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Then the ability from Aliex X should probably be removed.
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That's one of the things that I'm trying to say. Thank you for your answerYou just need to be infinitely bigger than it in one of the many ways fiction imagines qualitative superiority.
That's one of the things that I'm trying to say. Thank you for your answer
Yes, so if a character mathematically infinitely larger than a 3D structure this character should take HDE. I meant that too.If you contain a 4D structure, you're probably 4D (some exceptions exist), but if you contain just a 3D structure as infinitely small thing, then you are not necessarily 4D. You just need to be infinitely bigger than it in one of the many ways fiction imagines qualitative superiority.
Yes, this is AP alone, but along with what I said, it also qualifies for HDE.This is attack potency
Actually, all of what I talked about should be considered together, but in short, I explained it wrong.;-; you said "or" which indicate that it has no relevance to the second instance, but I will drop it and say myself, you misspoke.
This is a first I am hearing about it, so we are not equating it to other forms?snip.
my example up above is when you are uncountably infinite larger than a 3-D space, that is indeed giving an extra dimensional axisYou can be larger than n-dimensional space in many ways, not all of them are having more dimensional axis
The HDE page is for entities that are higher-dimensional in a proper mathematical sense, not simply for all Tier 1 beings/constructs, so neither of these three criteria qualify.
The page isn't for realms for a start. But that aside, the same.This is true for beings and constructs but what about a particular space such as a realm?
Anything else would not be higher dimensions in any sense of the word, though. And it ultimately would just be a physical tier. The entire page would become pointless as we would need to remove most content form it on grounds that it generally doesn't apply to the users. Just makes no sense to handle it that way.This is a first I am hearing about it, so we are not equating it to other forms?
By this, tons of profiles will lose their HDE.
In my opinion, i think we should not make the HDE page to pertain to only maths and physics
Not necessarily. In fiction you can be larger than stuff in many ways, not all of the involving higher dimensions. Like... any kind of higher plane stuff, basically, where the lower plane is just reduced to some insignificant thing.my example up above is when you are uncountably infinite larger than a 3-D space, that is indeed giving an extra dimensional axis
The page isn't for realms for a start. But that aside, the same.
We do not need to remove any content, we just find things that equates to 4D even though it is not in Mathematical or Physics sense.Anything else would not be higher dimensions in any sense of the word, though. And it ultimately would just be a physical tier. The entire page would become pointless as we would need to remove most content form it on grounds that it generally doesn't apply to the users. Just makes no sense to handle it that way.
A bulk of pages probably a quarter of the pages with HDE are HDE based on statements that says "They are Higher Dimensional" without further contexts as to how. And based on your comment, the characters must be HDE in the mathematical sense to be given HDE.And that we don't give HDE to beings that are not higher-D isn't new, so I'm not sure why any pages would need to be revised, unless they were created against current standard.
So things like this also do not qualify for HDE without context of it being of an extra axis?Not necessarily. In fiction you can be larger than stuff in many ways, not all of the involving higher dimensions. Like... any kind of higher plane stuff, basically, where the lower plane is just reduced to some insignificant thing.
there is no direct statement of anyone calling him Higher Dimensional, none of the Ainur did, the R>F you must be referring to the music used for creation, I will add that to it but it does not matter since R>F will also not qualifyNumber 3 - eru, this is wrong. He is explicitly referred as higher dimensional as well as in the sense of low 1-C and r>f transcendence combined
The HDE page is for entities that are higher-dimensional in a proper mathematical sense, not simply for all Tier 1 beings/constructs, so neither of these three criteria qualify.
I think we are misunderstanding each other, I mean to say that right now unless this thread goes through, R>F will not qualify for HDEHow it comes r>f transcendence is not a good side evidence? You are making no sense right now.
Just curiousAnd that we don't give HDE to beings that are not higher-D isn't new, so I'm not sure why any pages would need to be revised, unless they were created against current standard.
Pretty sure it's from embodying the 4D multiverse doe.4. Arceus and the creation Trio from Pokemon also have just " Higher-Dimensional Existence," and this is based on creating the multiverse
I'm not an expert in japanese, but most likely you have to interpret it based on the context.oh I see! I understand it’s not for a realm but how can I know if a realm is higher dimensional? I have been having a bit of trouble trying to get a point across, I thought it was straight forward. For instance:
if a realm is stated numerously to be a higher dimension using kanji that imply it is in a mathematical sense ( “ko jigen” for instance) would you consider that realm a 4-D realm?
