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About Stomp matches

The real cal howard said:
I feel like at this point, even Death Battle is better at deciding matches than us.
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Well Death Battle allows stomps, so they don't have to worry about adding battles to profiles or people closing it beforehand. So they have an easier time than us in deciding matches. Not the best comparison....but at the same time....frighteningly accurate...
 
Im just here to voice my opinion on the topic. Im just saying that it is really unnecessary for these 2 cases to be deemed as "stomps". They seem fair enough and should be added. In both cases the players are of a similar nature/potency and would win in a scenario that's not SBA.

Case 1 would win in a scenario where the battle is bloodlusted, or if he had some knowledge on what to start.

Case 2 would win if he started behind her for example or if he were allowed to stealth.

But anyway that's all i had. It's going to be really bad if we keep saying "oh it's a stomp". At this rate we gonna get to having 90% of fights be stomps cus it's not a coin toss.
 
I'll say this: it's not enough for a character simply to have a way to win. That method must be reasonable and possible.

The difference between a decisive matchup and a stomp would go like this:

Decisive: Both characters could reasonably win but one character has some qualities that tip things in their favor.

Stomp: A character possesses no way to win, will never even be able to fight back in the first place or their chances of winning are so remote you can't even seriously consider them viable.

Also beware redundant matchups.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Case 1 would win in a scenario where the battle is bloodlusted, or if he had some knowledge on what to start.

Case 2 would win if he started behind her for example or if he were allowed to stealth.

But anyway that's all i had. It's going to be really bad if we keep saying "oh it's a stomp". At this rate we gonna get to having 90% of fights be stomps cus it's not a coin toss.
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case 1 then just bloodlust them

case 2 The first would be giving unfair advatnage to one of the chracters, then second wouldn't work a lot of the time.

and no, this changes would not affect 90% of all matches, not even close to that. Most matches aren't over in a istant from the start of the battle
 
So basically the part about Luke mainly refers to "One-Trick Ponies"?

They have one very potent ability, which they spam: if it works, they stomp, if it doesn't, then you are likely the type of guy who can no-sell everything else they have.
 
The real cal howard said:
I feel like at this point, even Death Battle is better at deciding matches than us.
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DB has only so many people working with each other towards a common and, I daresay, static goal.

VBW has a huge community with differing ideas, viewpoints, goals, etc.

Not too mention that we are constantly talking, musing and changing things here on site while DB hasn't changed too much.
 
What should be the criteria is

1) Can they hurt each other?

2) If yes, is the fight over in five seconds?

3) If no, the match is good.
 
@Cal Add one in between 2 and 3: Does one character have to act severely out of character to win?
 
I don't know anymore. I mean if Joseph Joestar can beat Kars despite the latter being better than Joseph in every conceivable way possible, why can't someone who has one way to kill a guy in a fair match considered a stomp?
 
Unless regen or some other form of insane survivability comes into play, that doesn't need to be added, as beating your opponent to death is always a wincon
 
I think we more and more have a tendency to call any match with a certain outcome a stomp.

If we knew all variables we could decide any fight to 100% certainty. Meaning that if we define stomps just as a character having a 0%, or near 0%, chance of winning knowing too much about how a fight would go would make it a stomp.

I'm rather opposed to the idea that knowing more about a fight makes it stomp worthy, if characters are otherwise pretty much equal.


I think the problem comes from the fact that we mix the idea of non-notable threads with the idea of stomp threads, because the latter are basically the only kinds of threads we currently don't add.

As I proposed once before something can be notable, for our purposes, even if it is a stomp in the end.

Likewise a match that is not a stomp, can also be non-notable. E.g. Standoff between two cowboys, but one draws his gun 0.1s faster than the other. That is so close stat and ability wise that it is no stomp, by what I think the term should include at least, but it also isn't notable as there is no debating the result.

Whether I would call a fight where a character easily wins, because a technique is out of character for the opponent, notable depends on the profile. If the fact that the ability is out of character is mentioned on the profile it would not be notable. If it is not on the profile I would call it notable, as we learned an important detail of how the character fights in the match making it a valuable addition to the knowledge presented on the profile. (Yes, I really want that fighting style sectio)

All in all we should maybe not equalize something being notable for us, with it being fair or balanced, but instead think more of if something makes for an interesting debate or is a valuable addition to a profiles information.
 
Well then, if this passes, we can add Altair to the ever growing list of characters who are never getting fair matches. (SCP-1440, Reinhard, etc.)
 
DMB 1 said:
1) Joseph defeated Kars due to sheer luck unless you wanna count that being in a match.

2) Just because a fight happened in canon, that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a stomp due to our standards.
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That moment when you, as an 8-C, can legit defeat an 8-A via sheer luck without having a supernatural luck
 
Btw, do we count someone simply having an "overkill move" as a stomp?

