Ace, Jozu and Vista Downgrade CRT

[Whiz_Almighty]

I'm proposing to remove possibly 6-B in their profiles.

First,
Ace: He was able to match Aokiji's eagle attack due to ice being natural enemy of fire. He was beaten by pre time skip Blackbeard who got blown away and hurt (shouted in pain) from gear 2nd pre time skip Luffy's jet pistol. When Ace matched to Akainu, Ace was no match.

Jozu: He was able to hurt Aokiji off guard. That does not count. He could not get off from Doflamingo's string control until Doflamingo surrendered his control. The same string control that was broken by Luffy through transforming into Gear 4th boundman.

Vista: He could not do much against Akainu whom only receive a scratch from his sword. In payback war, Shiryu would have been his opponent and defeated since whitebeard remnants lost against Blackbeard pirates.

Additional change:

The speed description of Kaido is vague. "when a weaker Luffy who was also using Kenbunshoku Haki considered light speed to be slow" - This means base Luffy is ftl when in fact Luffy is only relativistic+. That is all.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Neutral atm but the kaido speed updates are being saved for wano revisions. People like luffy and Zoro would already be 6-B and FTL if they were applied

 

[USklaverei]

At no point is it mentioned that Base Luffy is FTL, it doesn't scale for his movement but for his perception with HDO.

About Vista, he kept to Mihawk

 

[KingTempest]

I'm proposing to remove possibly 6-B in their profiles.

Go ahead

First,
Ace: He was able to match Aokiji's eagle attack due to ice being natural enemy of fire. He was beaten by pre time skip Blackbeard who got blown away and hurt (shouted in pain) from gear 2nd pre time skip Luffy's jet pistol. When Ace matched to Akainu, Ace was no match.

Ace was able to match an attack from Akainu and only lost from elemental weakness via his hand getting burned, which he quickly shook off and managed to get in front of and outrun Akainu. You have no reason to justify Ace's High 7-A being able to match an attack from a 6-B Ice man who can fight a magma man who can vaporize steel without contact.

Ace is only not fully 6-B because people are bias.

Blackbeard also took a quake from Whitebeard. All of Luffy's feats during Marineford to the god tiers are outliers.

Jozu: He was able to hurt Aokiji off guard. That does not count. He could not get off from Doflamingo's string control until Doflamingo surrendered his control. The same string control that was broken by Luffy through transforming into Gear 4th boundman.

Aokiji stared at him while he literally just used Observation Haki prior and eyed him down and perceived him running into him. Jozu is also stated to have some of the best physical strength in the entire series, which would put him up on the level of the god tiers.

Doflamingo used his strings for that, that is a lifting strength feat. You are confusing lifting strength for AP.

Vista: He could not do much against Akainu whom only receive a scratch from his sword. In payback war, Shiryu would have been his opponent and defeated since whitebeard remnants lost against Blackbeard pirates.

Vista couldn't cut Akainu because Akainu negated his logia negation so he couldn't get harmed. Same with Marco who scales to the admirals. This is not AP.
Vista could/would backscale from Mihawk, who is 6-B as well.
Can you prove Shiryu was his opponent? Can you explain why we wouldn't just upgrade Shiryu instead of downgrading Vista?

Additional change:

The speed description of Kaido is vague. "when a weaker Luffy who was also using Kenbunshoku Haki considered light speed to be slow" - This means base Luffy is ftl when in fact Luffy is only relativistic+. That is all.

This is not what it means at all. It means Luffy can react to light speed while using Kenbunshoku Haki.

Heavily disagree, heck, their lower High 7-A ends should be removed and they should be fully 6-B, but I know damn well that's not gonna happen since the last CRT bs happened.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Agreed with tempest, people just have some itch about making ace, jozu, and vista 6-B and idk why

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I still don't understand why Kaido is FTL in the profile. If we don't want anyone to scale so as not to get in the way of future revisions isn't it easier to add later?

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I still don't understand why Kaido is FTL in the profile. If we don't want anyone to scale so as not to get in the way of future revisions isn't it easier to add later?

It was accepted already, and the rest will be added later

 

[KingTempest]

I still don't understand why Kaido is FTL in the profile. If we don't want anyone to scale so as not to get in the way of future revisions isn't it easier to add later?

People will scale, we're just waiting
And there's no reason to revert it now

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Ace was able to match an attack from Akainu and only lost from elemental weakness via his hand getting burned, which he quickly shook off and managed to get in front of and outrun Akainu. You have no reason to justify Ace's High 7-A being able to match an attack from a 6-B Ice man who can fight a magma man who can vaporize steel without contact.

Wouldn't that mean Ace could counter Whitebeard's attacks like Akainu did?

Blackbeard also took a quake from Whitebeard

Wasn't Whitebeard nearly dead at that point?

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Wouldn't that mean Ace could counter Whitebeard's attacks like Akainu did?

Wasn't Whitebeard nearly dead at that point?

Yeah and nearly dead Whitebeard is 14 TT currently off of scaling to Akainu.

