Adding plot manipulation resistance to Yogiri.

[Azertyhuuh]

Quick topic regarding adding plot manipulation resistance to Yogiri’s profile.

It is stated in both the novel and the manga that he transcends everything and that nothing exists beyond him, and it is also mentioned that things like fate and plot are nothing more than a joke in his presence.

It was a dead end. The destination of all fates, beyond which there is nothing. The end of everything in human form. It is precisely because it is the end that it stands until the end. No one can go further than it. Before this thing, fate, the plot, and the like must be a joke.

それ は 袋小路 だっ た。 　 全て の 運命 の 行き着く 先 で あり、 そこ から 先 には 何 も ない。 全て の 終わり が そこ で 人 の 形 を 取っ て い た。 　 それ は 終焉 で ある から こそ、 最後 まで 立っ て いる 者 だ。 何者 も それ より 先 に 行く こと など でき は し ない。 　 そんな 者 を 相手 に、 運命 だの、 筋書き だの 戯れ言 にも なら ない"

Based on this, I think he should have plot manipulation resistance added to his profile.

Note: The character Yuichi Sakaki is the protagonist of the novel Neechan wa Chuunibyou, which shares the same Fujitakaverse. This protagonist possesses plot manipulation abilities, and the events of the novel revolve around him and plot manipulation. Yuichi Sakaki is, in fact, an embodiment of the plot itself.

---

Agree:
Disagree: @Reiner04
Neutral:

 

[MSahla]

Looks okay at first glance.
筋書き“Sugijaki” does indeed means Plot/Script.

I know japanese a lil bit

 

[Reiner04]

I was asked to tag knowledgable staff members for their opinion.

@Elizhaa @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Dereck03 @Your Mom

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

S0 let me get this straight: you want to regain the lost abilities without adding anything new? This single scan was nuked in my earlier CRT.

"It was a dead end. The destination of all fates, beyond which there is nothing. The end of everything in human form. It is precisely because it is the end that it stands until the end. No one can go further than it. Before this thing, fate, the plot, and the like must be a joke.

それ は 袋小路 だっ た。 　 全て の 運命 の 行き着く 先 で あり、 そこ から 先 には 何 も ない。 全て の 終わり が そこ で 人 の 形 を 取っ て い た。 　 それ は 終焉 で ある から こそ、 最後 まで 立っ て いる 者 だ。 何者 も それ より 先 に 行く こと など でき は し ない。 　 そんな 者 を 相手 に、 運命 だの、 筋書き だの 戯れ言 にも なら ない"

So yeah, you are repeating arguments, and adding nothing new to what was debunked...


Old votes regarding this argument being debunked (staff only)
@Mr. Bambu (Comment)
@Duedate8898 (Comment)
@ActuallySpaceMan42 (Comment)

So yeah, this can be closed, no new arguments or scans are being presented, which proves plot is a metaphysical/fundamental aspect of the verse, and instead just exaggerated Fate manipulation.

 

[Hecky2222]

Instant Death genuinely needs discussion rule. Posting "debunked" arguments again and again without debunking "debunks" is absolutely low-effort ngl.

It should be common sense for any verse and ID isn't exception.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

S0 let me get this straight: you want to regain the lost abilities without adding anything new? This single scan was nuked in my earlier CRT.

So yeah, you are repeating arguments, and adding nothing new to what was debunked...


Old votes regarding this argument being debunked (staff only)
@Mr. Bambu (Comment)
@Duedate8898 (Comment)
@ActuallySpaceMan42 (Comment)

So yeah, this can be closed, no new arguments or scans are being presented, which proves plot is a metaphysical/fundamental aspect of the verse, and instead just exaggerated Fate manipulation.

This is something completely different. I opened a topic to add plot manipulation resistance, not to restore plot manipulation.

 

[Lycoris4812]

I agree with resisting nep plot.

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Reading and disagree.
Not too mention what Dark already said but:

Plot manips removal

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Instant Death genuinely needs discussion rule. Posting "debunked" arguments again and again without debunking "debunks" is absolutely low-effort ngl.

It should be common sense for any verse and ID isn't exception.

This has not been debunked at all. What was debunked is his plot manipulation, not plot manipulation resistance.

Plot manipulation has no relation to resistance to plot manipulation.

The text in the thread is very clear—fate and plot are two different things, and both the novel and the manga clearly distinguish between them, so enough with this argument.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

disagree with everythihg via dark soul

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

This is something completely different. I opened a topic to add plot manipulation resistance, not to restore plot manipulation.

it'd make aoi's statement for having it as a power simultaneously real, they're not mutually exclusive aspects, so no, nothing is different at all, you're being obtuse again.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I don’t understand what plot manipulation has to do with resistance to plot manipulation.

Haha, I’ve literally started going crazy because of these comments.
Plot manipulation is one thing, and resistance to plot manipulation is something completely different.

A character doesn’t need to possess plot manipulation to have resistance to it.

The text states that the plot is nothing more than a joke in front of him, and the novel clearly distinguishes between fate and plot—both in the manga and the novel—so I don’t understand these comments at all.

