Aeons immeasurable speed remove. (Need staff)

[NARONG_SUVAN]

Let go gambling!

Biggest anti-feat on the room​

Despite on profile saying that Aeons have immeasurable speed they’re lack the crucial part of immeasurable speed.

Aeons (Other than terminus but I will cover terminus later) can’t move backwards in time. In fact this is state many time for various Aeons

Nanook can’t influence event before their birth.

Their is no Nanook before their birth

When you in Past before thier birth Even though you call Lan their can’t meet you because their didn’t exist yet.

Only way Lan can meet you in past before their birth is to change the date of their birth.

When you in Past before thier birth Even though you call Yaoshi their can’t meet you conclusion for this is because they didn’t exist yet.

From example above it’s clear that it’s impossible for Aeons to travel back before their birth or influence event before their birth and they have show no other feat about traveling though time at all.

now about other feat I will debunk its.

Debunk​

Feat 1 : Aha climb to highest branch of imaginary tree

first climb can mean different thing here it’s maybe just metaphoric about Aha ascended though Cosmic Hierarchy or he use some sort of ability to move though branches this doesn’t necessarily mean physically climbing

Also in scan it's literally call this as "parable of the birth of their Aeons" this ia tale tell from masked fool. one of the most unreliable group in the Universe that will do everything for fun including tell makeupstory it’s shouldn't take as literally physically moving.

Even though we believe that this tale is 100% true it’s still unsure whether it’s done by speed or ability.


Feat 2 : Terminus can move backward in time to the past and also move forward in time to the finalityfuture of all things

while it's true that terminus travel backwards in time. we doesn't have any evidence to scale this to another Aeons other than they’re Also Aeons and I already provided evidence that it’s impossible for other Aeons to travel backward in time

it’s Also on Terminus nature of finality to move against time the same can’t be say for other Aeons that represents different concepts.

Conclusion​

Because how vague those feat are including fair amount of anti-feat I suggest to remove immeasurable speed for every Aeons except Terminus.

new speed ratings will be

Massively FTL+ ( Aeons possesses power to travel between stars. Lan can destroyed a planet 62 light years away in a short time frame.), Possibly Infinite ( Akivili implies to be able to reach end point of universe which is infinite in size, the battle between the Aeons effect 2/3 of the infinite number of world. )

 

[Woomica]

Gonna comment later

 

[Woomica]

Let go gambling!

Biggest anti-feat on the room​

Despite on profile saying that Aeons have immeasurable speed they’re lack the crucial part of immeasurable speed.

Aeons (Other than terminus but I will cover terminus later) can’t move backwards in time. In fact this is state many time for various Aeons

Nanook can’t influence event before their birth.

Their is no Nanook before their birth

Thats because he was born after the swarm disaster,i dont know how is this an anti feat but looks interesting

When you in Past before thier birth Even though you call Lan their can’t meet you because their didn’t exist yet.

Only way Lan can meet you in past before their birth is to change the date of their birth.

When you in Past before thier birth Even though you call Yaoshi their can’t meet you conclusion for this is because they didn’t exist yet.

Isnt all this happening in stimulated universe? I dont think this applies to their real entities...Especially knowing that when Meeting IX traiblazer didnt straight up die like they would in reality.

From example above it’s clear that it’s impossible for Aeons to travel back before their birth or influence event before their birth and they have show no other feat about traveling though time at all.

now about other feat I will debunk its.

Debunk​

Feat 1 : Aha climb to highest branch of imaginary tree

first climb can mean different thing here it’s maybe just metaphoric about Aha ascended though Cosmic Hierarchy or he use some sort of ability to move though branches this doesn’t necessarily mean physically climbing

Also in scan it's literally call this as "parable of the birth of their Aeons" this ia tale tell from masked fool. one of the most unreliable group in the Universe that will do everything for fun including tell makeupstory it’s shouldn't take as literally physically moving.

Even though we believe that this tale is 100% true it’s still unsure whether it’s done by speed or ability.

