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Abnormal Endurance Page?
- Thread starter Yobo_Blue
- Start date
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@Ant Only up to a point. Servants with the Battle Continuation skill for example can fight with muscles torn past the point that they should be able to move them, have their heart be pierced through with a spear, literally lose half their body, or be decapitated, and still fight just like they were at full energu until the actual moment they drop dead. No amount of "stamina" can allow this.
Or even apart from this skill. Kirei Kotomine was literally wringed out like a rag to the point that he likely does not even have a single intact bone in his body, yet can still fight on his feet up to a day later until he actually just dropped Dead. Again, he isn't immortal, but no amount of stamina can let you do this.
Or even apart from this skill. Kirei Kotomine was literally wringed out like a rag to the point that he likely does not even have a single intact bone in his body, yet can still fight on his feet up to a day later until he actually just dropped Dead. Again, he isn't immortal, but no amount of stamina can let you do this.
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bump
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Well, this seems like a borderline case, given that it overlaps with what we already describe in the stamina section and Immortality type 2. As such, it may not be worth all of the extra effort.
What do you think Wokistan?
What do you think Wokistan?
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Well this is very clearly different from Type 2 immortality, and as my examples prove, they often excede what endurance can cover
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I definitely agree with this.
In regards to Type 1, while many characters with Nonexistent Physiology, Incorporeality, etc. would automatically have it, it also applies to those with non-standard physiology such as robots and slimes, for example. Besides, it's not like we can get rid of Empathic Manipulation or Memory Manipulation just because it would automatically grant Mind Manipulation to their users.
As for Type 2, this is clearly shown with the example of Fate's Battle Continuation skill. The ability to continue fighting effectively, disregarding broken bones, shredded muscles and massive blood loss - to continue fighting even when it is physically impossible to move due to the nature of the sustained injuries, is a clear superpower.
Type 3 is difficult to explain, due to coming mostly from games with Endure mechanics. It could be argued that it could be fused with Type 2, since Fate's Battle Continuation is technically classified as a skill. Regardless, they work effectively the same way: being able to endure fatal wounds and fight effectively despite being at a metaphorical or literal "1 HP".
Definition-wise, I think Types 2 and 3 should be combined into just Type 2.
Type 2 can be the ability to fight effectively in spite of wounds that should make movement extremely difficult if not impossible (i.e. Battle Continuation), while a new Type 3 can be the ability to withstand blows that should by all means one-shot the user (e.g. surviving a blow that deals 999 damage with 1 HP, despite having only 2 HP before getting hit, i.e. Endure mechanics in RPGs).
In regards to Type 1, while many characters with Nonexistent Physiology, Incorporeality, etc. would automatically have it, it also applies to those with non-standard physiology such as robots and slimes, for example. Besides, it's not like we can get rid of Empathic Manipulation or Memory Manipulation just because it would automatically grant Mind Manipulation to their users.
As for Type 2, this is clearly shown with the example of Fate's Battle Continuation skill. The ability to continue fighting effectively, disregarding broken bones, shredded muscles and massive blood loss - to continue fighting even when it is physically impossible to move due to the nature of the sustained injuries, is a clear superpower.
Type 3 is difficult to explain, due to coming mostly from games with Endure mechanics. It could be argued that it could be fused with Type 2, since Fate's Battle Continuation is technically classified as a skill. Regardless, they work effectively the same way: being able to endure fatal wounds and fight effectively despite being at a metaphorical or literal "1 HP".
Definition-wise, I think Types 2 and 3 should be combined into just Type 2.
Type 2 can be the ability to fight effectively in spite of wounds that should make movement extremely difficult if not impossible (i.e. Battle Continuation), while a new Type 3 can be the ability to withstand blows that should by all means one-shot the user (e.g. surviving a blow that deals 999 damage with 1 HP, despite having only 2 HP before getting hit, i.e. Endure mechanics in RPGs).
Wokistan
Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
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I still don't think the power's needed either. I'm not arguing that it isn't notable, I'm arguing that it's already covered by other things we have on the profile format and a separate power would be redundant. I don't see how battle continuation is at all different from Immortality 2, given that the explanation for that power straight up says "Characters with this degree of immortality can survive injuries that would otherwise be lethal to a normal person, without needing to heal from it." The fact that a realistic view of stamina doesn't allow for something isn't really relevant either, because that's essentially saying that terms with solid deifnitions have no meaning in fantastical settings because of the presence of impossible things. Stamina is defined as "the bodily or mental capacity to sustain a prolonged stressful effort or activity", "the ability to sustain prolonged physical or mental effort", or other variations depending on the exact source. Heavy injury is definitely a stressor, so sustaining activities while under the duress of that stressor is still stamina by its very definition.
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Yobo requested that I should reopen this thread, as he did not get the chance to reply, but I definitely think that this seems like a neverending waste of time and energy that is not going to lead anywhere, due to that it would be severely redundant and a pointless addition of massive amounts of work for no gain.
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I agree with Wokistan here
This power is basically just type 2 immortality+the stamina section of profiles
Tbh there was no need to reopen this thread
This power is basically just type 2 immortality+the stamina section of profiles
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I'm a lot more inclined to agree with Iapitus, Skalt, and Solacis on this.
