About certain content

[Colonel_Krukov]

I am really sorry and I don't want to offend people with this but...

I am not happy about having to see lewd content when I navigate the wiki and when I'm in chat. I've had to put up with this for a while and I've spoken to people privately about how I don't like it. Even mentioning the slightest mention makes me uncomfortable.

It's part of our rules, and when I see not only regular members, but staff posting this too, I just don't know how to feel...

I have a document that contains screenshots and links to such content that has offended me in the past and just recently. Here (Some content is old, some is recent)

I am already of ill health, and this makes me feel worse, so could we please put a permanent stop to this.

I don't want to come across as offensive in any nature, and I apologise if this has made you have a negative opinion towards me.

NOTE:Staff only thread, if you wish to make a comment, leave a message on my wall

 

[Promestein]

Don't apologize for trying to make this wiki a less stressful place for you to be.

We definitely need to maintain and comply with these parts of the rules, staff or not.

 

[Sera_EX]

Going on and on about this will only bring more chaos and disorder among us. We need to find a common middle ground and keep it that way. Otherwise we're going back in circles to what I have discussed with plenty of staff before since I became a mod.

At this point, it's redundant.

 

[Promestein]

If members are going to talk about NSFW topics like these on here, they should do it on PM, and not on the public chat. I think that's a fitting middle ground.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I don't think anyone is going to have a negative opinion of you towards this, though it can be important to speak up (this thread is a good start). You have to understand that many people are far more desensitized to mildly lewd content and won't notice a problem if you don't say anything.

If you are feeling uncomfortable and simply ask for a change of subject or something similar, the majority of people will be completely fine with that and understand, and likely not make you uncomfortable in the future. If you don't say anything, people who you have not talked to will not understand how you are feeling, and things will not automatically get better.

There is nothing whatsoever wrong with how you feel, but communication is important.

 

[Thebluedash]

https://gyazo.com/13364cf65193eab543815a149961e677

To Love Ru and any other echhi are allowed here, its been discussed before. The images things in chat sure whatever, but we're not removing the profiles.

 

[Sera_EX]

I certainly agree.

 

[Thebluedash]

https://gyazo.com/ffd9db437ee98a414863711a506e1aed

https://gyazo.com/50e7306725b33c402a35ea0b2f2222bf

There's a lot more, but I'll use these ones as examples. These are not lewd. First example, EMC is simply saying there's more eroge VNs than normal ones, which is actually true. Second is just someone mentioning the word incest. They didn't describe it at all or anything.

I really hate for this chat to become worse and worse as it seems to be getting lately. As I said in my other comment, sure I agree, but some of these things aren't lewd at all, at best they're kinda lewd (First and 2nd here not all).

 

[Sera_EX]

I have to agree with Blue. There's a difference between mentioning eroge and incest and showing it. As long as no one accuses anyone here of incest for example) it's not that bad. However, mentioning rape, masturbarion, and the like is definitely not okay. Look, I've done what I can, but let's not censor chat any further.

I've grown tired of this already. Can we just all get along?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we obviously cannot make our rules even stricter than they already are, given that this would go beyond trying to make our jobs easier by lessening public conflict, and reach complete speech censorship territory instead.

However, your complaint would be much easier to overview if you included all of the individual links in your first post.

That said, I also do not like lewd speech, and normally I would simply suggest to avoid the chat, if it makes you uncomfortable, although in your case you are technically a chat moderator, so I am not sure what to do.

 

[Antvasima]

Just to clarify, most people in the staff were very positive towards you becoming a chat moderator, and seem to like you a lot, but if the job is too taxing for your mental health, you need to think about if it is right for you.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, take note that I have not checked up all of the links, so I do not know whether or not anybody actually broke our existing Chat Rules.

 

[Sera_EX]

That's what I'm saying. I'm telling Kruokov exactly what Hop told me. We cannot be overly sensitive. We moderate, not censor. There's some things I don't like to be said but I'm not gonna let that get to me. I've learned to ignore it, to turn the other cheek. Now sometimes they get a little too extreme or go way overboard and that's when I'll tell them to cease and desist, especially if others are telling them to stop. We can't let our emotions cloud our judgment. This is doing nothing more than turning chat into an unfun place to be.

 

[Thebluedash]

Sera has said what was on my mind, in much better wording than I probably would of done. I agree with her entirely.

 

[Ryukama]

I'm 100% with what Sera said. Common decency and civility is definitely to be expected, but there should be a point where users can just have fun. Everybody for the most part acts extremely formal on the main wiki (not saying we shouldn't) and would probably like a more lax place to talk to people with similar interests.

If users present in the chat bring up certain topics they would rather not talk about, other members should respect them and move on to something else. I've asked users to do that and others have done so as well. All requests have been met with general kindness from my experience. I also appreciate Sera being willing to compromise and accept things she's not too fond of as long as they don't cross a clear line.

I am more saying this as a broad statement. Not trying to criticize Colonel or undermine any of his concerns/experiences in the slightest.

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps Krukov would like to be a discussion moderator instead? The regular wiki is generally more well-behaved than the chat.