First, there is no such thing as being higher D by nature of ontology. Dimensions are a strictly mathematical thing.We do not need to remove any content, we just find things that equates to 4D even though it is not in Mathematical or Physics sense.
What I mean by that is that even if a character is Higher D by nature of Transcendence or Ontology, they are still Higher Dimensioned regardless.
3 and 4 are perfectly legitimate, if creation they contain refers to at least the timeline. Meanwhile 6. doesn't even proof being physically any tier and 1. has the usual "transcendence" problems mentioned in the Tiering System FAQ. 2. Is also so vague that I don't think it would qualify for even evidence of being Tier 2.So to clarify, as 3D we have 3-axes (Height, Length and width) to be given the HDE, you need to be of an extra axis? or stated to have it or shown to have it?
A bulk of pages probably a quarter of the pages with HDE are HDE based on statements that says "They are Higher Dimensional" without further contexts as to how. And based on your comment, the characters must be HDE in the mathematical sense to be given HDE.
Let me give you some examples
1. Mammoth from Sonic he has just " Higher-Dimensional Existence," no explanation but I am thinking it is cause he has a statement that says he transcends space and time
2. Mori Dan from GOH, he has " Higher-Dimensional Existence (4-D - Exists in a place where space and time overlap, and can oversee all of creation from this realm),"
3. Eru IIuvatar from LOTR he has just " Higher-Dimensional Existence" and that is because he is responsible for creating the universe through music which is a form of R>F and also holds the whole creation within his mind
4. Arceus and the creation Trio from Pokemon also have just " Higher-Dimensional Existence," and this is based on creating the multiverse
5. Sinbad from Magi " Higher-Dimensional Existence," this is based on the fact that there is an author and fiction difference between Gods.
6. Shinra from Fire Force "Higher-Dimensional Existence (Is the true god of all of creation in the verse, even greater than The Evangelist.)" The Evangelist is a being who is called someone from a higher plane and this is even though there is no qualitative difference in the series.
So now these are just a few of the examples and there are many more, Some of these have HDE just based on them creating the universe or R>F or just based on a statement calling them Higher D alone and there are many more like that, all these are Higher D in their own rights but not in the mathematical sense. So yes if this revision does not go through half of the HDE on the profiles will be revised.
Containing a timeline would be fine, as a timeline is 4D.So things like this also do not qualify for HDE without context of it being of an extra axis?
And lastly things like
1. Containing timelines or being a timeline would be HDE?
2. Statements like "We humans cannot understand xoxoxo since he is a Higher Dimensional Being" will not qualify without more context to make it in mathematical sense?
The explanation sounds like plausible Higher D to me, but that is in isolation. I know nothing about the verse's context and stuff.Just curious
Should these beings not have higher dimensional Existence ?
The profile is missing some scans as his profile is still under crt regarding higher dimensional and is being evaluated and handled by Sir Ovens.1. has the usual "transcendence" problems mentioned in the Tiering System FAQ. 2. Is also so vague that I don't think it would qualify for even evidence of being Tier 2.
There is no point and the Staff Discussions are strict now that normal users need to go through a lot to reply thereI feel this is a proper material for staff discussion
No I am missing nothing to quote the part you linkedThe profile is missing some scans as his profile is still under crt regarding higher dimensional and is being evaluated and handled by Sir Ovens.
What it is missing is mostly scans that refers to higher dimensions. I believe Pain is unaware of this crt so it shouldn't be used as an example here as it lacks further context as to why he gains HDE
nothing here suggest mathematical dimensions, besides it is derailingHe IS a higher dimensional being. This part was never in question. However, he's NOT 5D. You can have HDE and be 4D. You can see past, present, and future, AND STILL BE 4D.
Tell me what makes the tablets "snapshots" using actual evidence from the story and not using a bunch of unrelated moments to string a theory that the tablets might be whole 4D space times. Even saying it out loud sounds absurd, like why would Xanzang have multiple timelines of the exact same events that are happening in the single timeline we're reading about? At the very best assumption, each tablet is a moment in the past and Mori grabbing one projected himself like Xanzang did during his fight against Satan.
You want to know why Satan said Mori was a higher dimensional being? Because he was being protected by one. Otherwise Mujin would've been a higher dimensional being the moment he became Supreme God.
Do I have to tear this argument apart further or can we start thinking rationally?