Not only is there the whole issue of Battle Continuation, but you have characters like Nanami Yasuri whose body keeps her alive against her will, far beyond being mere stamina (especially because her actual stamina is pathetic) but not quite to the point of type 2 immortality because it can still be overwhelmed to kill her.
Not only is there the whole issue of Battle Continuation, but you have characters like Nanami Yasuri whose body keeps her alive against her will, far beyond being mere stamina (especially because her actual stamina is pathetic) but not quite to the point of type 2 immortality because it can still be overwhelmed to kill her.
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- Thread starter
- #106
Yeah, the big issue I have with what Wokistan has said is that we A. Really overstate what Type 2 should cover. We shouldn't be giving Type 2 to someone like Lavos who can just survive with missing parts of his body, and it should probably be more reserved for those who exist regardless of how much damage they take like Riordan's Greek Gods. B. Abnormal Endurance is much more limited and based around what the person can do while damaged that is combat applicable, which isn't the same thing and C. Being redundant via the stamina page isn't really a big issue anyway since a lot of powers are redundant with things like intelligence and speed, and additionally, we don't consider things like Endure stamina anyway.
Ant, if you really have that much of a issue, I can message more staff so we can get this over quickly.
Ant, if you really have that much of a issue, I can message more staff so we can get this over quickly.
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To be honest, while this type of stuff should be covered in Stamina, I think the Stamina field in profiles itself is vague, as overtime battle endurance and enduring heavy damage are vastly different from one another.
Rarely, but still, there are some battles where the debaters compare the stamina of say, Character A, who can keep fighting despite losing an arm, to Character B, who fought for three consecutive days. Both of these things are unquantifiable in comparison.
So, I think this is a efficient method to get across the idea of combat resilience to users effectively.
Rarely, but still, there are some battles where the debaters compare the stamina of say, Character A, who can keep fighting despite losing an arm, to Character B, who fought for three consecutive days. Both of these things are unquantifiable in comparison.
So, I think this is a efficient method to get across the idea of combat resilience to users effectively.
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1: Physiological Endurance: Characters with this form of endurance can survive normally lethal blows through a form of abnormal physiology, such as lacking a physical form, being devoid of vital organs, or through some form of Inorganic Physiology.
Type 1 is basically the barebone definition that special physiologies like Nonexistent Physiology, Abstract Existence give adbnormal endurance. While the definition is true, the definition brings nothing new to the table and still required the physiologies definition from page like Non-Corporeal, Nonexistent Physiology, Abstract Existence, Inorganic Physiology, Intangibility to be properly be properly defined for the characters.
If Type 1 was accepted then for characters that have one of the special physiologies, they would also have Abnormal Endurance (Type 1) added to the pages which is super redundant and a pointless addition of massive amounts of work for no gain which would involve over 4000 pages.
Type 1 is basically the barebone definition that special physiologies like Nonexistent Physiology, Abstract Existence give adbnormal endurance. While the definition is true, the definition brings nothing new to the table and still required the physiologies definition from page like Non-Corporeal, Nonexistent Physiology, Abstract Existence, Inorganic Physiology, Intangibility to be properly be properly defined for the characters.
If Type 1 was accepted then for characters that have one of the special physiologies, they would also have Abnormal Endurance (Type 1) added to the pages which is super redundant and a pointless addition of massive amounts of work for no gain which would involve over 4000 pages.
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I agree with Eli on type 1
Types 2 and 3 both seem reasonable
Types 2 and 3 both seem reasonable
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2: Tolerant Endurance: Characters with this form of endurance can survive normally fatal blows through pain tolerance, willpower, or determination, and continue fighting.
I want to say. Type 2 could be okay but I want this guideline. I want characters with Regenerationn (Low-Mid and Up [Regenerationn from fatal blows start at Low-Mid]) like Hulk to disqualified because these characters can only survive because of regenera tion only and not though pain tolerance, willpower, or determination to continue fighting like definition said.
I want to say. Type 2 could be okay but I want this guideline. I want characters with Regenerationn (Low-Mid and Up [Regenerationn from fatal blows start at Low-Mid]) like Hulk to disqualified because these characters can only survive because of regenera tion only and not though pain tolerance, willpower, or determination to continue fighting like definition said.
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Unless the regen isn't combat applicable ,or is very slow. I can't think of any specific examples, it just seems like that would be an exception.
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Then, a note should be characters that only survive through Regenerationn only should not qualified for Type 2 because these characters can not survive because of pain tolerance, willpower, or determination to continue fightingCreaturemaster971 said:
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Right
Mr. Bambu
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I feel like this is already covered by existing powers but not really interested in getting into a heated debate over an arbitrary add on to the P&A category so
sure why not
sure why not
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It is a major issue if a suggested revision would bring with it potential updates to thousands of profiles for little or almost no gain whatsoever. We reserve that for massive revisions that are actually highly beneficial and necessary. As such, I strongly oppose this, and am not going to change my mind in this regard. Sorry.Yobo Blue said:
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I have seen things to the effect of "can keep fighting through severe injuries" as stamina feats but I guess having this page would make it easier to distinguish between that and full Immortality Type 2, so I'll support its addition.
