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This is a discussion thread about the ongoing "Absolute Universe" comics imprint, a new continuity where the heroes are the underdogs struggling against a darker, oppressive world.
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Absolute Universe DC Comics Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Armorchompy
- Start date
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Following.
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I could try to make a Martian profile this weekend.
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I would be hesitant on AMM's profile because it's so abstract. Good odds the "martian" is just the life equation, too.
Do you mind if I make a few edits? I won't change the contents but there's some wording and grammar that could be improved.
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When I say Martian I meant John Jones
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Absolutely, i would appreciate it. You can change other stuff too if you want.
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Tllmbrg/SandboxAbsoluteUniverse
vsbattles.fandom.com
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Alright, I made some minor changes, then.
Ah, fair. I suppose they might share a profile, though, no?
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Sure sure.I have a sanbox for all the major guys, so eh we can probably cross referenceTllmbrg/SandboxAbsoluteUniverse
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Yea, Martian is pratically a stand for now. The P&A would just have different tabbs
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Anyways, here's my thoughts on how we should handle the different runs:
- Batman - Perfectly fine to start posting profiles, we've got two arcs done and plenty of showings of his physical abilities and combat methods.
- Superman - Fine to post his profile but it is likely subject to change, I would be surprised if he didn't get scaling to WW.
- Wonder Woman - Fine to post, same as Batman. Some annoying feats to calc.
- Martian Manhunter - Abstract as hell and maybe worth waiting before indexing the Martian, especially since out of all the existing runs this is the one with a clear end in sight, it's not an ongoing. I'm curious to see what King can cook up in a sandbox though.
- Flash - We should wait. Kid hasn't really been in any fights so far and he's still figuring out his powers.
- Green Lantern - They're clearly holding a lot of lore back, we have more to chew on than Flash but there's only been one fight and barely, I'd hold off.
How up to date are they?I have a sanbox for all the major guys, so eh we can probably cross referenceTllmbrg/SandboxAbsoluteUniverse
Probably not Batman but Bane might unironically beat Superman by existing feats LOL
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What do we think about Supes stating his flesh is sizzling with the power of a fallen star ? Do you think its legit, hyporable or just refering to him getting his powers the sun.
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This may be controversial but with a DC KO - Absolute DC crossover announced I'll pre-emptively suggest that we should be conservative in regards to scaling these characters to their main canon counterparts. The power portrayal of the Absolute verse has been a lot more grounded so far, outside of Mogo who doesn't scale to anyone.
Can I see the scan? I might've missed that.
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As far as we know that probably shouldn't be taken literally.
Anyways, I can begin work on calculations if you guys want me to. There's a few good feats in the last Absolute Batman, and Wonder Woman has a couple too.
Anyways, I can begin work on calculations if you guys want me to. There's a few good feats in the last Absolute Batman, and Wonder Woman has a couple too.
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Outside calcs for feats (So mainly stats) the P&As are up to date with published stuff (Although I obviously might've missed some stuff, I think Ozcantabak put down some resistances I missed)
Maikolpry
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Following.
I have some pages on this verse.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Absolute_Universe
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Batman_(Absolute_Universe) (I need to read the #14 issue)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Wonder_Woman_(Absolute_Universe) (I need to read a few issues to keep up to date)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Flash_(Absolute_Universe) (This one needs scans and a few other things like powers, etc.)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Black_Mask_(Absolute_Universe)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Mr._Freeze_(Absolute_Universe)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Bane_(Absolute_Universe) (I need to read the #14 issue)
I have some pages on this verse.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Absolute_Universe
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Batman_(Absolute_Universe) (I need to read the #14 issue)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Wonder_Woman_(Absolute_Universe) (I need to read a few issues to keep up to date)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Flash_(Absolute_Universe) (This one needs scans and a few other things like powers, etc.)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Black_Mask_(Absolute_Universe)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Mr._Freeze_(Absolute_Universe)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Maikolpry/Bane_(Absolute_Universe) (I need to read the #14 issue)
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The fact that Batman, WW and Superman haven't meet within the absolute universe yet makes me think that it's not gonna be the exact same characters.
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Ig it depends on how consistent things get ig. I feel we should probably wait longer to publish these profiles with the exception of Batman, given how often they've been hinting the Absolute will clash with the main DCU.
Especially with Superman, they've been hinting him a LOT in the main Superman runs.
