Additions to Low 1-C Dormammu's write-up

[LordTracer]

He was definitely not Cyclops level for several years, Scott harmed him literally once, in Uncanny X-Men Vol. 3 #6, and it was with his full power blasts that are High 6-C.

On that note, Modern Dormammu is High 6-C at the bare minimum, since Hood with Dormammu’s essence (although he couldn’t control the power) could fight off the Avengers, Doctor Strange, Daimon Hellstrom and others at the same time in New Avengers #54.

 

[Confluctor]

I believe there is an extra context involved with the Cyclops shenanigans.

But yeah, what tracer said about his justification seems fine to me

 

[Eseseso]

So will modern Dormammu be like: "At Least High 6-C, likely up to 2-A" for his power being enough for Hood (who couldn't even fully control it) to fight the likes of Dr. Strange and Daimon Hellstrom, who can both go up to 2-A IIRC?

 

[LordTracer]

Probably, idk. Modern Dorm needs a lot more discussion before we make a profile for him.

 

[Eseseso]

Probably, idk. Modern Dorm needs a lot more discussion before we make a profile for him.

Ok, it's just that (as I said before) I just wanted to know since a new feat for Dr. Doom is absorbing a sizable portion of his power.

 

[Confluctor]

Leave out the high 6-c stuff. I think impress wanted to make some changes to him later in the future.

 

[Antvasima]

Doctor Strange and Daimon were not portrayed as anywhere near tier 2-A when Bendis wrote them, and Dormammu was treated as an easily defeated ongoing joke after the Giffen/DeMatteis Defenders run and before the recent "Final Annihilation" story, in which he was upgraded to at least 4-B. He was once beaten by the Howling Commandos as well, and did far worse against Galactus than even Gladiator managed to do, and was easily defeated by Doctor Strange, Wong, and a few others in an urban level fight, all in stories written by Mark Waid.

 

[Confluctor]

The last one most definitely is lacking context. Strange was amping them and it wasn't a physical battle. Its just Gladiator knew how to counter his energy beams and use his own strength against him. And he died moments later.

 

[Antvasima]

Gladiator managed to significantly harm a Galactus that had powered up a lot more after his "fight" with Dormammu. A weaker Galactus didn't even notice when Dormammu attacked him, and ate him as a snack. And the peak power level after a lot of energy absorption for this storyline's Galactus, was merely to destroy a single universe, and he died in the process.

 

[Confluctor]

Not really true. Since moments before, he absorbed an amped black bolt who messed with his entire being. The only thing Gladiator even did was move his face a little, and that was because of the damage Black Bolt's energies did to him. Plus, there was likely a huge amp by Doc Strange as he did to Black Bolt. And he died when Galactus regained his composure.

In any case, I don't know see how his lower showings are relevant here. Especially since they make sense context wise.

 

[Antvasima]

He made Galactus spit blood with a single strike, and Black Bolt also managed to do far more damage to Galactus than Dormammu did. I don't understand why you are being so stubborn and argumentative here. It is logically blatant that Dormammu was portrayed as a completely low-powered pushover in this storyline. Brian Bendis, Mark Waid, and others, have deliberately destroyed the character.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/cKg992EzhZ0kfnFTfyuUS90rrsMcvwZ6MSAUt5IIcBvBRJwuU2XCTESFe5FS3ZgeJKIGyPeFK92UXQZVx20871lxNOLSR9sjQKU42L9J4M3OEC5U660LaaTcYnjKt0gzCsVSuFduQw=s0

 

[Confluctor]

I am not trying to be argumentive, I am just saying, within context, it makes perfect sense. But either way, let's leave it behind because we are never gonna agree on this story.

 

[Antvasima]

How the heck does Dormammu doing absolutely zero inconvenience to Galactus, whereas Black Bolt and Gladiator damage him at a far more powerful point, possibly make sense, especially when the story was handled by a writer who has sought to belittle Dormammu at every chance he has received?

 

[Eseseso]

How the heck does Dormammu doing absolutely zero inconvenience to Galactus, whereas Black Bolt and Gladiator damage him at a far more powerful point, possibly make sense, especially when the story was handled by a writer who has sought to belittle Dormammu at every chance he has received?

