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Addressing Roshi's Feat

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'Fraid some people took issue with the AP section of the calc. Speed portion is fine tho.
 
Are the issues cause of how you got to the result, or because of the result itself?

Although the speed being fine is good news.
 
LordTracer said:
Are the issues cause of how you got to the result, or because of the result itself?

Although the speed being fine is good news.
Click to expand...
Nah, it's mostly due to the wonky pixel-scaling apparently.
 
In any case, at least people won't have issues with Roshi being 5-C being an outlier anymore.

Now comes the tough part: SCALING AND PROFILE EDITING.
 
Well, to give my take on scaling:

Should 100% scale
  • Roshi (he has the feat, so duh)
  • King Piccolo
  • Goku (King Piccolo Arc and 23rd Budokai)
  • Piccolo Junior
  • Kami

Could possibly scale
  • Tenshinhan (22nd Budokai; I believe Roshi stated that Tenshinhan was stronger than him. 23rd Budokai; should either scale if his 22nd Budokai self scales, or if the Turtle School students scale)
  • 22nd Budokai Goku (Scales to Tenshinhan)
  • Yamcha and Krillin (23rd Budokai; their profiles claim Roshi stated that they surpsssed him, but the link is dead. So them scaling depends on if someone can find that scan)
  • Tao Pai Pai (Cyborg Tao; only if 23rd Budokai Tenshinhan scales)
 
KLOL506:

You can ask some calc group members for help to make the calculation accurate via private messages if you wish.
 
Antvasima said:
KLOL506:

You can ask some calc group members for help to make the calculation accurate via private messages if you wish.
Click to expand...
Dargoo already seems to have joined the conversation and agrees with what M3X said in the blog (Wonky pixel-scaling and whatnot), so the feat is prolly left best at 5-C via overcoming the Moon's GBE IMHO.

Attack speed is fine tho. Speaking of which... Piccolo's Beam needs a speed calc as well, I think Damage made one using the anime timeframe a few pages back in this thread.
 
Damage3245 said:
If we go from when Piccolo starts firing the beam at the Moon (at 00:28:47) to when he stops and the Moon starts being affected (at 00:32:02), since we don't actually see when the beam hits the surface of the Moon, then we could gave a timeframe of about 4 seconds, which gives us a speed of 96,100,000 m/s or 32% the Speed of Light.
Click to expand...
Here be the calc that Damage made, but I got one issue with the 4 second timeframe- we should assume that the beam stopped right when it disappears from the screen, which just so happens to be at 00:31.52, so that's around 3.05 seconds worth of traveling timeframe.

384,400,000 meters / 3.05 seconds = 126,032,786.9 m/s or 42.04% the speed of light.

DBZ Kai takes about the same amount of time, within the 3-second range.
 
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Okay. I suppose that 5-C seems like the best result to use then.

However, if the relevant blog will be used for accepted speed scaling, we need to insert a (REJECTED) and an (ACCEPTED) tag to the energy and speed calculations respectively.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. I suppose that 5-C seems like the best result to use then.

However, if the relevant blog will be used for accepted speed scaling, we need to insert a (REJECTED) and an (ACCEPTED) tag to the energy and speed calculations respectively.
Click to expand...
I'm not an admin so I can't edit the blog anyway, so feel free to do so if you wish.
 
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Okay. Can you link to it here please?
 
Would you like me to edit the blog to reflect that we are using GBE of moon? Or is there some other procedure that needs to be done?
 
OK, I have updated the Blog to use GBE of the moon, and speed was fine according to everybody, so everything should be in order. We can probably apply this now since the only contended point was if we should use KE or GBE.
 
That should be fine to apply then.

Have you figured out how the scaling for all the affected Dragon Ball characters should look?

It will likely be a lot of work to properly apply this change to all of them.
 
Please remember to carefully read through and follow the instructions in our Common Editing Mistakes page, so no badly structured edits are made, and extensive cleanup work will not be necessary.

If you change the statistics for any characters, also remember to update the tier categories at the bottoms of the profile pages.
 
