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Zero way that second to last new message is real 
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Adding plot manipulation resistance to Yogiri.
- Thread starter Azertyhuuh
- Start date
- Status
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bro thats vzearr's sock
Astral_Trinity439
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are we fr getting a vsbw version of Burger King customers placing their orders while in McDonaldZero way that second to last new message is real
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Alrighty, I am back so time to address everything
@Duedate8898 (Comment)
@ActuallySpaceMan42 (Comment)
This was accepted as possibly resistance to Fate Manipulation
Now let's address the other arguments.
It's quite natural for a new member to not understand what fundamental aspects are, what they entail and what's necessary to argue for them so I won't blame you but I really hope you stop being ignorant of the standards, and actually read them for once and then formulate an argument. If you have trouble understanding just make a Q&A and ask it or dm a mod.
Firstly let's establish something
Plot Manipulation is not the same as Resistance to Plot Manipulation
However there's a self evident correlation between both, in order to gain Resistance to Plot Manipulation one must demonstrate feats or at least have statements describing their inherent resistance to Plot Manipulation.
What the previous thread did wasn't merely removing the Resistance to Plot Manipulation but rather removing Plot as a fundamental metaphysical aspect from the verse.Like I said before ignorance isn't a bliss, I recommend reading the contents of a thread and not just the title.
Also I am not getting the whole “Umm actually I am arguing for Resistance and not Plot Manipulation” when the Resistance was the part that got nuked
TLDR; In order to get Resistance to Plot Manipulation Plot must be established as a fundamental metaphysical aspect.
You are essentially arguing that someone resists Info-2 or CM-1 when CM-1 or Info-2 doesn't even exist in the verse, like what ?
Hence this sarcastic comment;
Let's start with defining what Plot Manipulation is because a lot of people don't understand it.
So I fail to see how Yogiri being able to "kill” the Q&A section implies anything here aside from being a very explicit fourth wall break. I really hate beating up a dead horse but I have no choice before this spirals so let's actually address this feat shall we ?
The entire argument boils down to this:
Believe me when I tell you that this is a miniscule amount of the total number of characters that have 4th wall awareness/Break and not Plot Manipulation despite having wayy better feats and now I would like to address something.
Furthermore you yourself agreed that characters in the novel have feats resembling this nature which is tantamount to saying that this is nothing more than a mere gag.
Whew that's ⅔ of everything time to finish up with the actual argument.
Quite unfortunate that the page doesn't have the outdated label and that no-one bothered to nuke this but sure I can always nuke this later…
Let's have the staff judge this and obviously for any translation issues we can summon Raiki to help clarify.
Let's address this whilst we are at it shall we ?
TLDR; Plot as a metaphysical aspect doesn't exist, the statement meant to give Yogiri his resistance as pointed out by Elizhaa is under contention, Neechan wa Chuunibyou profiles are outdated and the verse having plot is under contention in the first place. The Q&A is useless. That's all I will leave it up for staff to decide. also expect a surprise for making me waste nearly an hour of my precious time
Firstly the OP itself is attempting to regurgitate an argument that has been thoroughly addressed and rejected. The entire foundation/premise of the thread prior to the edit was a mere reiteration of something that was rejected in an earlier CRT by the likes of @Mr. Bambu (Comment)
@Duedate8898 (Comment)
@ActuallySpaceMan42 (Comment)
This was accepted as possibly resistance to Fate Manipulation
Now let's address the other arguments.
As far as I know you are correct about that but again Japanese is a language where the interpretation relies on the entire text as such nitpicking and isolating words and arguing isn't really the best.
It's quite natural for a new member to not understand what fundamental aspects are, what they entail and what's necessary to argue for them so I won't blame you but I really hope you stop being ignorant of the standards, and actually read them for once and then formulate an argument. If you have trouble understanding just make a Q&A and ask it or dm a mod.
Firstly let's establish something
Plot Manipulation is not the same as Resistance to Plot Manipulation
What the previous thread did wasn't merely removing the Resistance to Plot Manipulation but rather removing Plot as a fundamental metaphysical aspect from the verse.Like I said before ignorance isn't a bliss, I recommend reading the contents of a thread and not just the title.