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Chariot did some rough calcs that get the skyscraper that dropped on Bane to be like 8-B? The craters that Batman survive in are like around 8-C. The annual also has a bullet dodging feat that's probably around Supersonic-ish. He's yet to post them yet, but I'm thinking the tiers for Absolute Bats are gonna be something like:
Batman: 8-C physically. 8-B with bladed weaponry, explosives and the Batmobile
Freeze: At least 8-C
Bane: At least 8-C normally. Varies, up to 8-B with Venom
Killer Croc: At most 8-B
Batman: 8-C physically. 8-B with bladed weaponry, explosives and the Batmobile
Freeze: At least 8-C
Bane: At least 8-C normally. Varies, up to 8-B with Venom
Killer Croc: At most 8-B
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Are we sure? Even with the difference of surface area?
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The explosion is around 8-B, but he did say Bane tanking it is gonna be somewhat lower. He was kind of at the epicenter of it so it's weird.
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The drop isn't that good. The explosion from the drop on the other hand, is.
Though remember Bane's surface is like 100x a normal person as well, ISL isn't gutting things from him to much.
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The "explosion" is caused by the drop/KE, so idk, but if the CGMs agree with it, it would be mad funny 8-B Batman
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It would only scale to his weapons and prep. Physically, he remains 8-C from those craters.
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I mean, Bane tanked the building before he envolved (before his "giant" form) and he can overpower Croc who can also damage Bane, so wouldn't Bane punches scale to 8-B anyway?
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That's not what I'm saying. Plus, when he comes out, he's already in his giant form, which implies he transformed off panel right before the building hit him.
Secondly, even a casual regular Bane is easily overpowering Bruce, it's clear they are not physically on the same level like at all.
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It's kind of complex, like Bane also wasn't trying to kill Batman, he was forcing him to use Venom, though the craters he got planted in are all sorts of 9-A+ to 8-C anyway.
And Giga Bane is way tf stronger than both Croc and Batman, Croc only ***** with him with sharp stuff, then gets Thragg'd, and Batman himself is a Base Bane rival, he uses exclusively weapons to fight Venom Bane.
I wouldn't lock 8-B in yet though, but def High 8-C at minimum for him.
Going by the drafts I've done it's prob like Batman is like 9-A+, Class K, and supersonicish.
He has stuff that could push him into 8-C but it's mostly dura, he might be a tank, though Black Mask fight might cause him to scale to his own dura, I'd need to check again.
Bane is like 9-A+, 8-C to at least High 8-C on Venom, could be higher, Class M, also upscales in speed too.
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Have they? I guess we ought to wait then...
Hellbeast
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I’m also pretty sure that we can use an RPG causing explosions that dwarfed the Batmobile as proof for Building level since Batman tanks the RPG’s the Party Animals used.
So that’s more proof for Batman and Base Bane getting Building level. I would note tho that the Bane who ranked the building’s fall was his base though, and it adds up with Alfred believing he could no sell Batman’s bombs in the Issue 11 sequence.
Remember Alfred spent ages studying bAtman and has accurate rundowns on his style, safe houses and has seen his building busting bombs.
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It def wasn't base Bane, the fact the smoke clears and he's on Venom tells us he def transformed right before impact. If he didn't need to transform, he wouldn't have as seen every other time.
RPG's that big actually wouldn't be 8-C, you need something about a 30m wide 20psi explosion to hit baseline 8-C.
The RPG's in the chase def aren't 30m wide and def not 20 psi. They would be 9-A support.
Hellbeast
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Except that Bane literally laughs it off and still had to endure the strike.
Also no? We never see him Shoot up before the building falls and that’s ignoring what I mentioned about #11
Huh that’s decent then.
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Yeah, he did, not in base though. Nobody is denying that Bane ate a literal skyscraper falling on him.
Yeah we don't, we also don't see the exact instant of impact either.
The scene is portrayed in a way that heavily implies he infused venom right before impact (and throughout the fight we see that Venom can be used instantly just about).
Especially as said, if he didn't feel the need to, he wouldn't have as we saw the past 5 times they've fought.
You're conflating literal bombs lad, not every explosive Batman has on hand is going to be the same, we've seen him use tiny 9-B ones with stated yields, and we've seen him use ones that can blow out buildings, especially with varying degrees of prep, and especially from Alfred who keeps on constantly underestimating Batman.
Alfred's vision had 4 bombs blow up some cars and Bane tanks it. This is obviously usable for scaling, like Alfred fully believes that Bane would eat that just fine, and he knows at least enough about Bane for him to know his base prowess. But that feat is also only like 9-A (Bane also wasn't point-blank, though he's so huge ISL wouldn't actually tank it that much).
The bombs that Batman used to blow out the building are much larger, just visually it isn't even comparable. Then you need to factor in how many bombs did it even take? Where they placed on structural supports? etc.
It's not exactly a concrete route for scaling. Better to just calc what we see for now.
Hellbeast
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Why not in base though?
We see he’s about the same size he was when Bruce faced him the first time and that his tubes appear the way they do in base.