LordTracer said:
Well, to give my take on scaling:

Should 100% scale
  • Roshi (he has the feat, so duh)
  • King Piccolo
  • Goku (King Piccolo Arc and 23rd Budokai)
  • Piccolo Junior
  • Kami

Could possibly scale
  • Tenshinhan (22nd Budokai; I believe Roshi stated that Tenshinhan was stronger than him. 23rd Budokai; should either scale if his 22nd Budokai self scales, or if the Turtle School students scale)
  • 22nd Budokai Goku (Scales to Tenshinhan)
  • Yamcha and Krillin (23rd Budokai; their profiles claim Roshi stated that they surpsssed him, but the link is dead. So them scaling depends on if someone can find that scan)
  • Tao Pai Pai (Cyborg Tao; only if 23rd Budokai Tenshinhan scales)
Click to expand...
Don't forget Drum for possibly scaling since he craps on 22nd Budokai Tien.
 
Mr.Cinos15 said:
Don't forget Drum for possibly scaling since he craps on 22nd Budokai Tien.
Click to expand...
I’ll be honest, I forgot that King Piccolo had kids other than Tambourine and Junior.

Yeah, Drum should scale if 22nd Budokai Tenshinhan does.
 
KLOL506 said:
Here be the calc that Damage made, but I got one issue with the 4 second timeframe- we should assume that the beam stopped right when it disappears from the screen, which just so happens to be at 00:31.52, so that's around 3.05 seconds worth of traveling timeframe.

384,400,000 meters / 3.05 seconds = 126,032,786.9 m/s or 42.04% the speed of light.

DBZ Kai takes about the same amount of time, within the 3-second range.
Click to expand...
Also Piccolo's beam speed will need a proper calc as well, y'all can use this. Here's the feat on watchframebyframe

Beam starts at 00:28.47 seconds and finishes reaching the moon at 00:31.52. We concluded that this should be fine to use for both the DBZ manga and anime since the beam reaches the moon in the same exact way as the manga.
 
Well, as far as the first part of Dragon Ball goes, I think

Roshi: At his max power would be solid moon level and sub-rel+.

22nd Tournament Tien: should keep his current ratings physically and "possibly moon level" and "possibly sub-rel+" should be added because of Roshi's statement that Tien might have won if the fight continued (it is still unclear from his tone). While Tien with his Kikoho should be Moon level because it was clearly said to be stronger than the Kamehameha.

22nd Tournament Goku: should have the same ratings as Tien, except he wouldn't scale to kikoho.

Yajirobe: should have the same ratings as Goku as he was comparable to Goku.

Drum: should have the same ratings as Tien, except he wouldn't scale to kikoho because Tien never used it on him. I don't think Tambourine would scale because he defeated a tired Goku and got stomped later.

King Piccolo, Piccolo Jr., Popo, Kami, 23rd Tournament Goku and Tien: They would be solid moon level and at least sub-rel+.

23rd Tournament Krillin and Yamcha: I couldn't find the statement where Roshi said that they surpassed him. So they'll probably just upscale from Tao Pai Pai unless that statement exists.

The speed of characters in the second part will depend on Piccolo's calc when that is accepted.
 
Roshi’s calc is only 1.01x away from baseline Relativistic, so couldn’t those faster than him upscale to that? Maybe Old King Piccolo could just be ‘At least Sub-Relativistic+,’ but could Young King Piccolo and everyone that scales to/above him be Rel?
 
Would this affect the scaling of characters in the Saiyan saga as well?
 
Okay. Then this does not seem as complicated as I thought.
 
For the record I agree with @LordTracer , since if Roshi was only 1.4% faster he would be relativistic, those who scale above him should just be relativistic since they would logically be more than 1.4% faster if they can completely outmaneuver him. I would start the Relativistic speed with Old King Piccolo, whom Roshi thought he had no chance against even if he teamed up with Tien.

Also, here Goku confirms his speed and power don't even begin to compare to Old King Piccolos when he is serious, despite Goku surpassing Roshi.

 
I suppose that upscaling the speed levels seems to make sense.
 
AKM sama said:
Depending on the Piccolo's speed calc, it could end up changing the speed of characters up to Freeza saga as well.
Click to expand...
Fortunately, considering Piccolo's Beam takes roughly 3 seconds to reach the moon from Earth in both the anime and in DBZ Kai, that wields 41% the speed of light (Relativistic).
 
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That makes sense, yes.
 
AKM sama said:
Well, as far as the first part of Dragon Ball goes, I think

Roshi: At his max power would be solid moon level and sub-rel+.