 

[Voidnether]

• Plot Manipulation (She is the Worldview Holder for the story of vampire and anthromorph. She barge into the story about vampires and anthromorphs and demote Takashi from his protagonist status to side character)

I agree with Yogiri having Resistance to this, yeah

 

[sukuna171]

It’s implied that Yogiri has the ability to erase the Q&A Corner.

Spoiler

Q: Dear Mr. Yogiri. In order to add some more fanservice, could I request
that you kill the clothes of the person sitting next to you? Also, if you were to
use your power to kill the Question Corner, what would happen to the next
bonus section?

Yogiri: Even if I killed Dannoura’s clothes, it’s not like there would be an
insert image for it...
Tomochika: So you would do it if there were?!
yogiri: I’m joking.
Tomochika: So, what about killing the Question Corner, then? I don't really
understand the question, but go ahead.
Yogiri: It would just mean there’s no Question Corner next time, wouldn’t it?
Mokomoko: Such a thing would be rather troubling for us!
Tomochika: We need something for these side stories, so please don’t do it!

Spoiler

Tomochika: We’re going to be in an anime! One that you can actually
watch on TV!
Mokomoko: Did you really need to specify that part?
Tomochika: Being on TV is really important!
Yogiri: Is there anything for us to actually talk about for the anime, though?
Mokomoko: Yes, just like the Question Corners, we are once again
broadcasting from a mysterious space outside that of the main novels!
Tomochika: That means we know quite a bit about the anime.
Yogiri: But even if we know, that doesn’t mean we can share much.
Tomochika: I don’t know. Can we talk about, like, who the voice actors
will be?
Mokomoko: By the way, my voice actor will be the illustrious so-and-so!
Tomochika: If you’re not going to actually say it, why did you bring it up
at all?!
Yogiri: It’s probably obvious, but there isn’t really anything we can say at
this point.
Mokomoko: The most we can say is that such and such important
characters will be voiced by so-and-so!
Tomochika: You still didn’t tell us anything!
Yogiri: What about the broadcast date?
Mokomoko: We can say nothing!
Tomochika: So there’s actually nothing for us to tell them!
Mokomoko: More information should be available in the middle of 2023,
so until then there is nothing we can say!
Yogiri: What about how much of the story it’s going to cover?
Mokomoko: Of course, we can say nothing on that front either!
Tomochika: Then what’s the point of this “TV Anime Announcement
Space” anyway?!

 

[BreezeHM]

I was asked to tag knowledgable staff members for their opinion.

@Elizhaa @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Dereck03 @Your Mom

How and why am I in here

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

How and why am I in here

LOL

 

[sukuna171]

I agree with Yogiri having Resistance to this, yeah

to include this from Neechan wa Chuunibyou

 

[Maniaunavailable]

It’s implied that Yogiri has the ability to erase the Q&A Corner.

This is more like a gag ngl, its like kinda when deadpool came out of its story to kill its own authors or when ajimu najimi ended their author's run. idk if valid tbh

 

[Maniaunavailable]

How and why am I in here

Zoro got lost again ahhh moment

 

[sukuna171]

This is more like a gag ngl, its like kinda when deadpool came out of its story to kill its own authors or when ajimu najimi ended their author's run. idk if valid tbh

Not really, because Yogiri said the Q&A would end as a result of his instant death.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

or when ajimu najimi ended their author's run.

This didn’t even end up happening so I mean… (Not related to this thread but just wanted to point that out)

 

[Azertyhuuh]

it'd make aoi's statement for having it as a power simultaneously real, they're not mutually exclusive aspects, so no, nothing is different at all, you're being obtuse again.

I don’t understand what Aoi has to do with this???

Plot manipulation still exists in the other novel Neechan wa Chuunibyou, and as we know, it shares the same cosmology. Yuichi Sakaki has plot manipulation—he is actually the protagonist of Neechan wa Chuunibyou. That novel is fundamentally about a protagonist who can manipulate the plot itself; in fact, he is essentially an embodiment of the plot, even an embodiment of himself.

So yes, plot manipulation still exists within the Fujitakaverse in the other novel, which means it is still a valid concept and hasn’t disappeared.

What you did was only remove plot manipulation from Aoi’s character, but in the other novel, the protagonist literally manipulates the plot and is its embodiment—the entire story revolves around that, and he can even manipulate the stories themselves.

Honestly, the concept of plot manipulation is still firmly established. All you did was remove it from Aoi’s character and assume that solved the issue, lol.

Ende looked up from her book.

A boy was standing there, the label "Protagonist" hanging over his head.

This was Ryoma Takei, the partici-pant that Ende had chosen so that she could meddle in the war. He had a trait that caused him to be caught up in all sorts of strange incidents, as well as the ability to resolve those incidents as if he were the protagonist of their stories. He was, in effect, an avatar of plot conveni-

The concept of plot manipulation still exists in the Fujitakaverse, and there are other characters from another novel within the same verse who possess it, as you can see—so the concept of plot manipulation is still present.

