Adam vs Moroha

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https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Adam_(NieR:_Automata)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Moroha_Haimura

Speed equalized.

7-B versions.

His immortality won't be used.

Adam:2(Gargoyle,Knight)

Moroha:0

Inconclusive:1(Newendigo)

 

[Newendigo]

Is quite hard, how does Adam RE works?, because that can easily lead him to the victory and so.

 

[Schnee_One]

Adam's adaptation shows him capable of being able to nearly instantaneously adapt and evolve to his opponent overtime, plus is able to understand attacks overtime and devolop counters for them, Dafirtzi can probably explain it better, that said I'm not voting yet.

Anyway, I think Adam is going to take this, reactive evolution and his intelligence should allow him to react to most of Monoha's attacks after a while, and after a bit of fighting, will eventually develop counters to his attacks.

This is all of course provided that Adam doesn't one/two story, Monoha, judging from his feat in the AP section, is Baseline 7B, Adam however, is barely below Mountain level.

That said, "erase a city" sounds interesting, can Monoha erase Adam?

 

[Blanked]

No, he can't erase him it's just flowery language from the novel.

He should be higher than baseline as destruction of the city is basically just a secondary consequence plus his enchanmmets give him a rather large boost in strength and durabilty so, AP and durabilty wise there shouldn't be particular diffrence.

Also for everything Moroha can do I will make a post now to help everyone with it

 

[Newendigo]

For now, I'm going for inconclusive, until someone explain better Adam's R.E.

 

[Schnee_One]

For now, I'm going for inconclusive, until someone explain better Adam's R.E.

I did explain it.

Count me as inconclusive now as well.

 

[Newendigo]

Yeah, but I prefer if Dafirtzi explain it.

 

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Moroha can freeze the opponent immobilising them (with strongest spell for couple of hours) and also the strongest ice spell has AOE of several kilometers with side effect that decreeses temperature drastically.

Bind them with chains stopping the opponent from moving, blind them with a flash of light.

Lower his body weight to zero,finishing on several kilometers of height or fly when combined with wind magic. Can boost himself up with enchantments(strength,speed,durabilty, sight etc...)

When his "prana" hits his opponents it enters their body allowing Moroha to damage them from inside.

His ourboros creates a lake. The water of this lake can be remotely controlled by Moroha.(pretty much like Gaara controls his sand)

Heal himself (healing wounds that can leave large scars at max).

He can generate normal barriers and barriers that can grant high resistance on elemental based attacks like fire,storm etc...

Create optical illusions.

Huge versitalty as he has wind,fire,water,light,lighting,ice based attacks.

Also 1 second of immunity on magic but that is irrelavant her.

Now some other things that since Adam is an android I suppose don't have an effect.

Make the opponent fall asleep or attack their mind with various spells where the strongest can make the opponent faint instantly.

Pretty much what he can do is there.

@Gargoyle vote counted and thx for help.

 

[Schnee_One]

Okay.

Reactive evolution takes care of that.

Not sure if that works on someone as strong as Adam

Wait he has to apply those in the middle of the fight? That's a HUGE problem, if Adam hits him before he does so, he's already too wounded to take the fight back. Also, Adama can fly too..

Okay that River may cause some problems, but Adam can fly to avoid it.

Yeah damaging him from the inside could be problematic.

That healing won't help.

Adam doesn't use elements unfortunately.

I don't think illusions will work on an Android.

 

[Blanked]

All of his abilities have already worked on people comparable and possibly stronger as one of the persons he fought has much greater durabilty than anyone else in the series so it should work on Adam as well.

Moroha doesn't have problems with his spells as he needs only one hand for chanting and has continuously chanted spells while in middle of combat whether he was attacking or defending. While for his healing it's almost instant, also his barriers help a lot together with enchanted sight that allows him to clearly see even on hundreds of meters of distance and further.

He is a sort of combat genius who lived both as a magician and sword skill user where he fought armies on his own(this is his 3'th life) and is currently showed to be the only one who doesn't have any difficulties chanting and fighting at the same time, which is in fact the "only" thing that allows him to fight opponents who are stronger than him.


Edit: He has regular barriers to defend from attacks, the other barriers are just specific invisible body armors like Haki in OP that to him give a high resistance on a specific element.

 

[Schnee_One]

If his abilities work on people who have far greater durability then him or are people stronger then Adam, then his AP and Dura should be adjusted.

It's not about his healing being instant, the moment Adam lands a serious punch or kick on him, he's going to take slot of damage.

How strong are these armies? Because of they're armies of fodder enemies then that's ultimately not a very good feat, Adam has heals his own against 2B and 9S at the same time and this was before he absorbed a lot of knowledge from the machine network, and would have killed 2B had he not disconnected himself from said network.

Adam is a physical fighter, and he can reflect attacks, those barkers will only help in not making those attacks kill him.

 

[Blanked]

For his profile I can at max add likely higher for now. I am also gonna make a key for one of his past lives where he is an easy country buster.