Also I am not getting the whole “Umm actually I am arguing for Resistance and not Plot Manipulation” when the Resistance was the part that got nuked
TLDR; In order to get Resistance to Plot Manipulation Plot must be established as a fundamental metaphysical aspect.
You are essentially arguing that someone resists Info-2 or CM-1 when CM-1 or Info-2 doesn't even exist in the verse, like what ?
Hence this sarcastic comment;
Somehow this has been the best argument and it doesn't even qualify for Plot Manipulation.
Let's start with defining what Plot Manipulation is because a lot of people don't understand it.
If the page failed to make it explicitly clear that Plot Manipulation is reserved for users that can manipulate Plot in a verse where Plot is a fundamental aspect that determines reality then I shall reiterate that again by directly quoting the Plot Manipulation Page itself.
So I fail to see how Yogiri being able to "kill” the Q&A section implies anything here aside from being a very explicit fourth wall break. I really hate beating up a dead horse but I have no choice before this spirals so let's actually address this feat shall we ?
The entire argument boils down to this:
Now let's list some similar cases like this shall we ?
Characters often make such statements to prolong the gag but we both know that Yogiri can't meaningfully affect the Q&A section as a fictitious character. Often times many characters make such threatening statements and sometimes some even follow up but in no way are those anything beyond a fourth wall break.
Furthermore you yourself agreed that characters in the novel have feats resembling this nature which is tantamount to saying that this is nothing more than a mere gag.
Now let's put this to rest shall we ?
Yogiri destroying the QnA is pretty similar to:
.jpg)
They realise they're a character in a series
Hence breaking the fourth wall
[edit]
It's not a fallacy here, what you are describing is Whataboutism which isn't applicable here because no-one is answering anything rather people are comparing two similar cases with the similarity being relevant here and arguing via an example, if you think that's inherently fallacious you are more than welcome to debate me on that and we can let the staff decide.
I am sorry, what ? Do you genuinely believe that whenever a character breaks the 4th wall they enter our actual world ? In the Daily Life of the Immortal King Donghua, Wang king also went to a space outside his Donghua resembling our world as part of his story. Every fourth wall break is still inherently part of the narrative and the story that's why it's a gag.
Whew that's ⅔ of everything time to finish up with the actual argument.
Now these are some really compelling arguments from sukuna but they were already addressed by Dao in the previous thread which no-one bothered to read so let me paraphrase Dao once again (Poor guy leaves and everyone starts wanking)
Quite unfortunate that the page doesn't have the outdated label and that no-one bothered to nuke this but sure I can always nuke this later…
Let's have the staff judge this and obviously for any translation issues we can summon Raiki to help clarify.
Let's address this whilst we are at it shall we ?
"Let me see, how to explain it..." Yuri pondered."To say that it's a story is more a figure of speech...Have you ever heard of the anthropic principle?"
Speaking of that let’s finish off with some Translation stuff and arguments;
This is further proof of Plot not existing as a fundamental aspect but I assume there's some TL issue so I suggest getting Raiki to TL it.
Also I don't need to do that to argue against this CRT, what's written on the profiles isn't dogmatic or Axiomatic in any way shape or form, one can appeal to a profile yes and in order to change its contents I would need to make a CRT but I don't need to make one to nitpick every single flawed logic used in this CRT.
TLDR; Plot as a metaphysical aspect doesn't exist, the statement meant to give Yogiri his resistance as pointed out by Elizhaa is under contention, Neechan wa Chuunibyou profiles are outdated and the verse having plot is under contention in the first place. The Q&A is useless. That's all I will leave it up for staff to decide.
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Repeat that
Mbpoops
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Well written
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Ay, u gotta do what u gotta do to get a crt verifiedZero way that second to last new message is real
Jepilstiltskin
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Which is why I said he isn't completely wrong for using it. I mean, we're getting into technicalities here, but that shit is indeed listed on the profile.
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Yo i'm actually so tuff with these replies
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For real, though, don't try to advertise other threads in a CRT. Not only is it irrelevant for the thread, it is also heavily frowned upon. (Possibly even rule-breaking)
SO yeah, just don't do it again. If you want staff to take a look at it, try asking nicely with a link on their message wall.
