about godly regen in undertale,downgrade

[Ricsi-viragosi]

but, it still doesent fit the description of mid godly, and asriel is an exemple to how DT can ressurect dead beings with parts of theire bodies (as show by his dust and DT making flowey)

 

[RRTheEndMan]

I'm not experienced or such, but won't even an atom being left qualify for high regen?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

RRTheEndMan wrote:
I'm not experiefnced or such, but won't even an atom being left qualify for high regen?
only if the body regenerated, not soul, my point still stands

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Asriel became Flowey, though.

Chara was literally nothing. They even mention that they only came back once you arrived.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

This still sounds non combat applicable (due to his abstract existence, it doesn't matter), as it requires a powerful soul (namely, Frisk's) to resonate with them.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Asriel became Flowey, though.
Chara was literally nothing. They even mention that they only came back once you arrived.

flowey became flowey by attaching his mind to a body with dt

chara became gerself by attaching to something wtih a lot of dt

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Cal

Pre-"Absolute" Chara?

Yes, very. They dead for years.

Post-"Absolute" Chara had taken the source of what revived them, in the first place.

@Ricsi

Yes. After being dead for years and years. This is not the case with Flowey.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

@Cal


@Ricsi

Yes. After being dead for years and years. This is not the case with Flowey.

i fail to see how time affect it. there is omething with dt close to a corpse, a mind goes into it.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Flowey grew right where Asriel's dust was, had DT directed directly into his body, and inhabited a vessel that did not have a mind, beforehand.

Chara had their SOUL absorbed by Asriel, the combination of which was then destroyed. Chara, despite having lost the thing that allows humans to persist after death, latches onto another sentient DT user years later, eventually becoming an their own being once they grow strong enough. They did not have a blank host like Flowey did, nor was it actually connected to their body.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

"Absolute" Chara is such a cool name...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"Absolute" Chara is such a cool name...

"It's me, Vodka."

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Flowey grew right where Asriel's dust was, had DT directed directly into his body, and inhabited a vessel that did not have a mind, beforehand.
Chara had their SOUL absorbed by Asriel, the combination of which was then destroyed. Chara, despite having lost the thing that allows humans to persist after death, latches onto another sentient DT user years later, eventually becoming an their own being once they grow strong enough. They did not have a blank host like Flowey did, nor was it actually connected to their body.

but 5they still had a body that was right where frisk fell, and asriesls dust fell onto the flowers, the flower was not his body.

chraras soul being absorbed is a nonfactor here, as bodyes have been shown to containg someones mind, monsters dont have anything to keep them going after death, period. its still not mid

the flower wasent connected to asriel, juist some dust fell on it. and how does iot not being a blank slate make it so that we equate charas mind laching unto another being and getting stronger regen, and not ressurection or parasitic immortality?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Again:

• Frisk never makes contact with Chara's remains. They just land in the local vicinity.

• Asriel's dust is his actual remains. Unlike human bodies, monster dust is explicitly tied to their essence, as their bodies and souls are so heavily connected. Human remains are not comparable.

"Monster funerals, technically speaking, are cool as heck. When monsters get old and kick the bucket, they turn into dust. At funerals, we take that dust and spread it on that person's favorite thing. Then their essence will live on in that thing..."

• Chara's immortality is initially parasitic. This doesn't matter at the end of the route as they take the very thing which fuelled said immortality, in the first place.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

i do not see how not making direct contact equates it to theire mind body and soul being erased

and? there is no reason to belive that a human body cant contain someones mind

it is never said that a human does not fit this, nor is there any reason to belive it


that doesent change the fact that immortality doesent give mid godly regen unless you change its definition

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Asriel died, dude. He absorbed Chara's SOUL. Their SOUL was gone.