The example of armies was mostly an example for his battle skill thou the last battle he had were decently powerful opponents who could of hurt him when being hit directly.

well, barriers are made for that thou it always depends on what barrier he uses as, if he combines barriers together with kongoutsu that hardens his body he can reduce damage by a significant amount assuming that reflected attack hits him. Dodging is an option plus if it's magic attack he can just render himself immune on magic ignoring the impact or if it's elemental attack(which again is magic) simply a specific barrier for the reflected attack, like generally he is extremely versatile in both attack and defence as being the only person able to use two diffrent types of power in his verse.

Also his ourboros kinda gives him time for things like cocytus that can just freeze the enemie as the spell in a form of a dragon can be sent directly on his enemies if needed.

I wasted a lot of time to find a good opponent for Moroha that isn't just easily overwhelmed by this guys ridiculous versitalty or that his opponents simply doesn't have some sort of hax that stomp him.

Also, if ya want give it a look at his match with Tatsumi, I am not sure but Tatsumi's adaptation and mind manipulation resistance should make it fair...

Moroha is also a sword user where he infuses prana within his sword so i don't know if trying to punch him and go into a h2h is all that good of idea as cutting attacks are more dangerous allowing him also to let his prana enter Adam's body.(again since Tatsumi has that spear so he doesn't have to fight with his hands it should make it fair...)

 

[Schnee_One]

Fair enough I guess, but that's a huge difference he still has to make up for, ultimately if we're using his 7B version that however won't apply.

It's still not very good, if you're 7B, wiping out an army is cake.

That still doesn't change my point, those will have trouble going through his barriers and when they do, reactive evolution will help him.

Adam has absolutely no problem in CQC, he fought 2B and 9S before he even awoke and absorbed the knowledge of the machine network, plus again, his AP is much higher, Adam Takes the CQC advantage here.

 

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The advantage is lowered by gonkotsu, but I see your point... Still Moroha is just as dangerous if not more in CQC because of his prana's effect and cutting attacks.

It's good skill wise not AP cause we talk about 1000 enemies attacking from all directions that are thou weaker than him.

 

[Schnee_One]

How skilled is he in CQC? We're talking about a guy who keeps up with 2B and 9S simultaneously in a weakened state, the army staying feat isn't all that impressive.

Both can one shot each other hear or at least do a lot of damage.

 

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He fought an opponent who's armor was so strong that even his strongest attack barely made a scratch and who was able to nullfy any magical attack... and is also an expert in CQC as he doesn't use magical attacks,

plus is a fighter that spends most of his times fighting armies of monsters, were strongest(usually 1 or 2) were more powerful than him plus he is trained as soldier from very young age and Moroha was able to match him for a long period and in the end freeze him for couple of hours.

Moroha also has feats fighting and at certain point completely overwhelming an assassin trained by the russian military from very young age (like almost every person coming from Russia as the current ruler is a cruel person).

One of these assassins had a weapon that literally absorbs Prana which is the energy they use for fighting.

Basically in his verse he always fights at least military lvl skilled persons (masters in martial arts, masters in swordsmanship, use of shield, use of spear etc...) and several of these are ethier stronger or at least his lvl.

Skill wise his battle style was described as when he finds himself in a battle against 1000 enemies, he isn't fighting them 1000 on 1, but 1 on 1 thousand times plus he has other 2 lives with many years worth of fighting and the battles that I talked about before are actually all in his 3'th life.

 

[Schnee_One]

I don't know if those stack up to holding your own against 2B and 9S for an extended period of time while not nearly as powerful or as strong as you are by the end of the game, both of them, fought off every machine from the network and 9S has fought multiple groups of androids that were supposed to be superior to him in combat, and this was all in a weakened mental state, Adam fought 9S and 2B in their prime.

 

[Blanked]

You keep saying powerful and strong, while we are discussing skill in CQC... I mean Garou gets one shot by any of Metal bats hits, but because he is more skilled he stomped him so AP is not that relevant.

Plus what exactly can you use to base who is more skilled?

I mean if we take the amount of battles than Moroha has years and years of advantage.

If you take quality of those battles than Moroha fought from masters of martial arts too masters of some sort of a weapon(sword,spear,shield etc...) a lot of people that are stronger than him or equal to him and persons that are trained how to kill from the day they are "born.

I mean skill wise they both have their feats against people who are good in CQC, but there is no specific way to confront them.

P.S since you know about the verse maybe you should complete his profile cause some of the things you mentioned are not on his profile.

 

[Schnee_One]

Uhh....I'm lost on that....Have I not been discussing feats done by the people Adam fought on par with at the beginning of the game in a weakened state? I really haven't done much at all in the way of discussing who's more powerful, all of this involves skill...

Feats and showings.

Feats>Years of fighting, though Adam probably wins in that due to absorbing knowledge from the machine network which includes life forms who have fought humans and aliens for centuries, to the point of making both races completely extinct.

Now how is he getting by such a massive AP advantage, it's going to be hell getting close on a guy who can reflect your attacks at close range and unless I'm contradicted, it seems Adam has a pretty large AP advantage due to being barely below mountain level while Moroha does a Baseline feat as an afteraffect I guess...