Either Dimensional Travel or Straight flowery language,probably the latter since in explanation it says that they climbed highest peak of the tree of existence and then saw baby fall down.

Feat 2 : Terminus can move backward in time to the past and also move forward in time to the finalityfuture of all things

while it's true that terminus travel backwards in time. we doesn't have any evidence to scale this to another Aeons other than they’re Also Aeons but I already provided evidence that it’s impossible for other Aeons to travel backward in time.

actually he can just have Time travel ability,since he only moves backwards in time and we dont know if he can move in present or future so i doubt he has immesurable speed too.

it’s Also on Terminus nature of finality to move against time the same can’t be say for other Aeons that represents different concepts.

Conclusion​

Because how vague those feat are including fair amount of anti-feat I suggest to remove immeasurable speed for every Aeons except Terminus.

new speed ratings will be MFTL+ with Lan destroyed a planet 62 light years away in a short time frame.

I agree that current immeasurable speed is questionable and that it should be removed,but this is just MFTL+ attack speed feat, iirc there is some way of getting them to infinite speed,but if not you can get them to MFTL+ just by sheer size they have since they can move freely in space,or just use their feat of destroying stuff from afar idk anymore even aeons cant escape the 0 speed feats allegations lol

 

[NARONG_SUVAN]

Thats because he was born after the swarm disaster,i dont know how is this an anti feat but looks interesting

If he have immeasurable speed he can exist before his birth or influence swarm disaster (by traveling back)

Isnt all this happening in stimulated universe? I dont think this applies to their real entities...Especially knowing that when Meeting IX traiblazer didnt straight up die like they would in reality.

simulate universe main purpose (both in narrative and in lore) is to simulate Aeons and analyze them. so I think they should scale to real Aeons.

About IX Traiblazer also have another feat about resisting IX passive I also think in simulated universe Herta can just modify traiblazer power/body to make they more resistant.

 

[Vietthai96]

eh.........................while i agree that HSR Immeasurable speed is very questionable, actually straight up wank, but i don't think these arguments can debunk them, can't influence events in the pasts isn't anti-feat against Immeasurable speed

travelling through time is time travel by default, one need to prove this is done via physical movement (speed) to get Immeasurable speed, move backward in time is the same, moving in an umbrella term that not always mean physical movement, though i can understand people could interpreting this as physical movement

climbed imaginary tree, i already said before that this could be just a metaphor, also climbing it is just dimensional travel since Immeasurable speed require you to treat time as physical distance like how you move through space, you can't get immeasurable speed simply cause you travelled through a hierarchy of dimensions.
also iirc, Otto stated the tree isn't physical entity, but the suppose "tree" is just how HI3rd Otto conceptualized it for other to better understanding how the cosmology work, it is not an actual tree where you can climb it. But idk if HSR contradicted it

 

[NARONG_SUVAN]

I actually doesn’t agree with terminus get immeasurable speed but their feat is so confusing and I want to remove for other aeons firsts.

I also doesn’t want to argue with terminus stan and also just feel lazy when doing terminus part so I just leave it’s half finish

 

[Woomica]

wank

Okay im calling garrixian you are cooked

 

[Woomica]

also iirc, Otto stated the tree isn't physical entity, but the suppose "tree" is just how HI3rd Otto conceptualized it for other to better understanding how the cosmology work, it is not an actual tree where you can climb it. But idk if HSR contradicted it

If that is the case then SoQ would have been conceptualised entity,and all those ststements for worldline,branches,transifinity,absolute wankery infinity wouldnt make much sense,plus a tree like structure also appeared when he used last inch of his power to affect the tree make a branch and create a world where kallen is still alive and happy,HSR just confirmed its existence even more with slighlty different terminology and analogy since its an theory proposed by zandar,plus otto quite litteraly observed other universes on the tree via divine key

 

[NARONG_SUVAN]

can't influence events in the pasts isn't anti-feat against Immeasurable speed

Can you elaborate on this? ( I doesn’t disagree just want to understand immeasurable speed more)

