Ahan tries to block the attack with ice, it'll be a big mistake

So for A, interestingly enough Ahan’s ice is somewhat resistant to fire itself as well since this ice is used alongside the fire and the earth in conjunction with each other to make a special kind of metal and weapon as a result from the three brother’s combined powers (which Ahan is borrowing their power from, however she does not have access to this special metal or weapon in this key of her since she only recently acquired her earth and fire based abilities.) But it should still be noted that the ice can be resistant to fire as well.

To be fair, that instance of the three elements together had them in massive quantities. I don't thin Ahan's more common, smaller ice-based attacks/defensive variants would put up against huge amounts of flames just as well

As for B, I agree with you that Ahan’s sneak attacks aren’t going to be too effective for her in this matchup (since she’s going up against someone that was compared to the literal assassin black widow), I think if Ahan is able to get C Viper with an unexpected and surprise earth hold like the one she did to Mori Jung, it could very well be a game ender for the fight as while I have absolutely no doubt C Viper would be able to break out of the hold fairly easily, even being caught in said hind for even a moment is extremely costly in this fight as just for a reminder, this was the very next panel from when Mori Jung got surprised by that earth hold from before. And we saw how capable and mobile he was in his match against Ahan (while holding a much greater lifting strength advantage against her too), but even getting caught in that grip for even just a second led to substantial amounts of damage to him. Which I think a similar thing can very well happen in the case against C Viper.

Mori Jung's power seems to come more from what Ahan can do with her abilities rather than her overall skill. Its like being surprised that somebody can utilize incredibly powerful attacks. While its impressive, it isn't necessarily tied to skill. This is consistent with the fight, as Mori was clearly outskilling her, while Ahan managed to keep up with her own skill

Also, Mori's surprise isn't quite as effective here given he's also lesser in LS to Viper. Mori Jung upscales Class Z while Viper is at Class Y. Thats a big enough difference to where Viper isn't gonna be in the same situation as Mori Jung there because its a much greater difference in LS

Personally, the way I see the fight going about, because I believe Ahan has good resistance to extremely high amounts of electricity (1 million+ volts) and is able to continue fighting multiple opponents even while dealing with that electrocution, and seeing how Ahan has very good resistance to heat due to her own powers as well as the fact that the majority of C Viper’s move set deals with getting in very close range against her opponents (a very risky thing to do against someone like Ahan), I see her having just the right amount of tools to be able to take down C Viper before she gets taken down by her.

Ahan’s disadvantage in AP can be mitigated by her various defenses and natural resistances, her overall disadvantage in the skill department can be overcome with Ahan’s lethal moves that cover the entire area of her body, making close quarters combat a very dangerous thing to do while simultaneously dealing with the other areas she’s lacking in against C Viper such as her lower lifting strength advantage, making grappling moves a very unviable action to do against Ahan. I believe Ahan has just enough at her disposal to be able to win the matchup, albeit with a very good bit of trouble on her end. The most dangerous areas I see going against Ahan is the mobility disadvantage and other surprise attacks such as her seismic wave.

I don't think getting up close to Ahan's a risky idea. While Ahan has counter measures, she clearly has trouble against more skilled opponents. Most of her fight against Mori Jung was her playing a ranged game and surprising him with her power. Given C. Viper is already more mobile, skilled, and can become faster, she can certainly land enough blows before Ahan has to chance to use her close-quarters advantages to her fullest. Plus, Ahan tends to go for ice-based defensive measures more commonly, so she'll likely be going with that more often than not

Remember, this all applies to grappling moves as well. Mori Jung and Sunny weren't using those moves on Ahan, but I can definitely see her struggling should a stronger and more proficient opponent uses that against her

While covering herself in ice is a clever decision, C. Viper's fire manipulation, amping abilities, and Focus Attack make it clear she has the means to overcome Ahan's preference for defence and range in the face of close-combat. Plus, as you mentioned, Crimson Viper's seismic attacks would be excellent at catching Ahan off guard and following up from there

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump, lets continue the discussion

 

[Peppersalt43]

Uh, bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[DavidTPPM]

So Ahan upscales 1.218 quettatons. Though I'd like to ask if its just general upscaling or if there's more of a chain

I'm late to the party but she should noticeably upscale above that. She can use the power of all 3 princes who individually scale to 1.218 quettatons. On top of that they also upscale higher.
The 1.218 quettatons feat was performed by base Mori while they all scale to Monkey King Mori.

Ahan = 3 Nataks > 1 Natak ~ MK Mori > base Mori > 1.218 quettatons

Mori Hui using 15% of his monkey King power could increase his level by over 7x (from 6 to 43) and has showings of being directly over 8x and 48x multipliers so it should consistently be far more than 7x boost.

 

[DavidTPPM]

There is a scene where base Hui hits Mandeok with a 48x multiplier and Mandeok easily reacts, then trash talks Mori. But in the very next page Moris 48x multiplier ends and he activates his monkey King mode which allows him to blitz Mandeok and draw blood from him.

So she probably should have the AP advantage and her fear manipulation would most likely work.

 

[SeijiSetto]

So Ahan upscales 1.218 quettatons. Though I'd like to ask if its just general upscaling or if there's more of a chain

Viper upscales 1.64552679 quettatons. In her case, she scales to Black Widow, who scales to Captain America

Captain America = Iron Man > Hawkeye > Galactus (1.64552679 quettatons)

I'm late to the party but she should noticeably upscale above that. She can use the power of all 3 princes who individually scale to 1.218 quettatons. On top of that they also upscale higher.
The 1.218 quettatons feat was performed by base Mori while they all scale to Monkey King Mori.

Ahan = 3 Nataks > 1 Natak ~ MK Mori > base Mori > 1.218 quettatons

Mori Hui using 15% of his monkey King power could increase his level by over 7x (from 6 to 43) and has showings of being directly over 8x and 48x multipliers so it should consistently be far more than 7x boost.

feat's been downgraded to about 48 Ronnatons. CV APstomps now.

 

[Lonkitt]

feat's been downgraded to about 48 Ronnatons. CV APstomps now.

Ah. If Viper happens to AP stomp now, I’ll close this thread