 

[KingTempest]

Wouldn't that mean Ace could counter Whitebeard's attacks like Akainu did?

In the novel Ace burned Whitebeard and forced him to use his Devil Fruit. He would backscale.

Wasn't Whitebeard nearly dead at that point?

This same nearly dead WB not even a few minutes prior bodied Akainu

 

[Eminiteable]

Agree with Tempest's points

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

People will scale, we're just waiting
And there's no reason to revert it now

I understand that we are waiting for Wano to finish before starting a future revision (At least as far as I know). But like, if we are waiting for Wano to finish and then add the upgrades why is Kaido's FTL speed an exception? This can make people on the wiki confused and create unnecessary threads.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I understand that we are waiting for Wano to finish before starting a future revision (At least as far as I know). But like, if we are waiting for Wano to finish and then add the upgrades why is Kaido's FTL speed an exception? This can make people on the wiki confused and create unnecessary threads.

I mean tbh we might as well make a FTL thread rn IMO, it would make more sense to do that rn, instead of AP revisions which can be saved for when wano is done

 

[KingTempest]

I understand that we are waiting for Wano to finish before starting a future revision. But like, if we are waiting for Wano to finish and then add the upgrades why is Kaido's FTL speed an exception? This can make people on the wiki confused and create unnecessary threads.

We're waiting for Wano to finish for huge verse wide upgrades, not small character upgrades, which is why we have small ability CRTs and some characters with ratings.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Kaido's FTL is definitely not a small upgrade

 

[KingTempest]

Kaido's FTL is definitely not a small upgrade

Currently it scales to nobody. Heck, it should even scale to a single attack

 

[LordGriffin1000]

In the novel Ace burned Whitebeard and forced him to use his Devil Fruit. He would backscale.

That's seems fine

This same nearly dead WB not even a few minutes prior bodied Akainu

But Akainu previously blocked an attack from did he not? If Whitbread "bodied" Akainu but why is scaling between them even a thing?

 

[KingTempest]

That's seems fine

Thanks

But Akainu previously blocked an attack from did he not? If Whitbread "bodied" Akainu but why is scaling between them even a thing?

He doesn't scale to WB's full power, he blocked an attack from WB aimed at fodder, which is why it's not on his AP or Durability justification

 

[Whiz_Almighty]

A vivre card databook stated Benn Beckman is almost as strong as Shanks. Is it a mistranslation or if it is not, Benn Beckman should scale to it and upgraded to full 6-B

 

[LordGriffin1000]

He doesn't scale to WB's full power, he blocked an attack from WB aimed at fodder, which is why it's not on his AP or Durability justification

Ok, that makes sense. My bad.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

That's seems fine

But Akainu previously blocked an attack from did he not? If Whitbread "bodied" Akainu but why is scaling between them even a thing?

Akainu already scales to 14 TT for scaling above Blackbeard’s shima yurashi.


Also akainu I’m pretty sure does backscale off of sickbeard iirc

 

[KingTempest]

A vivre card databook stated Benn Beckman is almost as strong as Shanks. Is it a mistranslation or if it is not, Benn Beckman should scale to it and upgraded to full 6-B

Idk why it's currently likely (I was the one who implemented it, I forgot what I was thinking), that can be changed in this CRT

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I am hilariously so far behind One Piece to the point it is not even funny (Mostly due to laziness and not keeping up with manga except the Arc with a certain string manipulating SOB) , but anyway, this seems reasonable.

 

[KingTempest]

(Bro read the counters)

 

[HammerStrikes219]

(Bro read the counters)

Oh sorry. Just read them earlier too so yeah. (Yeah, I am tired as hell. Still my bad)

 

[KingTempest]

Oh sorry. Just read them earlier too so yeah. (Yeah, I am tired as hell. Still my bad)

Nah you're cool, no issues

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Nah you're cool, no issues

Cool... meanwhile I gonna look further into Gear of War stuff as it is long overdue for a minor downgrade in terms of just physical stats.

 

[KingTempest]

(Ship level) but yeah Ace is also stated to have one of the strongest Devil Fruits.
Jozu is stated in our last CRT to have top class strength.
Vista fought Mihawk.

They should be 6-B

 

[GuildZero]

Go ahead

Ace was able to match an attack from Akainu and only lost from elemental weakness via his hand getting burned, which he quickly shook off and managed to get in front of and outrun Akainu. You have no reason to justify Ace's High 7-A being able to match an attack from a 6-B Ice man who can fight a magma man who can vaporize steel without contact.

Ace is only not fully 6-B because people are bias.

Ace did not clash evenly with akainu at all. They clash abd immediately next panel we see only akainu lava and ace being burned. Ace also didn't quickly shake it off. We only see ace multiple panels later when akainu went to kill luffy and he managed to outrun akainu.

Ace shouldn't be 6-B if his only feat that justify him being 6-B is him clashing with akainu and immediately gets burned.

 

[GuildZero]

I agree ace should get the possibly 6-B rating removed but neutral on jozu but leaning mostly to disagreeing and disagree with vista.

