Absolute Zero feats should be High 3-A

[RoyGundam]

The work done in cooling a body in thermodynamic terms is expressed by something called a Coefficient of performance (COP) which is the ratio of heat removed from the system per unit work done. Under ideality assumptions, it is written as Tc/Th-Tc where Tc is the cold temperature and Th is the hot temperature (both in kelvin). An interesting by-product of the thermodynamics is that at Absolute Zero, i.e. Tc = 0, the COP becomes 0 - which means an infinite amount of work needs to be done to bring a body to the temperature of exactly absolute zero and that is where the High 3-A proposal comes from. Luckily there is only a small number of feats that are classified as absolute zero in the wiki (and for good reason) : feats

Proposal : Re-examine Absolute Zero feats and give High 3-A Tier to Absolute Zero feats that exactly reach Absolute Zero temperature and explicitly accomplish the expected Physics of Absolute Zero temperature

Reference

 

[Planck69]

This is just....redundant.

Most feats dont even consider this. Like, I dont think there's a single AZ feat on the wiki that takes this into consideration. Even if one does, it'd have to prove consistent with the character's showings. At that point, the character probably would've been High 3-A to begin with.

But sure I suppose.

 

[SamanPatou]

This is just why real life physics shouldn't always be used when talking about fiction, just like Black Holes, Lasers etc...
These things simply aren't taken in account when author(s) write something, they just give powers and specific tiers can be given only if the showings and the context are explicit and consistent enough.

Otherwise, we would have High 3-A Pokémon after Lanturn's dex entry: The light it emits is so bright that it can illuminate the sea's surface from a depth of over three miles.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I disagree with this fra

 

[StrymULTRA]

As Saman stated, we don't apply irl stuff to fiction, otherwise any FTL character get Immeasurable speed

 

[Planck69]

Disagree in case that wasn't clear.

 

[RoyGundam]

To take an example - Infinite Mass Punch explicitly utilizes relativity and so it is considered valid for that feat. Similarly, stopping all atomic motion does in fact, break physics and should count as such if the feat explicitly does that

 

[StrymULTRA]

Because the verse threats that as such, not that all the fiction does.

 

[Planck69]

To take an example - Infinite Mass Punch explicitly utilizes relativity and so it is considered valid for that feat. Similarly, stopping all atomic motion does in fact, break physics and should count as such if the feat explicitly does that

The verse not only treats it as such but its consistent with other feats and thus, it is valid. Not a single AZ feat takes this into consideration though.

 

[RoyGundam]

Please read the Proposal again

 

[Planck69]

I mean, its redundant at best. No character on the wiki actually specifies this and those that do (if they exist) would need other feats for this to not be an outlier. At that point, they'd be High 3-A even without it.

 

[Hasty12345]

Camus is up to low 2-C at peak anyway, which is consistent with how infinite energy, the Big Bang and, 7th sense etc is portrayed in Saint Seiya. Camus can't causally perform AZ feats, it is something he can only hit at his peak, so this scaling is already indicated by his current rating.

idk about the other characters though.

 

[Thelastmlg]

This is just why real life physics shouldn't always be used when talking about fiction, just like Black Holes, Lasers etc...
These things simply aren't taken in account when author(s) write something, they just give powers and specific tiers can be given only if the showings and the context are explicit and consistent enough.

Otherwise, we would have High 3-A Pokémon after Lanturn's dex entry: The light it emits is so bright that it can illuminate the sea's surface from a depth of over three miles.

Hehe i remember this becoming a meme in reddit, something like "every atom in pokemon has universal durability because of lanturn"

 

[Tllmbrg]

The work done in cooling a body in thermodynamic terms is expressed by something called a Coefficient of performance (COP) which is the ratio of heat removed from the system per unit work done. Under ideality assumptions, it is written as Tc/Th-Tc where Tc is the cold temperature and Th is the hot temperature (both in kelvin). An interesting by-product of the thermodynamics is that at Absolute Zero, i.e. Tc = 0, the COP becomes 0 - which means an infinite amount of work needs to be done to bring a body to the temperature of exactly absolute zero and that is where the High 3-A proposal comes from. Luckily there is only a small number of feats that are classified as absolute zero in the wiki (and for good reason) : feats

Proposal : Re-examine Absolute Zero feats and give High 3-A Tier to Absolute Zero feats that exactly reach Absolute Zero temperature and explicitly accomplish the expected Physics of Absolute Zero temperature

Reference

No

 

[Greenshifter]

To take an example - Infinite Mass Punch explicitly utilizes relativity and so it is considered valid for that feat. Similarly, stopping all atomic motion does in fact, break physics and should count as such if the feat explicitly does that

Tbf you might be able to get away with this in DC for Captain Cold. Everyone else though... doubt it. I’ll look for the scan.

 

[Ionliosite]

Yeah, no, this is the equivalent of giving High 3-A to every character who creats a Black Hole, so disagreed.