Except, as we're told for humans, their SOUL is the very culmination of their being, and is the thing that allows them to persist, after death. Monsters do not have this benefit, and have bodies and souls that are very much intertwined. Unless we're directly told human remains contain their minds, which contradicts lore anyway, there's no reason to believe it.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

flowey describes SOULs in general as culmination of theire being, and human bodies are left back anyways. and mid goldy would mean that they can come back from soul and body being erased, but that cannot happen, as what gives them the ability to come back is DT which is whitin the SOUL and couldent bring chara back if erased

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Again, Chara had no SOUL, yet they awoke because of your DETERMINATION. They came back, despite having nothing, merely from the Player showing up in the world, and eventually become an existence separate from the world of the game, taking the thing which allowed them to come back in the first place.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

yes, but they need the determination to do that, which is not something mid godly allows, as the determination would get erased in the first place

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

But why, though? By the end of the game, they're taking the Player's DETERMINATION, not Frisk's, which could (and did) just come back after the game was erased, as it's not tied to it.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

But why, though? By the end of the game, they're taking the Player's DETERMINATION, not Frisk's, which could (and did) just come back after the game was erased, as it's not tied to it.

that is tipe 8 immortality, not mid godly Regenerationn. for it to be mid godly they very exictence, DT included, would need to be erased.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

DT is a power, though. It's not their existence itself.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

DT is a power, though. It's not their existence itself.

its also a concept that every human has, it still counts as type 8, maybe 4 if you say its the anomaly that allows them to keep using it

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Reliant Immortality: The power to be immortal so long as a certain object, person, concept etc. exists.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yes, but said concept is not Chara. Nullifying the very concept of DETERMINATION would negate their regen, but that does not make it something less than Mid-Godly.

Having Reliant Immortality does not exclude you from Mid-Godly levels of regen.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

erm, no. being unklillable while a concept exict is reliant immortality

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

As I said above, stronger types of Immortality and Regen are not mutually exclusive powers.

At this level, the vast majority of characters have both.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

As I said above, stronger types of Immortality and Regen are not mutually exclusive powers.
At this level, the vast majority of characters have both.

but it was never shown. they only shoved parasitic immortality, after which it became reliant immortality.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

i hope you do know the difference between destroyed and erased. chara simply died, she wasent erased, ever

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Again, the point isn't that some attack erased Chara. It's that they stopped existing. Chara's decomposed corpse has no link to Chara's self after death, as that's what the human SOUL is for. Chara's was destroyed. If Chara's disembodied consciousness had been the source of them coming back in the first place, that would be Low-Godly. But it's not, because we know Chara mentions their consciousness being "awakened from death" at the beginning of the game, meaning there was indeed a point where said disembodied consciousness no longer existed.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

but it was dt that brought them back, making it ressurection, not regen. and said dt simply gave them immortality

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yes, I'm aware. I never said Chara possessed Mid-Godly when they were normal and at the beginning of the game.

The idea is, at the start of the game, Chara has no consciousness and no SOUL. They are entirely dead.

Frisk + the Anomaly show up, and the DT brings Chara back.

At the end of the game, Chara erases the game. The Anomaly comes back to the world that no longer exists, and Chara takes their SOUL.

Chara now has the Anomaly's SOUL, which provided them with the DT to be revived in the first place. This means Chara now has the Anomaly's DT, meaning Chara now has the thing that fuels their regen. Meanwhile, the Anomaly's SOUL is not actually Chara's, and instead is just used for them to take DETERMINATION from.

Chara gains the means to regenerate by the end of the game and by then only. Previously, it was outside help.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

that is type 8 immortality, as if the anomalys soul is destroyed, it cannot bring chara back. mid godly would mean that they can regenarate whitout outside help while they were completly erased, SOUL included

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Presumably, yes. But it is a Type 8 Immortality that entails Mid-Godly regen. If this was disabled and someone erased the idea they represent, they could not regenerate. But as I said, these things are not mutually exclusive. They are built upon one another.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

but if the anomalys soul was erased, which is part of chara, they wouldent be able to regenarate, which makes it tipe 8 with maybe resurrection. its the same reason bill has ressurection, not regenaration

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The Anomaly's SOUL is not part of Chara, though. It is separate, as Chara is not like a monster who has the ability to absorb/merge with human SOULs. They simply seem to be using it for DETERMINATION.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

it was sold to chara and they own it. and once again, mid godly doesent work with outside help, that is plain ressurection

 

[RRTheEndMan]

Yes. After being dead for years and years. This is not the case with Flowey.

Asriel died like just after chara...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Again, it is not outside help, and something Chara owns does not make it part of their being.

@RR

Flowey was around long before Chara was brought back from death, though.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Again, it is not outside help, and something Chara owns does not make it part of their being.
@RR

Flowey was around long before Chara was brought back from death, though.

that dosent make it in any way Regenerationn, its plain ressurection and tipe 8 immortality

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

the fact that she owns it doesent change that her power to come back relies on it, making it simply tipe 8