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About "stronger=hax resistant" stuff
- Thread starter ProfessorKukui4Life
- Start date
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- dragon ball hax
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Not like my input should matter too much on the matter, but I don't really think it needs to be discussed further.
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Since we are specifically talking about DB here, I would like to point out why having enough ki = more hax resistant is a thing in this fandom.
- Chaozu's telekinesis worked fine when everyone was around his level, right? The moment Nappa came with a humongous ki difference, Chaozu had no effect on him.
- Then there is limitations to Shenron's reality warping. He can only do so much and nobody here would ever extrapolate his reality warping to work on Beerus, or say Hit. lol it didn't even work well on Android 18. He tried to make her human but ended up by only removing her bomb.
- Freeza easily killed Krillin with his telekinesis and making him explode. Why do you think he didn't use it on Goku, when he had clear intentions of killing him?
- Kaioshin was sure he would hold Gohan still using his tk, unless he saw Gohan go ssj2 and then he said he wouldn't be able to do it for long.
- There is Vegeta resisting Babidi's mind control and I know that he did it because he is mentally strong. But why would he go ssj2 while doing so? Does his mind become more resistant than it is in base?
- Krillin didn't keep his strength when he was turned to chocolate by Buu, did he? Yet Vegito who was stronger than Buu was able to keep his strength after turning into candy.
- Future Trunks was able to slap away Dabura's stone spit with his ki infused hand.
- Goku resisted Hit's time stop after powering up enough.
- Then there are potaras which can't keep beings with higher ki fused for long.
- Goku, in base had trouble resisting Sidra's energy of destruction, while Freeza who was already powered up, did it relatively easily.
- Vegeta broke out of absolute zero as soon as he powered up.
- Goku while on the same level as Hit was able to block his intangible attacks with his ki infused punch, while Jiren who was much stronger than Hit did it with relative ease.
- Jiren was stuck in Hit's time lock in the start, but as soon as his eyes fired up, indicating that he powered up, he was able to resist it.
- Jiren is the only one shown to resist GP's flight nullification hax, because he is that strong. One could argue he is using tk, but what would be the point of banning flight when people can use tk to fly.
...............................
Now if you read all of that, you'd know that every hax mentioned above has shown to have limits. And higher ki has resisted it. I am sure nobody here thinks that :
- Rabbit guy could've turned every villain until now to carrots.
- Devilman could've killed every villain until now with his devilbeam.
- General Blue could've immobilized every villain up until now.
- Shenron can reality warp anyone.
- Roshi could've hypnotised every major villain.
- Guldo's time stop would work on the likes of current DBS characters.
- Buu could've transmuted or absorbed every DBS villain up until now.
- Hit can successfully perform his toki-tobashi on Merged Zamasu.
- Beerus can hakai Zeno or GP.
- Or any other hax in the whole DB franchise up until now would work on the likes of GP.
- Chaozu's telekinesis worked fine when everyone was around his level, right? The moment Nappa came with a humongous ki difference, Chaozu had no effect on him.
- Then there is limitations to Shenron's reality warping. He can only do so much and nobody here would ever extrapolate his reality warping to work on Beerus, or say Hit. lol it didn't even work well on Android 18. He tried to make her human but ended up by only removing her bomb.
- Freeza easily killed Krillin with his telekinesis and making him explode. Why do you think he didn't use it on Goku, when he had clear intentions of killing him?
- Kaioshin was sure he would hold Gohan still using his tk, unless he saw Gohan go ssj2 and then he said he wouldn't be able to do it for long.
- There is Vegeta resisting Babidi's mind control and I know that he did it because he is mentally strong. But why would he go ssj2 while doing so? Does his mind become more resistant than it is in base?
- Krillin didn't keep his strength when he was turned to chocolate by Buu, did he? Yet Vegito who was stronger than Buu was able to keep his strength after turning into candy.
- Future Trunks was able to slap away Dabura's stone spit with his ki infused hand.
- Goku resisted Hit's time stop after powering up enough.
- Then there are potaras which can't keep beings with higher ki fused for long.
- Goku, in base had trouble resisting Sidra's energy of destruction, while Freeza who was already powered up, did it relatively easily.
- Vegeta broke out of absolute zero as soon as he powered up.
- Goku while on the same level as Hit was able to block his intangible attacks with his ki infused punch, while Jiren who was much stronger than Hit did it with relative ease.
- Jiren was stuck in Hit's time lock in the start, but as soon as his eyes fired up, indicating that he powered up, he was able to resist it.