We also see him visibly laugh off the falling building before it impacts and then transforms to burst out of the rubble.
It’s pretty clear he wasn’t juicing on Venom there and if the intent was that Bane needed to use the Venom to srevive that it would have been more explicitly communicated
Not seeing the exact moment of impact isn’t a great argument either because we’ve got even less evidence that Bane needed the Venom to tank
Is it though? The comic shows a stylistic effect to show his juicing and we not only don’t get that here but see him on Venom only after impact.
It’s not even that insane considering base Bane is likely comparable to Bruce who apparently tanks 8-C ish craters in this very fight and his own scaling above the Batbombs. And, going further, it’s likely the energies tanked by Bane would more closely align with what we’ve seen elsewhere
Especially as said, if he didn't feel the need to, he wouldn't have as we saw the past 5 times they've fought.
The first time was to style on Bruce after already beating him and we only see him use it the once in the Ark-M issue. Bane doesn’t use Venom as the first resort across the comic
Have we? I don’t recall any stated yields for his explosives in the comic so far?
I don’t think we get a hard visual for what those explosives look like though and we already know his grenades can destroy yachts which has calcs in the 9-A - 8-C range off site
Also even if Alfred has underestimated Bruce previously, he still has great insight into his skills, knowledge and infrastructure as well as what Bane is capable of.
Except Alfred also knows of stuff like the aforementioned yacht busting so that would also be applicable here
I think you have a point regarding numbers but what reason do we have to say they targeted supports for instance, just use explosive radius and be done with it.
Eh I can live with that
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Because he's shown to not be in base literally 1 second later? As in, when it hit him, he wasn't in base?
We don't assume dude, we go with what we can confirm.
We can't confirm he was in base, but he was at least in venom, given that's what we see him in next.
What? Dude he's like 35ft tall.
He's like noctuple Batman's size even, and got so much larger his clothes got shredded.
When Batman got humbled by him the first time, Bane wasn't even twice his size.
"They don't appear the way they do in base"?
This
is not
this.
They're not even remotely comparable.
No we don't. I shouldn't have to explain how he can't laugh off the building hitting him before the building actually hit him.
He said "heh", that's it, why did he say heh? Who knows, probably because it was a smart move in a normal situation, or maybe he was impressed, or maybe he was chuckling because it was useless because he ate it a second later with venom.
Whatever the case, what you just wrote is factually impossible. Also that's straight up wrong too? He never bursts out of the debris, in fact, there's almost no debris to begin with, 90% of the building got pulped. There's no shot of him bursting out of anything, there's not even a sfx.
You need to stop adding events that never actually occur lad, all we see is it falls on him, there's an explosion, and when it clears he's standing there roided out.
That, or maybe they didn't think it was needed to exposition literally every reason he uses something if sequencing and precedence already implicates why. "Show don't tell", and all that.
And that's fallacious, nobody said he couldn't "survive" it in base, but tank it just fine 0 damage? That's something else entirely.
Notwithstanding we don't know if he could survive it in base, but that's besides the point.
Though, again, doesn't matter, it's on you to prove he did, not on me or anyone else to prove he didn't if we're shown him in venom next time we see him.
That isn't how this works.
It's on you to prove he could tank it without venom, not for me or anyone else to prove he can't. This is the ol classic fallacy ie, Argument from ignorance + Burden of proof shift. It's the same idea as those old posts that are like "well we don't see it so it COULD have happened", like yeah maybe, except we don't work on coulds, we work with "did".
We do not see the impact, what we do see, is the fact that he's shown infused with venom. We've seen throughout the comic it takes quite literally not even 1 second for him to get juiced up. The panel before impact and the impact panel is at least a few seconds apart based on the shadow and freefall of the building. We have a few seconds unaccounted for, for a character who can roid out in a fraction of a second, who is shown roided as soon as it clears.
We do not guess, we do not assume, if the comic shows something, we take what requires the least amount of assumptions unless shown otherwise.
You are effectively asking to assume he can tank it in base, just because we didn't see him NOT tank it in base.
You and I both know that isn't how this wiki works.
No it doesn't, we've seen him juice in a panel, in between punches before like in issue 10.
It's drawn out the first time it happens, but that's about it.
And if your entire argument is essentially "we don't see it so let's assume the best", it's on you to prove he took it in base, not for everyone else to disprove it. Burden of proof lad.
It's a literal magnitude difference. And "tanks", 3 of them had him ****** up. Like obviously we scale them to him, but it isn't a casual feat.
And it doesn't matter, the feat could be less even, hell it could be 9-B, or 10-A, what the result is doesn't mater, what matters is if it actually happened. And based on what we actually see, we can not assume that Bane was in base when it hit him.