Jozu damages aokiji when he was off gaurd but was shown to be able to fight and take aokiji on for sometime and the only time aokiji does anything significant to jozu was when whitebeard was having health problems in the middle of the fight with akainu. So it seems they were pretty much on the same tier. I am fine if it gets removed but i feel like he has the feats to say he is 6-B. Also didn't doffy catch jozu while he was off gaurd with his strings and that seems more like a LS feat and not a AP feat.

Vista i completely disagree as he is shown to be able to fight somewhat evenly with mihawk and was able to somewhat damage akainu. He should just downscale from mihawk honestly and be flat out 6-B

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Ace did not clash evenly with akainu at all. They clash abd immediately next panel we see only akainu lava and ace being burned. Ace also didn't quickly shake it off. We only see ace multiple panels later when akainu went to kill luffy and he managed to outrun akainu.

Ace shouldn't be 6-B if his only feat that justify him being 6-B is him clashing with akainu and immediately gets burned.

Did you forget that he burned WB in the novel and clashed evenly with aokiji? Why do you guys forget shit like this

 

[GuildZero]

Did you forget that he burned WB in the novel and clashed evenly with aokiji? Why do you guys forget shit like this

Didnt read the novel can you explain what happen

Ace clashing with aokiji is nothing but elemental advantage. I didn't forget just wasn't something that was brought up in this thread so i didn't address it

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Elemental advantage is a bad argument because magma > fire
Akainu’s magma > aces fire

yet aokijis ice fought against akainus magma for 10 days straight and ****** akainu up as well as aokiji getting hurt too. That’s a really bad argument to say elemental adv.

He burned whitebeard, so Whitebeard used his DF to oneshot him.

 

[GuildZero]

Elemental advantage is a bad argument because magma > fire
Akainu’s magma > aces fire

yet aokijis ice fought against akainus magma for 10 days straight and ****** akainu up as well as aokiji getting hurt too. That’s a really bad argument to say elemental adv.

He burned whitebeard, so Whitebeard used his DF to oneshot him.

How is it a bad argument. We seen nothing of the fight between aokiji vs akainu and we have no idea if aokiji was able to clash evenly with akainu magma. Just that he fought him for 10 days and damaged him severely which is impressive. But nothing suggest aokiji ice can clash evenly with akainu magma.

And this does nothing for ace. Ace fire being weaker than akainu magma doesn't mean anything.

And i was asking for what happened in the fight. Did whitebeard underestimate him and got burned then decided to one shot him. Did he manage to somewhat push whitebeard back before he oneshot him. Can you past the scene for me please

 

[StrawHatArslan]

How is it a bad argument. We seen nothing of the fight between aokiji vs akainu and we have no idea if aokiji was able to clash evenly with akainu magma. Just that he fought him for 10 days and damaged him severely which is impressive. But nothing suggest aokiji ice can clash evenly with akainu magma.

And this does nothing for ace. Ace fire being weaker than akainu magma doesn't mean anything.

And i was asking for what happened in the fight. Did whitebeard underestimate him and got burned then decided to one shot him. Did he manage to somewhat push whitebeard back before he oneshot him. Can you past the scene for me please

It would be fallacious to assume that ones haki would be better than another. Why else did they fight for 10 days straight? It doesn’t make any sense as to why they can fight for 10 days straight then. Yes it does, aokiji and ace clashed evenly, aokiji can also clash with akainu for 10 days, and ace only lost due to elemental advantage against akainu, not aokiji against ace.

 

[GuildZero]

It would be fallacious to assume that ones haki would be better than another. Why else did they fight for 10 days straight? It doesn’t make any sense as to why they can fight for 10 days straight then. Yes it does, aokiji and ace clashed evenly, aokiji can also clash with akainu for 10 days, and ace only lost due to elemental advantage against akainu, not aokiji against ace.

I didnt say haki i was talking about df. It just means aokiji is weaker but can still damage and keep up with akainu.

Like i said it means nothing. Aokiji with type advantage was able to fight akainu and loss for 10 days straight. This is a feat for aokiji. And if ace lost to akainu due to type advantage then he clashed evenly with aokiji because of type advantage. Which means ace would not get the 6-B rating due to this.

 

[Whiz_Almighty]

Would not be Sabo 6-B from clashing with Fujitora?

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I didnt say haki i was talking about df. It just means aokiji is weaker but can still damage and keep up with akainu.

Like i said it means nothing. Aokiji with type advantage was able to fight akainu and loss for 10 days straight. This is a feat for aokiji. And if ace lost to akainu due to type advantage then he clashed evenly with aokiji because of type advantage. Which means ace would not get the 6-B rating due to this.

what type advantage?

my point is that YOURE saying

fire > ice

magma > fire but the ice fought fine against the magma?


it just shows that ace's fire isnt superior to aokijis ice, there is NO type advantage with those two.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Would not be Sabo 6-B from clashing with Fujitora?

fujitora is not 6-B