Adding concept manipulation to few wiz characters

[Zenkaibattery1]

As established in Grandfather Spider's profile, Shadow Magic is a type 2 concept. So those who use Shadow Magic should have this stated in their profiles. Just seems the relevant profiles weren't updated for whatever reason. The profiles that will be affected:

The Rat
The Bat
Mellori
Medulla
Merle Ambrose
Morganthe
Malistaire
William The Duck.

Edit:

They should also have Acausality (Type 1 and 4). Shadow Magic as accepted before exists beyond the linear flow of time, and those who gain Shadow Magic become one with it.

 

[Ryukama]

This seems fine to me

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Okay

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I've edited the OP with Acausality

 

[Antvasima]

This is probably fine to apply then.

 

[00potato]

Ehhh, I don’t see the evidence here for any of this. Could you post it?
I feel like something this big needs a tad more evidence.

 

[Rikimarox2]

This seems fine honestly.

 

[KingTempest]

Ehhh, I don’t see the evidence here for any of this. Could you post it?
I feel like something this big needs a tad more evidence.

All (if not most of) the hax in the verse were decided on in this thread.

I agree with the addition.

 

[00potato]

I guess I will focus on the concept stuff and Acausality because those seem to be the most objectionable.
Will come back in a bit.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

This seems legit to me. I agree with the OP.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Potato, it's kinda obvious you're not agreeing because of William's fight against the character you're defending, lol. If you have overarching problems my discord is zenny#1620. Anyway as Tempest linked, all this was already accepted, just not applied to a few characters, either because the characters didn't exist or were forgotten

 

[00potato]

Is this a attack on my character over bloody Wizard 101. What the hell man, you that desperate for a way to discredit me before I even speak? Coward.

Looking it over, I don’t get concept manip, the Acausality is fine though.

The evidence for concept manip type 2 seems to be the destruction of the first world? and specifically balance am I right? That is strange for a few reasons

1 Why would they specifically have to destroy all the concepts? The world had different concepts yes but you can destroy all the matter in that world, or even the space time, without destroying the concept itself.

2 Balance is not a unique concept of its own but a blend of the others so it’s creation wouldn’t be adding a new metaphysical concept as much as using the others in a different way, the scan shown doesn’t even mention any specific schools besides storm so I don’t see why Balance is automatically included there, when again it is explained as mix (all in your scans.) rather then a unique metaphysical idea.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

No need to randomly call me a coward my guy. And no, not an attack on your character at all.

No, that isn't. I literally say in the OP it's because of Shadow Magic lol, which you can see is a type 2 concept on Spider's profile.

Shadow Magic forms and binds reality. The other schools of magic, which are aspects/embodiments of reality are binded together through shadow magic. Shadow Magic transcends the wheel of existence which is beyond the Spiral.

Grandfather Spider

I would. It's one of the prerogatives of being a Primal Divine Force. I can be as petty and absurd as I want.Spider to Mellori and The Player on if he would risk his plans to destroy the Spiral just to taunt them. Grandfather Spider was the primary antagonist of the third arc in the MMORPG...

vsbattles.fandom.com

"Type 2; The concept of Shadow Magic not only forms reality, but it also defines and rebuilds it. The other schools of magic are aspects of existence/reality which the Shadow Magic binds together. Shadow Magic transcends reality"

 

[00potato]

Damn Fandom keeps eating my posts. Sorry if this is kinda under written.

let’s first address the iffy conceptual stuff on shadow magic.
1 None of the “fundamental to reality.” “Rebuilding it” and “Binding the others.”seems to be on a conceptual level. No evidence for that.
2 The tree bit seems to be backwards, the trees are aspects/based in magic. Not Magic is as an embodiment of reality.
3 The last scan is too damn vague and flowery to accurately use.
1 Why did you link spider DILF? Scaling to Grandfather spider in any sort of way is iffy, most of these folks get power from him and they share a system of power, but scaling directly is iffy. He is pretty much the god/embodiment of Shadow, his should be so much greater and any conceptual feats by him don’t necessarily scale to others unless you can prove that he gave a significant amount of power (even then if the feats don’t suggest that it could be contradictory.)

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Then you're misunderstanding the requirements to be a type 2 concept. In order to be a type 2 concept, the thing in question simply has to form reality, have everything in reality participate in it, interact with said things, and changing said thing would change whatever participates in it. And it has to transcended of reality

Grandfather Spider's Shadow Magic, the very thing he embodies formed the reality of the Spiral, and everything in it, and binds the aspects of existence together. If they're embodiments of existence then their fundamental nature is conceptual, because they embody the very thing they are stated to embody. Otherwise they wouldn't be considered the very embodiments of whatever structure is mentioned.

I don't know what you mean by the second point. The scans literally state they embodied a new school of magic, an aspect of existence

The schools of magic are what formed the Spiral, especially Shadow Magic. I don't know if you know the lore of wiz, but existence was created through Spider's Darkness and Shadow, and Raven's light and order, the dualities beyond the great wheel of existence, which is beyond the Spiral. Which leads to your third point; It was already accepted by numerous mods, notably Ultima. It is not vague and saying it is flowery language isn't a rebuttal. It is your job to prove and say why it is iffy. You aren't even arguing anything. Therefore, it transcends reality as accepted numerous times.


Proof he gave them significant power? Sure. Here you go. These guys started at town level and jumped to Low 1-C, and stated in their battles that they were using Shadow Magic itself, thanks to Grandfather Spider. In lore, when Morganthe met the Shadow Magi, she released Shadow Magic for anyone to learn, you just needed to be decent in magic. It is there to access because it literally forms reality and binds the other embodiments of existence together, which funnily enough, are Spider's children.
Fodder users of shadow magic stated they can alter reality iself, so yes,Shadow magic definitely gives a significant amount of power.

 

[Antvasima]

Everybody please calm down and try to be polite. I am sure that you can come to an agreement here.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

We good

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is good. Thanks.

 

[00potato]

Yeah we good.
Will come back in a bit.

 

[KingTempest]

These guys started at town level and jumped to Low 1-C,

These were some days

 

[Elizhaa]

1. Shadow Magic is a type 2 concept
   1. I guess the additions are fine for those characters.
2. They should also have Acausality (Type 1 and 4). Shadow Magic as accepted before exists beyond the linear flow of time, and those who gain Shadow Magic become one with it
   1. It seems legit but do you have evidence like scans or video links for the claim that those who gain Shadow Magic become one with it?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

1. Shadow Magic is a type 2 concept
I mean, it is a type 2 concept doesn't mean it can control type 2 concepts.

2. Acausality
Can you post the proof for "becomes one" cus that can easily be taken out of context.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Almost forgot about this thread

@Elizhaa should note I talked to ultima and gave him the info for concept manipulation. Waiting for him to respond. I'm almost certain he agrees though. Also, Earl, your first point makes no sense. You're not arguing anything. It's a type 2 concept and people can control it = they are controlling a type 2 concept.

Also, Elizhaa, in the link above, we see enemies of the past get given Shadow Magic by grandfather spider and they become different characters. Rattlebones becomes "shadowbones" and has the Shadow Symbol next to his name meaning he has become one with it, same with the other villains.


Over here is another one where you see it on screen, Malistaire transforms into Shadow Malistarie and makes it one with himself, and also gainst the shadow symbol to... symbolise it.

Anyway I am off on holiday, so I'll be responding in 1 week if it hasn't been accepted by then.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

I agree with the OP here. Pretty straightforward

 

[Antvasima]

So what has and has not been accepted here?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I also think the information in the OP is rather straightforward.