Yeah, switch my vote to Adam.

Now skill in fighting is isn't the factor here,

 

[Blanked]

Again his AP advantage is low not only because Moroha ain't just baseline considering city destruction would be a secondary effect (also unknown size of the city)as the attack was supposed to destroy a Monster that wasn't affected by anything that Moroha, another dude somewhat stronger than him and bunch of weaker characters did physically all together.

Than his enchantments raise both his durabilty and AP even further.

In the end AP and Durabilty advantage is quite minimum and I kinda already explained what happens with reflected attacks if they even hit and to how in close combat Moroha is more dangeorus cause of cutting attacks and his prana e terming Adams body attacking it from inside.

Plus it's far worse for Adam as with ourboros Moroha has an entier lake that he can control for both defence and attack.

^thou all that we have already discussed.

Also you said something about mental state... Does that mean Moroha can attack his mind and or make him fall asleep(doubt that one) also why wouldn't an illusion work if he has a mind or was that 2B?

Edit: going to sleep so... Your vote was added and I think we finished discussing anyway.

 

[Schnee_One]

Adam is physically stronger then A2 who tanked a point blank nuke inside a mountain which immediately proceeded to collapse on top of her and survived, saying that the AP advantage is only Low when Moroha has a feat at Baseline is quite frankly absurd, Adam has a medium difference in AP at MAX lowball, even with Moraha's enhancements which he needs to activate mid battle, AFTER Adam hits him, the AP difference here is abundantly clear and not at all low.

Which he needs to use in the middle of combat, what are the chances he does this before he gets in CQC.

Not even close, I explained above, Adam has a pretty massive AP difference.

That was a feat done by 9S, he fought multiple androids with a deteriorating mental state and said androids were supposed to be combat androids while he was a scanner, Adam fought prime 9S and 2B at the same time, while not in his own prime.

 

[LordGinSama]

Adam due to Gargoyles reason.

 

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Adam AP advantage (that's going to be lowered by Moroha's enchants) and strong adaptation abilty.

Moroha extreme versitalty advantage and things like (attacks that hurt the body from inside, a remote control of an entire lake for defence and attack purposes, instant freezing, blinding, binding etc...)

Pretty much the adavantges of each as they both can fly if necessary and both can generate barriers,(I think I got everything there...)

Adam:2

Moroha:0

Inconclusive:1

Good thing from all of this is that we went trough pretty much everything these two can do.

 

[Schnee_One]

If he uses Enchantments before he gets hit by a serious punch doing a ton of damage to him right off the bat.

 

[Blanked]

Adam due to Gargoyles reason.

Just for the sake of clear votes it would be appreciated if you gave more than one sentence. Maybe just write things that you agree on.

 

[LordGinSama]

Actually my phone is about to die so i can give you a better reason once i charge it.

 

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If he uses Enchantments before he gets hit by a serious punch doing a ton of damage to him right off the bat.

If he gets a clear hit as he has barriers, his own attack to counter, possibilty to dodge or possibly just use the enchantment before getting a clear hit.

@Knight sure whenever ya can.

 

[Schnee_One]

Just for the sake of clear votes it would be appreciated if you gave more than one sentence. Maybe just write things that you agree on.

For reasons above is just fine.

 

[Blanked]

@Gargoyle actually there were quite a lot of complains lately in which Scarlet even made a thread. I mean if it was like 5'th or 6'th vote I guess it's fine, but this is just the beggining and starting immediately with FRA is not good for a thread.

 

[Schnee_One]

Hardly the beginning, look how long this argument got....

 

[LordGinSama]

I'm assuming FRA is still an accepted way to vote but I'll give an explanation anyway. I can't really say much because Gargoyle explained it better than i could say it myself. Adam should take this via reactive evolution, vastly superior stamina, possibly higher striking strength and Durability ( I can't say for sure since Moroha is ranked at unknown for both ). Aside from that i have nothing else to add.

 

[Schnee_One]

We went through all this and his dura is unknown?

 

[LordGinSama]

Along with his striking strength yes.

 

[Blanked]

I need to update that as he will have two diffrent striking strengths and durabilty's. One without prana and one with prana which will make them equals as we obviously use him when using prana. I will add the ones with prana for now as for normal him I need a calc.

There he is updated. Adam of course has an overall stat adavantges except range, but all of the advantages can be lowered with enchantments. Also knight i suppose you saw everything Moroha can do as the post got kinda lost with all this discussions thing.

 

[Schnee_One]

You keep saying Ehnhancements when he has to activate them before he actually starts fighting, because then he's far too hurt to take the fight.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

What's the accepted value for the calculation for the Automata guys?

 

[Schnee_One]

Elaborate.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I mean, the megatons stuff.

 

[Schnee_One]

You can check the calc on the profile....

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I did, but I'm seeing E = 6 * 4.938705 E15 = 2.963223 E16 J (7-B, City) and similar stuff like that which I don't understand and Dark said 9.4 megatons. So, I don't know which value is accepted.