For example, We have two characters with guns fighting, both capable of killing each other with one shot, but one shot slightly faster won.

Now imagine that the guy who shot faster has, I don't know, 1-A erasure, but other than that, the match doesn't change in any way. Do we count it as a stomp by default?
 
Sir Ovens said:
Well then, if this passes, we can add Altair to the ever growing list of characters who are never getting fair matches. (SCP-1440, Reinhard, etc.)
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That's why they suck, fite me

I said that I'm unfollowing this, but since this thread was highlighted for some reason, I think I should add my own two cents.

Like DontTalk said, mismatches are a thing. And one character stomping the other is not the only instance of a mismatch, it is also characters being poorly balanced (i. e. one character being several tiers above the other, while the latter has hax to kill the former so the first guy's monstrous strength advantage means nothing in the end). Those other reasons should be discussed during the match, obviously.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm just salty that I never got to use the "Mindhax B*&$%" template and now I probably never will.
 
MrKingOfNegativity said:
I'm not touching this one.
Although I will say that, having exactly one wincon VS your opponent having like ten or so is what I would call a stomp. Not because "lol OOC", but because "one character having over a dozen ways to kill a character VS the latter only having one" pretty much inarguably meets the qualifications for a stomp, regardless of whether or not the opponent's exact one ability is in character.
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Yogiri Takatou versus Ajimu Najimi.
 
I think that his point is that "Obviously this one scenario nullifies what MrKing was saying, because it's a match where the guy with one power beats the character with several". To which I would counter:

  • Character X has one move that they always, 100% open with and it kills Character Y no matter what.
  • Character X has one move that kills Character Y, but they don't open with it, or don't use it every time they fight.
  • Character X has one move that kills Character Y, but it doesn't outpace any of the dozen or so ways in which Character Y can kill Character X.
In a matchup like that, those are your options for how it's going to end. Mind telling me which one the average person in this thread wouldn't consider a stomp?

That was my point.
 
As an example of my above point, take Amo (Hybrid Form) and Goku (MUI). With speed equal Goku absolutely one taps Amon like no one's business, and will continue to put him down every Regenerationn... if Amon didn't just think.

Amon will always lead with mental domination, and thus always win. It doesn't matter that Goku has the means to win if he will never be able to use that win condition. It is 100-0 in Amon's favor even with Goku's hypothetical ability to win.
 
The second is a stomp when Character Y has ten different ways to kill Character X if Character X doesn't open with their one ability.

Which was what I said the first time around.
 
Just to be clear, we need to be sure that we distinguish between a character not being able to win and a character simply not going for their win options. The previous is a stomp, the latter isn't.

The match that inspired this thread was Momo Momozono vs Undead Ba. In the match, Momo wins in almost any outcome that the 2 are in character. This isn't due to Ban not being able to win, it's because he doesn't spam instant Zero Sign to Organ stealing while Momo spams her sealing as soon as the match starts. If Ban was either bloodlusted or given intel, then the match would become a coin flip. Ban even uses the move that is his win condition against an opponent he knows can take him out. Hence, it is not a stomp.

I think we should make this as unsubjective as possible. As long both sides have win conditions it isn't a stomp, whether or not the target will use their win conditions is another matter. However, the exception to that is matches where the win conditions are so minuscule that random luck is comparable in likelyhood to grant victory. Ex. Joseph vs Kars. Joseph has win conditions, but they are are almost as likely as a random asteroid falling from the sky and hitting Kars. Makes sense, right?
 
Kepekley23 said:
I absolutely agree with the former.
Trying to exploit an ability that is so ridiculously out of character and act like that ability which they will never, ever, ever conceivably use in an actual fight makes the match fair is a terrible practice.

Let's have some common sense, please.
Click to expand...
Where do we draw the line tho? This leaves it as incredibly subjective. My recommendation is that if a character is almost as likely to just win by random luck, then it is considered a stomp. A character having win conditions but not going for them should not make it a stomp. For example, Lancer of Black (Vlad III) not going for his vampire form in character shouldn't make the times he loses because he doesn't go for it a stomp
 
@Iapitus

I made this threat before finding that battle

I made this in responce to something that happened in the match removal thread
 
I said I wasn't touching this one. I need to stop lying to myself.

Just to elaborate further, if both characters have multiple ways to kill their opponent, but one loses because they won't go for their most potent winning options right away, then the match isn't what I would call a stomp. The two are evenly matched; one is simply more likely to do the thing that works.

If a character only has one winning ability that isn't even guaranteed to be their opener, then that is a stomp. But one character having multiple ways to win and not using any of them in time is just that character succumbing to CIS.
 
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