 

[Lina_Shields]

It seems that most of the users have said everything that I wanted to say regarding this topic.

@Krukov: Perhaps we can discuss your concerns here in the main chat? If being a chat mod is too stressful for your mental well-being, perhaps a discussion mod/content mod position would be a better fit for you instead?

EDIT: I would like to stress one main point. Too much censorship in that chat never does good for anyone. This is because most of the people that are usually in chat are around 18 to 21 years old, from observation.

Obviously, they aren't going to talk like 13-year-old kids (in which case you probably should not be on the chat, or on this wiki anyways), thus topics that could be suitable for mature audiences will occasionally be brought up here and there.

 

[Sera_EX]

Well, he's sleeping at the moment. We'll have to wait for him to come back online.

 

[VenomElite]

Age has nothing to do with this. Ultima Reality is 13 years old and is very well behaved in chat and never once complained that he was offended. I completely agree that we cannot censor but let's not flip the board and say young users can't use chat. They are the minumum age to use a Fandom Wikia and our wikia has agreed to keep this place child friendly. In chat, a PG 13 atmosphere is what should be ordained, not X-rated as some have went as far as to make it recently.

 

[Lina_Shields]

If Ultima Reality really is 13 years old, and is well behaved in chat, it would be okay for him stay in chat and hang around. However, Ultima Reality would be the exception in this case, not the norm.

if we make the rules on chat too strict just to accommodate the occasional 13-year old that drops by in chat, it will pretty much affect most of us from having the occasional chat. As long as no one is breaking the rules that are stated in the Chat Rules section, we should be allowed to post things at our own discretion anyways.

Remember that the chat section is called a "chat" for a reason. It's not an elementary school.

Again, by the time he/she is 13 years old, he/she should be able to recognize whether they want to stay on chat, or leave at their discretion if they are not comfortable that they are seeing on chat. We also have a Rule Violation report thread if the chat itself gets slighly out of hand.

No one on chat is stopping him/her from doing so.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we obviously do have Chat Rules. I am just saying that we cannot go even further, as that would push people away.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Ant: Most, if not all of us are okay with what is listed on the chat rules section. Adding more would literally turn this place into school instead.

Perhaps we should conclude this thread, as most of us are okay with leaving the chat rules as it is?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that we should probably wait for Colonel Krukov.

 

[Ryukama]

Agreed with Ant.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If you don't like sexual content / humor / etc, I won't judge you, but I can't say I fully agree with your stance either. For your sake, I will do my best effort to be polite and clean while you are with me, as I respect your thoughts and do not wish to bring you harm. I have no problems making any adjustments to my behavior to get better along with people.

However, I also do not agree with you entirely, and would like to share my words on the subject. If you do not wish a discussion, then I wouldn't recommend you keep reading this.

I too see things I disagree with, or would rather not anyone post or say on the chat, but I wouldn't ever create a thread wishing people would just cease to do this or that for my sake. People have the right to act and joke as they wish, as long as it isn't done out of spite or hate or with the intent of harming someone. This logic could apply to a variety of subjects, not just behavior on chat, but for the wikia in general. There are a lot of profiles and pages here for things I hate and would rather not see, but I wouldn't consider it professional to demand erasing them, or worse, using my Admin powers to delete pages on the fly.

Also, I noticed that.ver half of the examples you listed have to do with Warhammer 40,000, particularly the character of Slaanesh. I can understand why a lot of people wouldn't enjoy the series, but I find it strange that out of all the content to be bothered or uncomfortable at, one would gravitate towards sex daemon girls. The series is filled to the brim with death, extreme violence, amoral characters and unhearthly horrors it coined the word "Grimdark" to convey the over-the-top nature of it all.

Alot of people don't seem to mind characters shooting, slicing, punching, exploding each other to death, but can't stand sexual humor or nudity. And I can't understand that.

However, I am sorry if I have unintentionally offended you. It was never my intention to antagonize anyone, nor do I wish to continue being in opposition with you. When you are in chat, I will respect your limitations and issues.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I don't mind accepting anything, as long as I don't have to be in this state. In future I will avoid the main section of chat and only stick to talking via PM's.

I just want people to know that I still consider everyone here a good friend. I'm going to take things slowly and easy till things are well. I'm am more than welcome to listen/explain things in depth, as long as it's in private. I just hope that anything I have to say doesn't make people dislike me, even in the slightest.

 

[Sera_EX]

Obviously, our chat isn't some preschool. Again, we don't want to censor or add any more rules, just to clarify that.

@Krukov you can always come talk to me. If that's the only reason you want to use chat, we can PM as always.

 

[Antvasima]

We do not dislike you Krukov. We simply have a different opinion. You can also consider if you would rather be a discussion moderator instead.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I've had some time to think about what I want to do and I'm just going to get on with doing my job as a chat moderator. I don't think it's fair to accept being a discussion moderator, I'm not sure if I'm qualified and know what to do anyway right now.

You guys can say what you want in chat (obviously everyone is still bound by rules) but I think it is best to just suck it up like a man, as there's no point in getting upset with stuff I shouldn't be.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Thebluedash]

Well this is finished then.