All you did was remove it from Aoi, and that doesn’t really change anything.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Not really, because Yogiri said the Q&A would end as a result of his instant death.

archie sonci literally took irl people insinde their stories thsts like 4th wall at max

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Not really, because Yogiri said the Q&A would end as a result of his instant death.

this itself can STILL be apart of the unserious gag you know

 

[AsterReal]

That looks good.

 

[Secimatar]

Not really, because Yogiri said the Q&A would end as a result of his instant death.

There are many fictions with such type of feats and they are often not accepted by the wiki as serious feats.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Is the Q&A even canon to begin with? Or is it the typical gag like Fate's Dead End explanations?

 

[Mbpoops]

I agree with Yogiri having Resistance to this, yeah

son.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Is the Q&A even canon to begin with? Or is it the typical gag like Fate's Dead End explanations?

a complete gag yeah

 

[sukuna171]

Is the Q&A even canon to begin with? Or is it the typical gag like Fate's Dead End explanations?

Maybe the ultimate god sort of implied it was.

Spoiler

I guess those strong enough to affect the whole Ensemble World always end up being arrogant like that. I really want a friend on my own level, but thanks to it, everyone keeps disappearing. What am I supposed to do? Someone else will make their way here eventually, but they’ll just meet the same fate. Hm... Hey, you listening to this. Well, whether you’re listening, reading, or watching, I can’t really tell. You definitely understand how dangerous it is, right? So you won’t try to fight it or anything. Could you do me a favor and make your way here, so we can be friends? Using the V Road is probably the easiest way to make it here, so that’s how I recommend you do it. Yeah, just start by becoming the strongest person in your universe. Huh? That sounds impossible? I don’t know. I think you’d be surprised.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Tbh that contextless dialogue says little to me. But if there is proof of its canonicity I'd recommend to make a thread for it before arguing here.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Tbh that contextless dialogue says little to me. But if there is proof of its canonicity I'd recommend to make a thread for it before arguing here.

This has nothing to do with our topic here.
There are other characters who possess plot manipulation from another novel by the same author, and they are part of the Fujitakaverse, so I don’t understand why you’re bringing up the Q&A here.

 

[sukuna171]

Tbh that contextless dialogue says little to me. But if there is proof of its canonicity I'd recommend to make a thread for it before arguing here.

I wasn’t sure myself if it counted as plot, but there are better arguments in ID and Neechan wa Chuunibyou. like this

 

[Maniaunavailable]

This has nothing to do with our topic here.
There are other characters who possess plot manipulation from another novel by the same author, and they are part of the Fujitakaverse, so I don’t understand why you’re bringing up the Q&A here.

wasnt that adressed as a retconned or am I tripping?

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

This has nothing to do with our topic here.
There are other characters who possess plot manipulation from another novel by the same author, and they are part of the Fujitakaverse, so I don’t understand why you’re bringing up the Q&A here.

Probably because another person arguing for your side did, how about you try reading for once like they do cause you sure as hell aren't

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

This has nothing to do with our topic here.
There are other characters who possess plot manipulation from another novel by the same author, and they are part of the Fujitakaverse, so I don’t understand why you’re bringing up the Q&A here.

I was discussing the argument people are using on comments. As usual with your CRTs, most of the arguments aren't in OP, as they should, but instead appear in comments by several different people.

Just an advice: you should fix that and create a solid CRT with all your arguments in the OP so it is far easier to read and discuss. Not to spread your arguments across several pages of discussion between you and tons of other members. Your OP doesn't even mention Neechan wa Chuunibyou, which is the most solid pillar for giving Yogiri any sort of ability related with Plot Manipulation you could have.

 

[sukuna171]

wasnt that adressed as a retconned or am I tripping?

The unbeatable demon king was removed.

 

[sukuna171]

wasnt that adressed as a retconned or am I tripping?

Spoiler

For a bit of behind-the-scenes info, the plot of this series is linked in some ways to that of “My Big Sister Lives In a Fantasy World,” published by HJ Bunko. A few of the characters are related. If you haven’t read that series, it won’t affect your enjoyment of this one, though. It’s really just me playing around a bit, so if you are interested, please feel free to read that series as well.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I was discussing the argument people are using on comments. As usual with your CRTs, most of the arguments aren't in OP, as they should, but instead appear in comments by several different people.

Just an advice: you should fix that and create a solid CRT with all your arguments in the OP so it is far easier to read and discuss. Not to spread your arguments across several pages of discussion between you and tons of other members. Your OP doesn't even mention Neechan wa Chuunibyou, which is the most solid pillar for giving Yogiri any sort of ability related with Plot Manipulation you could have.

The issue is that it is already present in her profile. Everyone knows that Yuichi Sakaki from Neechan wa Chuunibyou has plot manipulation, and this is already stated in his profile, which is why I didn’t mention it. However, I will add this to the topic now.

 

[LiewtiStar]

This is something completely different. I opened a topic to add plot manipulation resistance, not to restore plot manipulation.

What Dark is trying to say is that it doesn't change the fact that what was debunked is directly the "plot" stuff that is.. an exagerated explanation of fate manip (hence resistance to fate manip)