About SCP-2935 Event (And character scaling)

[RinneItachi]

SCP-2935 killed 682 (I presume Article Canon?) and a weakened Scarlet King. Is it believed that this weakened Scarlet King is so inferior to the High 1-A version linked on the page, that the gap is at least by an entire tier?

If not, would this not mean SCP-3812 scales infinitely above a weakened High 1-A being? As the author of both SCP's confirmed that SCP-3812 is so far above 2935 on a narrative scale that 2935 cannot kill 3812, yet 2935 can kill The Scarlet King. Are these WoG statements somehow considered outdated?

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[Itzmrbonezone]

I presume it might be Kaktusverse version of Scarlet King, but I'm not sure. Following

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The Devourer (aka SCP-2317) isn't exactly the Scarlet King. At least not the main entity. It's just an avatar with no real feats of its own. Killing it via hax means nothing.

Nevermind the fact that this is Kaktusverse, and Kaktusverse SK is nowhere near High 1-A.

 

[Kirinator07]

Is there even a Placeholder SCP-3812?

 

[Gasper]

Is there even a Placeholder SCP-3812?

No

 

[Gasper]

Is there even a Placeholder SCP-3812?

But now that you mention it, shouldn't there also be kaktusverse version of SCP-3812? Like he would only scale to kaktusverse cosmology.

 

[Kirinator07]

But now that you mention it, shouldn't there also be kaktusverse version of SCP-3812? Like he would only scale to kaktusverse cosmology.

There already is one, its the main article of SCP-3812.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

SCP-3812 doesn't particularly gain anything from scaling to Kaktusverse stuff outside of its own article. So Kaktusverse and Article Canon are practically the same here.

 

[Gasper]

SCP-3812 doesn't particularly gain anything from scaling to Kaktusverse stuff outside of its own article. So Kaktusverse and Article Canon are practically the same here.

But my point is if we already have tier 0 kaktusverse characters (IS/IS NOT) shouldn't SCP-3812 scale above them? Didn't kaktus said 3812 is the strongest character in his own canon?

 

[Gasper]

Also, one unrelated question, can 682 get his leviathan key back? Like, why was it removed? Djoric said 682 is a lesser leviathan from the ones who damaged the tree of knowledge but should still be his Higher dimensional form in Djoric canon, or am i wrong?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I don't think Kaktus said that. SCP-3812 is defined as climbing the ladder of reality. But that would still make him inferior to the Gods who shaped reality to begin with, such as the Paragons. And definitively below the absolute sum of reality, IS. It really doesn't make sense for SCP-3812 to ascend past these people, especially since his ascension is caused by interactions with higher authors, whose power shouldn't be able to touch Paragons.

Also absolutely not. The Leviathan key was always extremely cringe. It's just the name of the species 682 belongs to. Some mystical higher dimensional 682 doesn't exist (other than 6820-A), and the best you could say about Leviathans is that they're vaguely higher than 682.

 

[Gasper]

I don't think Kaktus said that. SCP-3812 is defined as climbing the ladder of reality. But that would still make him inferior to the Gods who shaped reality to begin with, such as the Paragons. And definitively below the absolute sum of reality, IS. It really doesn't make sense for SCP-3812 to ascend past these people, especially since his ascension is caused by interactions with higher authors, whose power shouldn't be able to touch Paragons.

Also absolutely not. The Leviathan key was always extremely cringe. It's just the name of the species 682 belongs to. Some mystical higher dimensional 682 doesn't exist (other than 6820-A), and the best you could say about Leviathans is that they're vaguely higher than 682.

Ok

I would also like to ask what is the argument for SCP-2747 that links to SCP-3812? Is this SCP-2747 just in fake narratives or something? Also, even if we say SCP-3812 narratives are the real narratives place already said that 'fake' narratives can exist which dosen't change the scaling.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

2747 and 3812 don't really interact in any quantifiable way. And either way, 2747 can manifest however it wants to. It could easily manifest in the Kaktusverse narratives.