22nd Tournament Tien: should keep his current ratings physically and "possibly moon level" and "possibly sub-rel+" should be added because of Roshi's statement that Tien might have won if the fight continued (it is still unclear from his tone). While Tien with his Kikoho should be Moon level because it was clearly said to be stronger than the Kamehameha.

22nd Tournament Goku: should have the same ratings as Tien, except he wouldn't scale to kikoho.

Yajirobe: should have the same ratings as Goku as he was comparable to Goku.

Drum: should have the same ratings as Tien, except he wouldn't scale to kikoho because Tien never used it on him. I don't think Tambourine would scale because he defeated a tired Goku and got stomped later.

King Piccolo, Piccolo Jr., Popo, Kami, 23rd Tournament Goku and Tien: They would be solid moon level and at least sub-rel+.

23rd Tournament Krillin and Yamcha: I couldn't find the statement where Roshi said that they surpassed him. So they'll probably just upscale from Tao Pai Pai unless that statement exists.

The speed of characters in the second part will depend on Piccolo's calc when that is accepted.
Click to expand...
So going off of this, with the statement about Krillin and Yamcha being taken into account, I think good justifications would be:

Tenshinhan
AP - At least Large Building level, possibly Moon level (Master Roshi stated that Tenshinhan might have defeated him if their fight continued), higher with Kikoho (Stated to be stronger than the Kamehameha) | Moon level (Stronger than before. Fought with an unweighted, but casual Goku)
Speed - Hypersonic+, possibly Sub-Relativistic+ (Kept with Master Roshi and possibly would’ve defeated him) | Relativistic (Faster than before. Kept up with a very casual Goku)
Key - 22nd Budokai | 23rd Budokai

Goku
AP - At least Large Building level, possibly Moon level (Fought on par with Tenshinhan) | Moon level (After drinking the Ultra-Divine Water, he was able to match King Piccolo and ultimately kill him by plowing through his torso) | Moon level (Much stronger than before. Surpassed Kami and fought on par with Piccolo Jr)
Speed - Hypersonic+, possibly Sub-Relativistic+ (Comparable to Tenshinhan) | Relativistic (Faster than before. Kept pace with King Piccolo) | Relativistic (Even faster than before)
Key - 22nd Budokai | King Piccolo Saga | 23rd Budokai

Yajirobe
AP - At least Large Building level, possibly Moon level (Comparable to Goku after the 22nd Budokai)
Speed - Hypersonic+, possibly Sub-Relativistic+ (Kept up with Goku)

Drum
AP - At least Large Building level, possibly Moon level (Overpowered Tenshinhan)
Speed - Hypersonic+, possibly Sub-Relativistic+ (Easily kept up with Tenshinhan)

King Piccolo
AP - Moon level (Much stronger than Master Roshi. Goku stated that his power doesn’t even begin to compare to him) | Moon level (Much stronger than before)
Speed - Relativistic (Faster than Master Roshi. Goku stated that his speed doesn’t even begin to compare to him) | Relativistic (Much faster than before)
Key - Old | Prime

Piccolo Jr.
AP - Moon level (Defeated Kami and fought on par with Goku during the 23rd Budokai, although he was ultimately defeated)
Speed - Relativistic (Comparable to Goku)

Mister Popo
AP - Moon level (Significantly stronger than a post-Ultra-Divine Water Goku, and trained the Z-Fighters for the Saiyan invasion)
Speed - Relativistic (Could initially move faster than Goku)

Kami
AP - Moon level (Significantly stronger than Mister Popo. Stated to be superior to King Piccolo. Superior to Shenron, as he is his creator. Said that he would’ve put up a better fight against Piccolo Jr if he hadn’t borrowed a weak body)
Speed - Relativistic (Faster than King Piccolo and Mr. Popo, and can react to attacks from a casual Piccolo Jr)

23rd Budokai Krillin
AP - Moon level (Stated by Master Roshi to have surpassed him)
Speed - At least Sub-Relativistic+ (Faster than Master Roshi)

23rd Budokai Yamcha
AP - Moon level (Stated by Master Roshi to have surpassed him. Despite suffering a crushing defeat from Kami, the latter praised his technique)
Speed - At least Sub-Relativistic+ (Faster than Master Roshi)

Raditz, the Saibamen, the Saiyan Saga Z-Fighters and Piccolo would all get bumped to ‘At least 5-C’ and whatever speed value the Piccolo calc gets.
 
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