I think I should clarify better, I am not saying that there is a literal Higher D by nature of Ontology, I am saying it can be equated but you clarified why it is not so in the later posts, so I will concede on that point.First, there is no such thing as being higher D by nature of ontology. Dimensions are a strictly mathematical thing.
Based on this, R>F and Ontology cannot work, so Let me argue for the nature of size. It is nothing long, just tell me what you think about it.Second, yes we would need to remove the content because it just doesn't apply. We can't say "the character has an additional directional axis through which its body expands" anymore, because that's not true for characters that don't fulfil the actual mathematical properties of dimensions.
We couldn't have the pseudo-invulnerability, because lower D attacks don't necessarily interact with just crossections anymore, as we don't know the geometry of the beings then.
We couldn't have pseudo-teleportation, as we don't know if they can move through a space with additional dimensional axis.
Basically all of the explanations the page gives would not apply to them anymore, as the characters would not be described by subsets of cartesion products of the real numbers etc.
By generalizing it like that, you take basically everything away except what comes with the tier itself, which makes the page pointless. We don't need a page for a character having physical Tier 1 stats, the stats clarify that already.
bumpsnip
Note: The Higher-Dimensional Existence is for Objects and Entities that are Higher-Dimensional in a proper mathematical sense i.e. the regular 3-Dimensional axis + 1 or more dimensional axis. The following will not qualify for this criteria
1. Viewing 3-Dimensional objects, entities or constructs as fiction; Viewing something as fiction does not mean your body has an extra dimensional axis, as the beings are still portrayed as regular 3-Dimensional beings, they are just 'more real'
2. Holding ontological difference over 3-Dimensional objects, entities or construct; Most times this is a measure of power and will not equate to having an extra dimensional axis
3. Stated to be larger than or contain 3-Dimensional objects, entities or construct; there are numbers of ways fictions portrays infinitely larger than a 3-Dimensional construct but not all of it would mean an extra dimensional axis; being uncountable infinite larger than a 3-Dimensional construct or something similar will mean qualitative superiority as fictions tends to portray it as so, but without further contexts, it should not mean an extra-dimensional axis
4. Stated to be Higher Dimensional or a Higher Plane or a Higher Existence; without further contexts that shows it to be in the virtue of them having an extra dimensional axis to 3-Dimensional entities or objects.
5. Stated to be Extra-Dimensional; the literal meaning of this is an entity or object that comes from outside the regular 3-D space,; this does not mean these entities or objects have an extra dimensional axis in contrast to 3-Dimensional objects, without further contexts.
6. Stated to transcends space or transcend space and time; there are lots of ways a character can transcend without having an extra-dimensional axis or in relation to the geometry of the Object.
Dread this is a staff thread, please get permission before you comment.Your draft, Pain, is worse than DT's. However, I do not agree with points 4 and 5, and I believe this thread requires more attention from the staff members.
Since people often dismiss context or categorize it as "insufficient."
As for point 6, it is entirely unnecessary since the FAQ already covers it.
an additional spatial axis, is the enough context, anything not that is not enoughMind eloborating in your part what is "not enough context" in point 4 and 5?
it is not the final draft, there will still be a few argumentAlso your draft needs a hell of rework,
Get permission and then you can.I am not sure if we are going to implement a draft where they capatlise Object or Construct? Ya, no offense, but I could lend you an assistance in fixing this draft.
According to who? I am really curious to know why adding limitations to the context.an additional spatial axis, is the enough context, anything not that is not enough
I am gladit is not the final draft, there will still be a few argument
I never knew this is a staff discussion, but hey, why not helping my best friend here? Because it is awful to see the draft with this capatlisations.Get permission and then you can.
You were the one who made the thread on it being a rule violation to comment on a staff thread without permission
Cause there are tons of ways to be of higher dimensional without an extra axis in fiction, so yes the burden of proof falls on whoever is trying to say it is in terms of geometryAccording to who? I am really curious to know why adding limitations to the context.
lies, it is literally in the title and i told you twice, Read your draft in contrast to mine and it losts a lot of important contexts, so I will go with mine and edit the grammar when the thread is done.I never knew this is a staff discussion,
Dread stop, you will get reportedYou mean a lot of redundancy and the unnecessary usage of words? Ya, I agree
If you don't take criticism, it's fine for me but no need to mark comments you don't like as derailment.
Also, you still did not elaborate what is reason of choosing context you like and limit others?
Also may I understand what is the reason for not equating the likes of number 4 and 5 the same we equate r>f transcendence to qualitative superiority?