- Jiren is the only one shown to resist GP's flight nullification hax, because he is that strong. One could argue he is using tk, but what would be the point of banning flight when people can use tk to fly.
...............................
Now if you read all of that, you'd know that every hax mentioned above has shown to have limits. And higher ki has resisted it. I am sure nobody here thinks that :
- Rabbit guy could've turned every villain until now to carrots.
- Devilman could've killed every villain until now with his devilbeam.
- General Blue could've immobilized every villain up until now.
- Shenron can reality warp anyone.
- Roshi could've hypnotised every major villain.
- Guldo's time stop would work on the likes of current DBS characters.
- Buu could've transmuted or absorbed every DBS villain up until now.
- Hit can successfully perform his toki-tobashi on Merged Zamasu.
- Beerus can hakai Zeno or GP.
- Or any other hax in the whole DB franchise up until now would work on the likes of GP.
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The No Limits Fallacy is going to come into play at some point.
A 4-dimensional mind would not be affected by 3-dimensional mindhax. 4-dimensional beings are spatially above us, and thus can perceive and fathom concepts that 3-dimensional beings would perceive as paradoxical or nonsensical.
Naturally a 3-Dimensional being wouldn't be able to shimmy their way into a 4-dimensional being's mind.
A 4-dimensional mind would not be affected by 3-dimensional mindhax. 4-dimensional beings are spatially above us, and thus can perceive and fathom concepts that 3-dimensional beings would perceive as paradoxical or nonsensical.
Naturally a 3-Dimensional being wouldn't be able to shimmy their way into a 4-dimensional being's mind.
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"Can perceive higher concepts" isn't in any way a free ticket to immunity to mind manipulation. This is purely spatial/mathematical. Of course stuff like Cthulhu being too much for a mortal's mind won't affect a 4-D.
You seem to imply that every mind hax works in a way that wouldn't work against a 4-D, which isn't the case.
You seem to imply that every mind hax works in a way that wouldn't work against a 4-D, which isn't the case.
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@AKM sama Telekinesis isn't really hax since anyone with a sufficient amount of strength can break out of it. You don't need have high amounts of ki or hax resistance either. Telekinesis has the power to restrain and move people with your mind, thus any character whose strength is greater than their mind can overcome it, just like how a stronger character can overcome a physically weaker being.
Shenron's reality warping is dependent on the namekian that controls it. Its not strong because the owner is not strong. Not because of hax resistance.
Shenron's reality warping is dependent on the namekian that controls it. Its not strong because the owner is not strong. Not because of hax resistance.
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Hakai is also kinda stated to not work on people with a certain level of immortality.
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inb4 Zamasu has Mid-Godly regen because Hakai won't work on him.
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@Cal manga thing only (Which is kinda weird since it actually worked on Merged Zamasu in the very manga too)
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Anyways I agree with a lot of people here. We can't assume that someone will always negate a durability negating hax from anyone weaker than them as that would be a blatant NLF.
However we also can't say that a durability negating hax will just work on anyone who hasn't directly resisted that specific power (which I see used far more often on this site) as that also reaches NLF. I mean it's starting to get to a point where I wouldn't be surprised if some people have a Tier 9 with petrification curbstomp a 2-B because he's never directly shown to resist it.
It's about finding a balance and determining characters on their own in a case by case basis. Rather than trying to create one set standard as a whole that applies to everyone ever.
However we also can't say that a durability negating hax will just work on anyone who hasn't directly resisted that specific power (which I see used far more often on this site) as that also reaches NLF. I mean it's starting to get to a point where I wouldn't be surprised if some people have a Tier 9 with petrification curbstomp a 2-B because he's never directly shown to resist it.
It's about finding a balance and determining characters on their own in a case by case basis. Rather than trying to create one set standard as a whole that applies to everyone ever.
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It varies to much.
I mean it'd be ridiculous to say hax from a wall level character would affect a universe level character unless it's shown.
If The verse uses the logic of "If X character is Z amount stronger than Y character, then Y characters abilities don't work on X" it should be listed on the profile.
I mean it'd be ridiculous to say hax from a wall level character would affect a universe level character unless it's shown.
If The verse uses the logic of "If X character is Z amount stronger than Y character, then Y characters abilities don't work on X" it should be listed on the profile.
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I also agree with Ryukama. It was basically what I was trying to say, except better worded.
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I have created a new thread here:Blanked said:
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1087383
I will close this discussion, and remove the highlight.
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