 

[RinneItachi]

Kaktus did intend for 3812 to be the strongest. In fact his intent essentially was a character that pretty much existed as the definition of an NLF. Had these for a while so might as well share them here.

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[RinneItachi]

Oh and I should throw in this one.

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[RinneItachi]

You could also throw this in there.

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[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah. Except he's also described SCP-3812 as ascending reality, the one embodied by IS. 3812 is still just climbing the reality of IS, and IS NOT is still the void which all of reality, including SCP-3812, rests on.

So much of this is tied into the sort of djkaktus brand hierarchy of the SCPverse. In 3812 I talk at length about how reality looks as you ascend it, but this (and, to a certain extent, 3000) are about what's at the bottom. Reality rests on an endless void, and between that void and what can be considered real is the hard line between what is, and what isn't. We are what is, and the void (and anything that passes beyond it) and, again, to a certain extent Anantashesha, are what isn't.

While it's not entirely impossible 3812 could scale to the Paragons eventually, I'm still leaning towards no. The Paragons are very closely linked to IS and are the architects of the reality SCP-3812 ascends. By that description, I don't think it's ever implied SCP-3812 would transcend 'reality', he would simply ascend higher levels

I expected that, and there are certainly a lot of similarities between the two. The difference, I think, is that 3812 doesn't destroy narratives - whether it can or not is irrelevant because it doesn't ever seem interested in it. The Darkbody only wants one thing though and it's ******* disgusting /meme

That being said, you can definitely imagine the two of them almost like brothers. They're not opposites, but similar situations brought them into existence and although their destinies are as far removed from each other as you could imagine, I think they'd find a certain kind of kinship together.

Kaktus also compared 3812 and Kaktus III, heavily implying their scope is similar. And as the Serpent's Library is said to connect all universes together (in the same tale which featured Kaktus III), it is likely that the Serpent also exists beyond the scope of all stories. SCP-3812 can't become real-er than things beyond the scope of reality itself, or things that define reality itself. The mechanics of how SCP-3812 functions do not let that happen, no matter the Kaktus hype statements.

 

[RinneItachi]

Yeah. Except he's also described SCP-3812 as ascending reality, the one embodied by IS. 3812 is still just climbing the reality of IS, and IS NOT is still the void which all of reality, including SCP-3812, rests on.



While it's not entirely impossible 3812 could scale to the Paragons eventually, I'm still leaning towards no. The Paragons are very closely linked to IS and are the architects of the reality SCP-3812 ascends. By that description, I don't think it's ever implied SCP-3812 would transcend 'reality', he would simply ascend higher levels



Kaktus also compared 3812 and Kaktus III, heavily implying their scope is similar. And as the Serpent's Library is said to connect all universes together (in the same tale which featured Kaktus III), it is likely that the Serpent also exists beyond the scope of all stories. SCP-3812 can't become real-er than things beyond the scope of reality itself, or things that define reality itself. The mechanics of how SCP-3812 functions do not let that happen, no matter the Kaktus hype statements.

They definitely aren't just "hype statements", those are much different, but I do agree with your argument.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I mean they pretty much are just hype statements. Stating how something is the strongest thing in fiction or whatever. The more concrete ones are stuff we already know anyway (2935 being limited to a single universe, obviously it wouldn't be able to get 3812).

 

[RinneItachi]

I mean they pretty much are just hype statements. Stating how something is the strongest thing in fiction or whatever. The more concrete ones are stuff we already know anyway (2935 being limited to a single universe, obviously it wouldn't be able to get 3812).

Hype statements are statements meant to elicit excitement through trying to convey how strong a character is in an enticing way. These can be positive or negative statements, like calling a character omnipotent, or saying that a city buster stomping with the force of 100 tons is some insane thing. It isn't meant to be taken seriously and is just meant to be exciting. He isn't doing that, he's just saying what 3812 is and how strong he is in a pretty casual manner because he was asked.