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Aight my bad jit. Didn't know
But why tho, why aint it okay, jst asking
But why tho, why aint it okay, jst asking
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I feel like you aren't getting my point, this isn't a VS battle thread, it's fine to appeal to a logic used for indexing a certain ability in a profile. I am 100% fine with that and similarly to argue against said profile or to remove said ability from said profile I would need to make a CRT. That's not what I am arguing against, I am saying that I can argue against this CRT and the logic used here without having to make another CRT. You don't need to debunk or remove abilities from another profile in order to argue against the logic presented in said profile in another CRT as far as I am aware of, especially since said profile is outdated but yea I agree no point in arguing over this.
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Derailing also disrespectful towards the OP, as far as I know there's like a thread where you can advertise your CRT's I recommend going there.
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Hello.
I'm here to issue an official warning.
Please refrain from posting non-serious or disruptive comments, especially in threads like this that are already somewhat prone to getting heated, as it only worsens the discussion. You have also made a similar post before on a different thread that was removed by staff, so please stop doing this going forward.
Thank you.
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The biggest issue is that no-one bothers reading the standards or the pages and instead flex their ignorance like it was promised to them 3000 years ago (Apologies if this sounded rude it wasn't directed towards you or anyone else in this thread)
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I have also deleted several of your posts as they are off-topic.
Please promote your thread in the appropriate place instead:
Content Revision Promotion Thread
This thread can be used to link to discussions in the content revision forum regarding changes to verses or profiles, so that they may be seen and evaluated by staff members without the need of contacting them individually. In the event that posting the revision here fails to obtain enough...
Or do it some other way that isn't about derailing a thread just for promoting a different content revision thread.
Jepilstiltskin
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Noted, sorry...
sukuna171
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Dao arguments aimed at a worldview holder aren’t usable as they come from unbeatable demon lord which is no longer cannon anymore
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Even if they aren't usable, As pointed out by Elizhaa the very statement that gives Yogiri this resistance is under contention, furthermore I see no evidence within the works of instant Death that establishes Plot as a Metaphysical aspect. Not only that even in the Neechan wa Chuunibyou series I am looking at quotes that seems to contradict plot being a Metaphysical aspect let alone establish it and even then Aoi isn't a worldview holder so I fail to see the argument behind Yogiri getting Resistance to Plot Manipulation.
sukuna171
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I mean, Yuichi can survive a nuke despite being only human in terms of durability because he’s the protagonist, and even if the protagonist goes up against someone at a star level, they still have a chance of winning due to being protagonist.
Mbpoops
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This sounds like medaka box levels of writing
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That doesn't mean that it's plot Manipulation and not Fate Manipulation or something like Supernatural luck(Look at looney Tunes characters) although if you argue Plot Manipulation just for this guy then I would be able to see it, I wouldn't necessarily agree but arguing that Yogiri somehow gains resistance because of this contradicts him having plot Manipulation. Also keep in mind that Plot is a metaphysical aspect just like CM-1 or Info-2 which requires extensive evidence.
sukuna171
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Call me silly if this sounds dumb, but if Yogiri can kill anyone in the Fujitakaverse, that should include Yuichi, even though he’s protected by plot.
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Chapter 22: I unintentionally ended up feeling moe
I have to run, I have to run, I have to run.
Only such things kept going around in my head. However, my body would not listen at all. Once I recognized that, I could not divert my consciousness away, and I was only continuously exposed to fear. That was a dead end. It was the destination where all fates arrive, and beyond that, there was nothing. The end of everything had taken the form of a human there. Precisely because it is the end, it is the one that stands until the very last. No one can go beyond it.
Against such a being, things like fate or scenario are not even worth being called nonsense. It is an existence for which even thinking about trying to fight is foolish.
Just by thinking that it wants to kill, the opponent dies.
When I first heard it, I thought, what nonsense. I thought it only looked that way because of the overwhelming difference in ability.
That ability probably has some sort of mechanism. If I analyze and examine it, I should be able to devise countermeasures, and if I make full use of Aoi’s ability, I thought it would somehow work out.
That is
a dead end.
The destination where all fates arrive beyond that point, there is nothing.