My understanding is immeasurable speed being can travel through time like space but Aeons show they just can’t travel backwards showing that they doesn’t travel in time like they do with space

 

[Vietthai96]

Can you elaborate on this? ( I doesn’t disagree just want to understand immeasurable speed more)

My understanding is immeasurable speed being can travel through time like space but Aeons show they just can’t travel backwards showing that they doesn’t travel in time like they do with space

Immeasurable speed don't require you to be able to influence events in the past or in the future to get the speed rating, it can be a good supporting evidence depend on the scenario, but that it, so unable to influence events in the past or in the future isn't anti-feat that can debunk immeasurable speed. Immeasurable speed only requirement is, you capable of travelling through time like how you normal travel through space, treat time as physical distance......simple as that. And being Immeasurable speed doesn't mean you must be able to influence events in the past or in the future either, it could serve as evidences against Immeasurable speed, but depending on the scenario

If that is the case then SoQ would have been conceptualised entity,and all those ststements for worldline,branches,transifinity,absolute wankery infinity wouldnt make much sense,plus a tree like structure also appeared when he used last inch of his power to affect the tree make a branch and create a world where kallen is still alive and happy,HSR just confirmed its existence even more with slighlty different terminology and analogy since its an theory proposed by zandar,plus otto quite litteraly observed other universes on the tree via divine key

i mean, it is just how he conceptualized the cosmology to be a tree and a sea to better understand how the cosmology work as they aren't actual "tree" and "sea", so the statement climbed the tree isn't mean literally physically climbed a tree, but a metaphor

 

[NARONG_SUVAN]

Immeasurable speed don't require you to be able to influence events in the past or in the future to get the speed rating, it can be a good supporting evidence depend on the scenario, but that it, so unable to influence events in the past or in the future isn't anti-feat that can debunk immeasurable speed. Immeasurable speed only requirement is, you capable of travelling through time like how you normal travel through space, treat time as physical distance......simple as that.

I understand that it’s not required for immeasurable speed and many have immeasurable speed even though they doesn’t have time travel feat.

but if they specifically state that they can’t freely travel though time then you can’t say they capable of travelling through time like how normal travel through space

this is equal to they incapable to step backward in 3d space.

 

[Vietthai96]

but if they specifically state that they can’t freely travel though time then you can’t say they capable of travelling through time like how normal travel through space

well, sometime there are verses with mechanic that disallow for either travel back in time or forward in time, it doesn't really contradict Immeasurable speed, still that depend on the verse to show it though, i don't play HSR so idk

 

[Woomica]

i mean, it is just how he conceptualized the cosmology to be a tree and a sea to better understand how the cosmology work as they aren't actual "tree" and "sea"

Ill check that,i know its confirmed SoQ isnt litteral sea,idk about tree

, so the statement climbed the tree isn't mean literally physically climbed a tree, but a metaphor

I agreed with this already

 

[GarrixianXD]

I personally don’t have an issue with removing Immeasurable speed with the current justification for it. However, climbing to the top of the Imaginary Tree seems like a rather legitimate travel feat to me so that should at least guarantee an Infinite speed rating.

 

[Aernasilver]

So being able to move to the past and future against the flow of time is not immeasurable?

 

[NARONG_SUVAN]

So being able to move to the past and future against the flow of time is not immeasurable?

I don't understand what you trying to say here.

did you talking about terminus? I already cover them in OP

 

[Aernasilver]

I mean your whole thread hinges on if Terminus is immeasurable or not.

The first part with the anti-feat is already covered by Vietthai.

Edit: And before you say it Aeons don’t have a hierarchy so they can scale to one another.

 

[GarrixianXD]

So being able to move to the past and future against the flow of time is not immeasurable?