To be fair, Galactus did kind of cheat by absorbing Dormammu's energy and just winning like that, which isn't really the same as fighting him head-on.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose, but the comparative power levels of this story were all over the place.

 

[Eseseso]

I suppose, but the comparative power levels of this story were all over the place.

Maybe we could say that modern Dormammu goes up to a 2-A because his power greatly amped a well-fed Galactus, and Galactus seemed like he'd rather absorb his energy then face him at full power head on?

 

[Antvasima]

Galactus in this story only had enough power to destroy a single universe, and that was after absorbing a lot of energy first.

 

[Eseseso]

Galactus in this story only had enough power to destroy a single universe, and that was after absorbing a lot of energy first.

But wouldn't he scale to the usual well-fed Galactus, since well-fed Galactus's feats (almost destroying infinite universe while fighting Scrier and the Other, as well as killing a Mad Celestial) are also modern?

 

[Antvasima]

Galactus is very inconsistent in power level depending on the writer, much like most other Marvel characters, and the Scrier/Other fight was his greatest raw power feat without the Nullifier that I know of.

 

[Eseseso]

Galactus is very inconsistent in power level depending on the writer, much like most other Marvel characters, and the Scrier/Other fight was his greatest raw power feat without the Nullifier that I know of.

Not to mention that whole "killing a Mad Celestial" business, since it was confirmed by the writer that Mad Celestials = Normal Celestials in power.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but Celestials are also extremely inconsistent from writer to writer.

 

[Eseseso]

Yes, but Celestials are also extremely inconsistent from writer to writer.

I mean, one of the reasons a well-fed Galactus is a 2-A on his profile is due to him killing a Mad Celestial without much difficulty.

 

[Eseseso]

But regardless, can we just already add the accepted stuff for Dormammu?

For his 2-A section: Dormammu was confident that with his powers channeled through the body of Doctor Strange, he could beat The Goddess, who was powered by the Cosmic Egg at the time, which was made from 30 Cosmic Cubes and "far greater than the sum of its parts, and this is also heavily implied by both Strange himself and the narrator.

For his Low 1-C section: "Although he was inferior, Dormammu’s weakest incarnation was able to hold his own against Eternity, with the clash threatening to destroy them both."

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe, but wasn't the cosmic egg portrayed as stronger than Eternity? Also, Starlin simply portrayed the Infinity Gauntlet as level Low 2-C as far as I recall.

What do the rest of you think?

 

[Eseseso]

Maybe, but wasn't the cosmic egg portrayed as stronger than Eternity? Also, Starlin simply portrayed the Infinity Gauntlet as level Low 2-C as far as I recall.

What do the rest of you think?

The image link I have above heavily implies that it is weaker than Eternity, as someone (I forget who) asks about what if someone like Eternity or the Living Tribunal intervenes, heavily implying that Eternity is above the Egg.

If you have any evidence that Eternity is below the egg then please post it, because if so then it is just another addition to Dormammu's Low 1-C entry and further proof why Classic Dormammu >= Eternity.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the Cosmic Egg in "Infinity Crusade" was composed of dozens of merged together cosmic cubes, and just 5 of them were enough to render Eternity catatonic in the previous story by Jim Starlin ("Infinity War").

 

[Eseseso]

Well, the Cosmic Egg in "Infinity Crusade" was composed of dozens of merged together cosmic cubes, and just 5 of them were enough to render Eternity catatonic in the previous story by Jim Starlin ("Infinity War").

To be fair, Infinity varies from 2-A up to Low 1-C.

It relies on context IMO to decide which level Eternity is on in which story.

And as much as I'd love for the Cosmic Egg to be >> Eternity, the story heavily implies otherwise.

Unless the Cosmic Cubes get upgrade to a "possibly Low 1-C" for rendering Eternity Catatonic, then we need outside support to determine this.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I obviously agree about that the power levels are very inconsistent, even between the same writers.

 

[Eseseso]

So since there is no real disagreement about the 2-A and Low 1-C additions to Dormammu's profile (for now), can I add the additions to Dormammu's profile?

If so, I would need for the page to be unlocked.