I have to run, I have to run, I have to run.
Only such things kept going around in my head. However, my body would not listen at all. Once I recognized that, I could not divert my consciousness away, and I was only continuously exposed to fear. That was a dead end. It was the destination where all fates arrive, and beyond that, there was nothing. The end of everything had taken the form of a human there. Precisely because it is the end, it is the one that stands until the very last. No one can go beyond it.
Against such a being, things like fate or scenario are not even worth being called nonsense. It is an existence for which even thinking about trying to fight is foolish.
Just by thinking that it wants to kill, the opponent dies.
When I first heard it, I thought, what nonsense. I thought it only looked that way because of the overwhelming difference in ability.
That ability probably has some sort of mechanism. If I analyze and examine it, I should be able to devise countermeasures, and if I make full use of Aoi’s ability, I thought it would somehow work out.
That is
a dead end.
The destination where all fates arrive beyond that point, there is nothing.
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That's a leap in reasoning then because when Plot isn't established as fundamental but rather more akin to Fate, Yogiri is stated to be the end of all Fate with Plot explicitly not being mentioned
Then I am more inclined to believe that it's just standard Fate Manipulation from the Main Character and Yogiri as a result of being the end of all Fates can kill him. Seems like the most coherent reasoning and exactly the conclusion established in the prior thread.
sukuna171
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plot might be out the window, but his translation does support my opinion on Yogiri Nep, though that’s a topic for another time.
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With that completely nuking the only "evidence" he brought, I think it's safe to say we can close this now.
sukuna171
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Since worldview holder is fate based and the power of fate manipulation can control causality, does that mean fate and causality are intertwined?
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- Thread starter
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This is incorrect. The discussion was intended to remove Plot Manipulation from Yogiri. The issue is not here; the real issue is that the text explicitly states that things like fate and plot are nothing more than a joke in front of him. Ignoring the context and assuming that “plot” equals “fate” is a clear denial of both concepts and effectively dismisses and misrepresents the author’s intent, since the author distinguishes between plot and fate. If they meant the same thing, there would be no need to mention both separately every time. Again, the arguments are different.
The official translation does indeed state that fate and the plot are nothing more than a joke in front of him. This specific text was discussed in a Sweet Dao thread, and it was accepted and the translation was corrected.
Respect yourself; it would be better for you. You are saying I am a new member and don’t understand plot manipulation?? There are people outside this forum whose experience exceeds that of any member here in this community. It doesn’t matter when I joined; experience is not measured by membership duration.
The thread Dark opened was already incorrect from the start because Aoi was not a worldview holder in the first place, while Dark assumed she was, which led to these errors and the controversy. Aoi only possesses an ability similar to those of worldview holders. True worldview holders are the ones who actually manipulate the plot, and this has been proven within the community through multiple posts. What Dark did was a major mistake stemming from a lack of experience with Instant Death. Of course, Aoi’s ability is not plot manipulation and has nothing to do with it, but he treated her as if she were a worldview holder, which led to interpreting plot manipulation as fate and other incorrect assumptions. Aoi is not a worldview holder at all; her ability was only similar, as clarified by Sweet Dao, the author, and Elizhaa in their statements. Therefore, Dark’s thread is completely wrong based on this. He used a character who has nothing to do with plot manipulation but only an ability resembling it, in order to deny plot manipulation as a metaphysical aspect of the story, because he misinterpreted it as fate or something similar—an error that caused the entire situation to become chaotic.
We know the meaning of plot manipulation, so stop with these comments that are only meant to make us look ignorant and to present yourself as the only expert here.
The mysterious space has nothing to do with this topic, and I will open a separate thread about it someday.
I like how you speak with confidence as if you were an expert.
I never said that breaking the fourth wall means entering our real world. Of course it is not our actual world; it is only a version of it inside the narrative of the work. However, it still remains a narrative gag because it presents the character as if they are entering our world, or in some cases characters become aware that they are fictional and talk to the audience. All of this is simply fourth-wall breaking.