It is, if the character moves between a temporal dimension like a spatial dimension

 

[NARONG_SUVAN]

read it again i already say why terminus doesn't scale to another Aeons.

anti-feat is not work on its on but it work again Terminus scaling

it's impossible for other Aeons to travel back but not for Terminus

Edit: And before you say it Aeons don’t have a hierarchy so they can scale to one another.

this is not about power level we don't scale IX hax to another Aeons because it's nihility power

travel against flow of time is finality power why would we scale It to another Aeons?

 

[Vietthai96]

So being able to move to the past and future against the flow of time is not immeasurable?

Yes, if it isn't physical movement

 

[NARONG_SUVAN]

I mean your whole thread hinges on if Terminus is immeasurable or not.

my conclusion literally say Terminus keep immeasurable speed what you talking about

 

[Delta333]

travel against flow of time is finality power why would we scale It to another Aeons?

Yea individual Aeon in our wiki is treated like composite versions of all Aeons instead tbh. Time-based ability is straight up the authority of Finality alone.

 

[Aernasilver]

Damn I’m getting 3 different answers lol.

 

[NARONG_SUVAN]

I mean yey because I have like 3 different reason why we shouldn't scale terminus to other aeons.

 

[Aernasilver]

Anyways to summarise:

To get immeasurable for being able to go backwards and forwards against the flow of time you have to physically travel between a temporal dimension like a spatial dimension?

 

[NARONG_SUVAN]

To get immeasurable for being able to go backwards and forwards against the flow of time you have to physically travel between a temporal dimension like a spatial dimension?

Yes

 

[Vietthai96]

Anyways to summarise:

To get immeasurable for being able to go backwards and forwards against the flow of time you have to physically travel between a temporal dimension like a spatial dimension?

I will repeat, either you have statement or contexts that
1. Physically fly through time, to the past and the future, etc..
2. Treat temporal dimension like spatial dimension, and move through temporal dimension like move through spatial dimension

There are some more, but down to their core, they are practically the same meaning, with just different wording

 

[NARONG_SUVAN]

my argument for this is if you can't do 1 you can't do 2 too.

because it's like saying you freely move but then say you can't take a step back it's contradict

but that doesn't matter much Aeons have no feat for 2 or 1 (only Terminus does)

and Terminus doesn't scale to any Aeons

 

[Aernasilver]

I will repeat, either you have statement or contexts that
1. Physically fly through time, to the past and the future, etc..
2. Treat temporal dimension like spatial dimension, and move through temporal dimension like move through spatial dimension

There are some more, but down to their core, they are practically the same meaning, with just different wording

Okay.

So right now we don’t have much info on Terminus but with the info right now is a possibly on the table? I’m not at home right to post it now but one of Finality powers has to do with causality does that help?

No statements of physically travelling but also no statement it’s done via time travel so I’m not sure why people are saying Finality has time powers.

 

[NARONG_SUVAN]

personality i don't think Terminus can travel forward in time. but I don't want to argue much about its they don't even have profiles.

also arguing about phrasing or how you interpret word make my headaches

anyway regardless Terminus current point is they don't scale with other Aeons let focus on that.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I personally don’t have an issue with removing Immeasurable speed with the current justification for it. However, climbing to the top of the Imaginary Tree seems like a rather legitimate travel feat to me so that should at least guarantee an Infinite speed rating.

Seems reasonable approach to me.

But I have read the OP and can agree some of the Immeasurable stuff is questionable.

 

[Weaver261]

Idk much about HSR but HSR world is composed of infinite space time continuums, isn't it? Each star system is four dimensional construct with one temporal dimension. Aeons being 12D, should this enough for immeasurable speed?
Also in the fool's play recording, nanook called his home planet back after ascending which he destroyed in the process of ascending. When nanook was injured, time and space reversed for whatever reason and he fled. Not sure how much of it's based on truth tho

Against the galactic forces that couldn't hold a candle to Them, the Supreme Executioner finally recalled
Their home world where it was ruled by unjust power...
THEY assembled a force of myriad Voidrangers to demand an answer from THEIR past.

 

[NARONG_SUVAN]

Idk much about HSR but HSR world is composed of infinite space time continuums, isn't it?