 

[Antvasima]

I think so, yes. Is that fine with the rest of you?

 

[Eseseso]

Anyone?

 

[Antvasima]

So since there is no real disagreement about the 2-A and Low 1-C additions to Dormammu's profile (for now), can I add the additions to Dormammu's profile?

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @Tllmbrg @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @The_Impress @Confluctor @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame

What do you think?

 

[Eseseso]

Anyone? Please?

 

[Eseseso]

B U M P

 

[Firestorm808]

Sorry. Haven't had time to do further research on this topic.

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps it would help if you summarise/explain the conclusions here so far and the reasons for them in a single post?

 

[Eseseso]

Perhaps it would help if you summarise/explain the conclusions here so far and the reasons for them in a single post?

Sigh OK then.

1. Another reason for Dormammu being at least 2-A (which should thus be added to the 2-A part of his write-up) is that not only was Dormammu confident that with his powers channeled through the body of Doctor Strange, he could beat The Goddess, who was powered by the Cosmic Egg at the time, which was made from 30 Cosmic Cubes (which are all well above Celestials) and is "Far Greater than the sum of its parts", but this was also hinted to in the story by Strange himself and the story itself was implying this.

As we all know, a single Cube is a 2-A (for now), and the Cosmic Egg is >> 30 Cosmic Cubes, so an easy 2-A feat for classic Dormmammu.


2. For the Low 1-C section of Dormammu's entry, the iconic battle between his weakest incarnation and Eternity should be added, since not only is it iconic to Dormammu's classic character, but it is also one of the main reasons that his classic incarnation is considered an Eternity level being (instead of Eternity's write-up just saying that he is "comparable to Dormammu")

Even though his weakest incarnation was heavily implied to be weaker than Eternity when they fought, Dormammu still held his own (and was disintegrating Eternity's substance), and the fight threatened to kill them both.

 

[Antvasima]

1. Another reason for Dormammu being at least 2-A (which should thus be added to the 2-A part of his write-up) is that not only was Dormammu confident that with his powers channeled through the body of Doctor Strange, he could beat The Goddess, who was powered by the Cosmic Egg at the time, which was made from 30 Cosmic Cubes (which are all well above Celestials) and is "Far Greater than the sum of its parts", but this was also hinted to in the story by Strange himself and the story itself was implying this.

As we all know, a single Cube is a 2-A (for now), and the Cosmic Egg is >> 30 Cosmic Cubes, so an easy 2-A feat for classic Dormmammu.

2. For the Low 1-C section of Dormammu's entry, the iconic battle between his weakest incarnation and Eternity should be added, since not only is it iconic to Dormammu's classic character, but it is also one of the main reasons that his classic incarnation is considered an Eternity level being (instead of Eternity's write-up just saying that he is "comparable to Dormammu")

Even though his weakest incarnation was heavily implied to be weaker than Eternity when they fought, Dormammu still held his own (and was disintegrating Eternity's substance), and the fight threatened to kill them both.

Thank you.

@C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @Tllmbrg @Elizio33 @LordTracer @The_Impress @Planck69 @Confluctor @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame

What do you think about this?

 

[Catzlaflame]

Thank you.

@C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @Tllmbrg @Elizio33 @LordTracer @The_Impress @Planck69 @Confluctor @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame

What do you think about this?

I’m not as aware of the context as I would like to be to comment here but i suppose this should be fine as long as we add the note Lordtracer mentions for the low-1C, like what was noted here:

For his Low 1-C section: "Although he was inferior, Dormammu’s weakest incarnation was able to hold his own against Eternity, with the clash threatening to destroy them both."

Also something should be done about this

We don't use What Ifs, that should be written somewhere.

Would this work as an addition under the Notes section for the Marvel Page:

Please do not use What-if issues for scaling as they are showings of how the story would have transpired if certain events had not occurred or occurred differently in the main storyline, and thus would not be cannon to the continuity

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the reply.

Something like this might be acceptable to use as a note in our Marvel and DC Comics instructions page, yes.

"Please do not use "What If" or "Elseworlds" stories for scaling to the main Marvel and DC Comics timelines, as they are not canon, and the power levels of characters recurrently differ greatly from the main continuities."