As for the “mysterious space,” for the last time, it is a space that exists outside all novels, and from this space anime, stories, and novels can be created, etc. It is part of the official narrative and not just a comedic gag. It is explicitly described as a space, meaning it is a distinct place that exists outside all novels. You have no evidence that it is fourth-wall breaking. And if you go back to talking about Wang Ling and those other characters, I will not respond to you.
Also, I already told you that the mysterious space is not relevant to this topic.
I don’t know why I feel disgusted by your tone.
I told you not to try to make us look like fools or act as if you and Sweet Dao are the only smart ones here. Whether he left or not wouldn’t have changed anything. Try to calm down and tone down your language a bit.
I don’t see anything proving that, apart from some random comments that aren’t even related to the issue in the first place.
If you object to Yuichi Sakaki having plot manipulation, then you can open another thread to remove it. Otherwise, don’t derail the topic.
This is proof that Dark’s claim is incorrect, as I already explained to you in this comment.
We already have the official translation for it.
If you object to Yuichi Sakaki having plot manipulation again, you can open another thread to remove it. Otherwise, stop derailing the topic.
The novel Neechan wa Chuunibyou is part of the Fujitakaverse, and the Fujitakaverse is a shared setting where all novels are connected and characters can meet, as they exist within the same cosmology. What is happening here applies across the same setting. Therefore, since Yuichi Sakaki has plot manipulation, and plot manipulation is still present and established within the Fujitakaverse, you do not have the right to dispute it here. If you want to challenge it, you can open another thread, because discussing approved content already present in profiles in this thread is not acceptable, as that counts as derailment and direct disruption of the discussion. That is my position.
Try to stay calm and reduce the intensity of your wording and the way you’re putting others down here. It’s true I joined here about six months ago, but that doesn’t mean I’m a beginner or anything like that. I’ve been discussing and understanding these things even 7 years ago, including classification systems and how they work. There are also people outside this community who are intelligent, and even people smarter than everyone here, so there’s no need for that kind of tone.
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Well imo Fate, Causality and Time are intrinsically connected. I am ignorant on the wiki standards but I can give my opinion and an explanation if that's what you wanted ?
Causality is just the relation between events where one event causes another
[Cause] ----> [Effect]
Time is what's enables an event (cause) to create an event(effect) to be more precise time is the dimension or along which events are ordered enabling us to distinguish between cause & effect.
These two are intrinsically connected now Fate is just destiny/future which basically entails manipulation of events at a future point (x) in time.
It's kinda like Yhwach who can manipulate causality because of Fate Manipulation.
Umm you can essentially achieve the same affect ig but Plot Manipulation is more versatile and "potent" in a sense with lesser counters.
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I really think he has fate manip, but iirc its already there on his profile lul.
Zanesucksatlife
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I am seeing a lot of comments like this despite not using a single vulgar language whereas you have said stuff like this
Gyazo
gyazo.com
I never credited myself as knowledgeable, idk about Dao but from my personal judgement he is knowledgeable. I cited the Plot Manipulation Page not my personal words. If you deem yourself knowledgeable then try arguing why your character fits the criterion rather than putting your ignorance on display ? If someone is being ignorant I will call them as such. I never slandered you for being ignorant not meant it in such way, All I did was ask for evidence.
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All concerns about OTL and Translation issues has been handled here;
Adding plot manipulation resistance to Yogiri.
Zero way that second to last new message is real 💔
If you didn't want to discuss the mysterious space then don't bring it up or don't address it, I replied to specific quotes and messages. If I didn't Quote you then it wasn't meant for you.
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Furthermore you are one to talk about staying "calm" when you have repeatedly targeted a fanbase, made accusatory & unfounded remarks about them, called people "idiots" and even straight up lied about others in an attempt to defame them.
Quote me saying one singular thing that I lied about or used purely as an insult. Take your words to your heart.
Yet you continue arguing something that isn't supported by the standards. I judge based on what I am seeing, I am not omniscient. Again argue why he meets the standards, I clearly quoted it and even explained it for you. I never attacked you or used your ignorance as a means to defame you but I genuinely recommend reading the standards.
sukuna171
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By the way, shouldn’t Togiri have some form of fate manipulation rather than just fate resistance?
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I think it's like a passive Fate Manipulation Resistance (Heck I would argue for some sort of Immunity on a good day)
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