Batbombs vary from like 1kg of TNT to like High 8-C. Why you acting like every bomb he makes is the same yield? They aren't.
Especially these ones, he had prep here, meanwhile the bombs you're thinking of are what Alfred assumed Batman would shove in a few cars, it's not even remotely comparable.
This is a nothing argument dude.
Ignoring the fact, again, "it could line up", isn't evidence. Could is not would.
This is conjecture at its finest, you don't even know what that "elsewhere" even is, do you?
Can you pinpoint 3 feats elsewhere in Absolute Batman that is with 3x this feat going by total energy values? That's rhetorical, you can't, you're guessing, and guessing isn't good enough, but as said above, it doesn't matter if it'd be "consistent", we simply do not have proof it happened, and if we have no proof, we go with the safer option, which is also the option that we can at least confirm he went into at some point offscreen (in which case offscreen is the impact sequence so...).
I don't even get this, you're just agreeing with me now.
It was more like Batman actively called him out on doing it, so he did to prove a point. Almost certainly never would have if Batman didn't try to undermine him by saying he was roided out.
Exactly. So why are you assuming he used it as a first resort here?
One of the earlier issues he had some C4 or some shit.
You are ong saying that this
4 blasts that didn't even reach Batman like 7m away.
Is the same as
5 grenades, so divide it by 5.
That's also ignoring fuel and stuff which would have played a part but that's besides the point.
And actually stop. Why do you keep acting like the yield is proof? It could be 11-C or 1-A, it doesn't matter, completely different feats aren't proof of your claim.
He actually doesn't, how would he know what type of bombs he can make? Why would Alfred assume Batman would blow up an entire city block and his best friend's gym and other such adjacent infrastructure with bombs just to take out Bane? He wouldn't know that, how would he? No, what he imagines, is a basic bomb trap, kind of like that time he blew up the stairs to trap normal people.
Idk what to tell you dude, but the dude who makes shit suited for the job, often makes things suited for the job and isn't always lugging around the equivalent of a ICBM. And when it comes to prep, here is no "baseline", it's whatever he prepared for that specific case.
And again, why are you acting like every bomb he makes have identical yields? We don't even KNOW how he blew up the building, he could have planted C4, semtex, batgrenades, whatever, he had days to prepare and rig the building. Unless you can prove it's the same thing he used in Alfred's imaginary sequence, there's absolutely no way we're saying they're the same yield in spite of blatant visual evidence they're not.
So? As above and below. Like this type of logic would imply that if Batman blew up a whole city with a bomb, a bomb he uses to bust down a wall must have the same yield.
This doesn't make sense in the slightest.
Because they're not stupid? I'm pretty sure the genius who has worked in infrastructure who works on a limited budget and has finite resources, who ALSO goes out of his way to fix what he breaks, is going to take the most clean path to do what needs to be done?
I can't even humor this tbh, and it's obvious he had them set in such a way. Like dude, the building managed to break along a specific line, fall in a specific direction, and hit EXCLUSIVELY Bane, and not Batman who was like 10m away. If they just went "lmao just shove bombs in there and see what happens", they'd be praying for a miracle it even falls the right way, let alone lined up perfectly.
Also you say that as if using "Explosive radius" is somehow less difficult. When in actuality it'd rely on luck, and cost more resources to do it that way.
I'm going to just say it how it is:
Prove bane took it in base. "We don't see it", isn't an excuse, that's exactly why you need to prove it to begin with.
And then prove that the bombs in Alfred's imagination are identical to the bombs that Batman uses elsewhere, or better yet, that Bruce only has one type of bomb and can't use any other type suited to the situation.
If you can't do either, idk what you want me to say, you're asking us to run with what is basically super generous guesswork.
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Can we first get an actual calc for all the stuff that happened in issue 14 before delving into these arguments?
The building explosion is worth calcing since it'd be an equipment end for Batman's tier anyways, this is not the first time he sets up a bunch of explosions as is so
The building explosion is worth calcing since it'd be an equipment end for Batman's tier anyways, this is not the first time he sets up a bunch of explosions as is so
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We already have a rough calc. I'll prob post it in a blog with others when I have some more time.
Though, I wouldn't call it "equipment tier", again, we don't actually know what he used to do it. For all we know he just shoved a few tons of C4 at some key points. It's not usable outside of prep trapwork till further notice.
But at the same time, this is important too, whether we argue it now or later doesn't matter, if it's going to be argued regardless, may as well get it out of the way now so we don't have to deal with it later, and it isn't like the calc's end result changes what it scales to.
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Weird enough, would Batman be Peak Human at best? I don't remember any speed feat other than some upscaling from a guy who is stated to be capable to catch bullets from 20 meters. The annual issue also doesn't seem to have any feats from what I have seen
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