 

[Greenshifter]

This might be enough for High 3-A since he directly references Joule and Thomson. Could be wrong tho. I doubt anyone else qualifies, even CW Cold.

 

[Planck69]

Unless he explicitly mentions the infinite joules involved, it shouldn't really count the way I see it. Plus, High 3-A Cold is an outlier anyway.

 

[Greenshifter]

How so? It’d only be for his cold gun. Everything that gets frozen at AZ uses the High 3-A energy source so it’s not like this’ll scale to anyone, even if they resist the freezing.

Edit: Probably best I got for infinite energy.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

While technically, freezing things to AZ temperatures via traditional methods such as conductivity or Ice Manipulation are indeed High 3-A. It shares a lot of the same problems with lightspeed kinetic energy and black hole feats in fiction. Also it needs to be the correct method to qualify; simply deleting thermal energy is how most AZ feats typically are; though strangely it's not really the case for typical ice projection.

The only example I can think of where it actually does appear to be using the scientifically accurate method; slowing down particles telekinetically till they're forced to a complete stop, is Jin from Xenoblade. And it's also him using Ether who has used it to accelerate himself to lightspeed or faster than lightspeed by bending elementary particles in such and such. But I still see it as kind of outlierish for him given he's consistently shown to have limited stamina and a finite pool of energy.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

This reminds me of a guy saying that TF2 Scout double jumping is reality warping. Sorry, don't think it could actually account to universal level lol.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

What are some examples of ways for AZ feats to be accepted as High 3-A out of curiosity?

Is there only 1 method?

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

What are some examples of ways for AZ feats to be accepted as High 3-A out of curiosity?

Is there only 1 method?

If they're confirmed to be this high

 

[Armorchompy]

I'd assume they'd need to have no "anti-feats" first and foremost, and then have someone in the work explain or point out that they'd have this effect.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It needs to be explained that it was frozen by sheer conductivity such as with wind or fanning the thermal energy. Or it is done by physically attempting to slow down every atom or molecule till they all come to a complete stop. Simply flash freezing to AZ or colder than AZ isn't AP in the slightest and just hax.

 

[Greenshifter]

@DDM I assume Captain Cold’s gun gets quite close to being scientifically accurate/explained enough for High 3-A?

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

@DDM I assume Captain Cold gets quite close to being scientifically accurate/explained enough for High 3-A?

High Universe Snart lmao

 

[Greenshifter]

Amped Snart fought a supercharged Barry who has enough power to destroy the universe.

But it’s probably a chain reaction feat.

Edit: check your wall

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Amped Snart fought a supercharged Barry who said he had enough power to destroy the universe.

Show me pls.

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

I'm High 3-A because I experienced Absolute Zero temperatures and I can harm those who can harm ne

 

[Firephoenixearl]

While a lot of ppl already explained why the High 3-A isn't going through. I have been shown this thread, and im thinking:

"Do people forget you don't need to apply energy to cool something, you need to take heat from it?"

Cold is the lack of thermal energy, in other words, absolute 0 is a state where the kinetic energy of the atoms is 0, the atoms stop moving, however you don't do this to something by applying energy, you do it by taking from it. In the real world, we cannot cool something without applying work to it, as we cannot directly suck the heat out of it. We have to use refrigerators and such which have to do work to cool things down which is why we get those results. We have no special abilities like that.

However, fiction does. Anyone who can directly manipulate the heat without needing to go through complex procedures of trying to cool things down is capable of bringing something to 0 heat or 0 atomic KE without using work simply by manipulating the heat directly.

TL;DR, humans/real world cannot reach absolute 0 because it needs an infinite amount of steps, which means it needs to do an infinite amount of "work" (which in turn needs an infinite amount of energy), however that doesn't mean that people with abilities to directly manipulate the heat run into these same problems.

1 line summary:
No, no High 3-A for AZ. Y'all have fun out here.

 

[Cropfist]

Yeah, this is like giving every FTL character high universal, or giving every time stop user enhanced senses because they can see while the flow of light through their eyes is stopped.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

It needs to be explained that it was frozen by sheer conductivity such as with wind or fanning the thermal energy. Or it is done by physically attempting to slow down every atom or molecule till they all come to a complete stop. Simply flash freezing to AZ or colder than AZ isn't AP in the slightest and just hax.

Question, What would be if a character resisted the AZ by conductivity such as wind or fanning or the atoms being physically slown down?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Resisting that level would technically be durability if that method as it's withstanding an infinite amount of electronic energy striking them. But again, these still appear to be prone to outliers. I forgot Superman's Super breath would technically be another example of this method; but that also still seems iffy. Scientifically, when a object because AZ, it either needs a volume of 0 or a mass of infinite. Being able to withstand your own weight despite being frozen at AZ would require infinite lifting strength.

But regardless, I still feel like this is all in light with lightspeed feats and black hole feats.