Each world exists on different space-time continuums but I pretty sure they have clear boundaries and not infinite size (at least speaking from 3D)

Aeons being 12D, should this enough for immeasurable speed?

Eh can you elaborate more? eventhought star system is infinite on size (they not) travel out of them is just infinite speed no? or did I miss something.

fool's play recording

ok firstly I doubt how true that story is its tell from story tellers that have high chances to be masked fool.

second I interpret this as Nanook's legion fought with Aha's masked fool

then Nanook recall that Aha have something to do with Their planet and then they fought.

I can't see it as Nanook literally call their planet back.

 

[Vietthai96]

Finality powers has to do with causality does that help?

No, doesn't help at all, at best it is caudality manipulation for Finality power

Aeons being 12D

Being 12D or 3946492D is irrelevant for speed

 

[Aernasilver]

Cheers. Well that’s all I got.

 

[Vietthai96]

Seems reasonable approach to me.

i mean, it is just how he conceptualized the cosmology to be a tree and a sea to better understand how the cosmology work as they aren't actual "tree" and "sea", so the statement climbed the tree isn't mean literally physically climbed a tree, but a metaphor

 

[NARONG_SUVAN]

i mean, it is just how he conceptualized the cosmology to be a tree and a sea to better understand how the cosmology work as they aren't actual "tree" and "sea", so the statement climbed the tree isn't mean literally physically climbed a tree, but a metaphor

branches of imaginary is really exist as a place you can travel to from databank

This theory describes the various worlds existing in different spacetimes as having a tree-like structure. Every branch is a specific path along which worlds might exist, with every leaf being the marks these worlds have made along the parameter of time

I think branches is timeline and leave is point in time thta growth on branch.

but we doesn't known if distance between those branch are infinite or what ( likely not bebecaus normal space ship can travel between branches/star system)

 

[Vietthai96]

branches of imaginary is really exist as a place you can travel to from databank

I only remember what HI3rd told me, i don't play HSR so.....

 

[Weaver261]

Each world exists on different space-time continuums but I pretty sure they have clear boundaries and not infinite size (at least speaking from 3D)

Yeah, I also mean infinite in quantity, not each's size.

The crown of the tree remains in a dynamic state as it absorbs the masterless Imaginary Energy from the space-time vasculature of the trunk.
- Data Bank

Imagine it! The Imaginary as the start of humanity and the beginning of civilization.
Time flows from the trunk of the Imaginary Tree, like a canopy, splitting out into an infinity of worlds.
- Otto Apocalypse

According to this, imaginary energy flows through the trunk of imaginary tree and causes the splitting of infinite worlds. As shown in Hi3, otto physically splitted a new world by touching the tree (ik it's not a literal tree). The flow of time can't be interfered by any amount of power in proper worlds. But the case is different in the imaginary tree, Otto described the time as data recorded on vinyl. The game server (analogy used by Nagamitsu for Imaginary Tree) can use the already recorded data from any moments in time to generate a new world. This won't be possible unless imaginary tree can treat Time itself as physical object. Otto also said the concept of time in higher dimensional realms are different to each other. So, based on truth or not, Aha climbing the tree is feasible. All aeons should have immeasurable speed since they are made up imaginary energy and scale to the tree.

 

[NARONG_SUVAN]

The flow of time can't be interfered by any amount of power in proper worlds. But the case is different in the imaginary tree, Otto described the time as data recorded on vinyl. The game server (analogy used by Nagamitsu for Imaginary Tree) can use the already recorded data from any moments in time to generate a new world. This won't be possible unless imaginary tree can treat Time itself as physical object.

while I don’t doubt that time is physical object in Imaginary tree (after all it’s higher dimensions) but that still only grant them time manipulation and doesn’t relate to speed like.. at all.

Because it’s doesn’t matter how they treat time. What matter here is “can they travel though time like it’s space?” (With sheer speed)

So, based on truth or not

This should be our main focus Aha feat is very flowery and unclear