A Wild Last Boss Appeared Discussion Thread

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Literally rewrote this 2x because my mind changed 2 times.


Ouroboros are still level 1000

But there existed a type of monster that made those dragons look like small-fry in comparison. And one of those was right in front of me—an ouroboros.


【Ouroboros of Heaven】

【Level】: 1000

【Race】: Ouroboros

【Attribute】: Sun

【HP】: 10000000/10000000

【SP】: ∞

【STR (Strength)】: ?????

【DEX (Dexterity)】: ????

【VIT (Vitality)】: ?????

【INT (Intelligence)】: ????

【AGI (Agility)】: ?????

【MND (Mind)】: ????

【LUK (Luck)】: ????


Using the skill Observing Eye, I tried to check its stats, but honestly, I wished I hadn’t.

Its HP was higher than anything I’d ever seen before, and its SP was literally infinite.-Volume 3, Part 11

And a group of level 1000's can counter an Ouroboros attack

Aries had managed to evade all the incoming meteors without dropping his speed, but then, a shadow fell on a large area of Mizgarz. Everyone’s face paled. It was a meteor that measured several kilometers in diameter. All the other ones up until now had only been up to several tens of meters in diameter at the most, and even those held enough destructive
power in them to decimate scores of square kilometers. This time, though, the scale was through the roof. If something like that impacted Mizgarz, the planet itself might break.

D-Damn it all... In the midst of this tough situation, Aries caught on to something. The ouroboroses—no, the Goddess herself—never cared about any damage to the planet.

Up until now, Aries had held a faint hope that this wasn’t the case. It was a faint, shameful piece of hope that they might be concerned for the state of the planet and be unable to go all out. Except Aries now knew that they held no such emotions. That was why Lufas had evacuated as many living things as possible. It had been a forced move, but she was correct.

“SH-SHOOT IT DOOOOOOWWWNNNN!” Aquarius’s command was almost a cry, and it echoed throughout the area as any who could attack the falling rock did so.

Aries had his hands full with dodging, but Aquarius, who was on top of him, was free to attack. The three winged knights also took flight at the same time to slash at the incoming meteor, while Fenix, Hydras, and Leon all looked up.

“Tch! Hydras!”

“I know!”

Fenix and Hydras launched the most powerful streams of fire and water from their mouths they could in an attempt to intercept the meteor. Those torrents mixed in with the spell Aquarius had cast and Leon’s roar, impacting the giant meteor that was falling and breaking it to pieces, which made it seem like the very sky was crashing down on them. The broken meteor became countless smaller fragments and rained down, forcing Fenix, among others, to shoot down any coming at them. They weren’t able to intercept everything, but any amount they did manage to remove lessened Aries’s group’s burden.-Volume 8, Part 14

Basically like 7 people to match 1 attack from an Ouroboros, some caveats, I am assuming they are all level 1000, Fenix and Hydras are normally level 800, but I assume like the Stars as Ruphas captured monsters they also go up when Ruphas goes up. Aquarius is interesting because she is an item not a monster so idk if her level raises, hence why she doesn't have a level 1000 key currently. But anyway the 3 knights are level 1000, and then Leon so at least 4 level 1000's.

So in short all level 1000's should scale to the Ouroboros and Aigokeros.

While re-looking at Benet vs Fire Ouroboros, she couldn't put him down without her strongest attack, because of his regen, and obvious absurd HP (Ouroboros have ten million), so level 1500's still scale far above them, they are just tanky and regen fast.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Honestly I agree. It fits more in line with Leon as a level 1,000 not being able to turn planets to dust due to midgards limit. Which also implies level 1,000s are stronger than they are presented as well. Of course not as strong as we can see by the amount it took to stop the attack. I still think it's crazy that Aigokeros has a true max level of 1350...just to be limited by the law to stay at 1000. Ouroboros are also very tanky from a 4-C perspective

Only argument I could see against it is the attack not having the same power as a 99,999 damage one. As it's a meteor and not really a breath attack or something. Didn't go back and read to see yet.

That and where a level 2,700 would scale. Because if they get that crazy initially, then where does something so close to level 3,000 become.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

On another note, they really matched the voices of Ruphas and Dina well. They sound just as you would have expected

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Ouroboros dealing 99,999 damage is something to re-evaluate honestly, only time it's brought up is when the Earth Ouroboros attacked Leon, and it was said Leon can't die in one attack, because the most damage that can be done is 99,999, but it was basically a continuous attack. This doesn't mean the Ouroboros was dealing that type of damage in 1 attack.

Anyway only Brachium explicitly does 99,999 in one attack I think, will have to recheck all the Ouroboros fights to confirm if this is true.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Bracchium is one of the only ones that does 99,999 yeah outside of the Earth Ouroboros. Aries of course can do that with his flames due to level limit. Probably should be higher outside of Midgard too. Pretty sure the Earth Ouroboros also did 99,999 continuously which is why Leons HP drained so fast. Like one attack gets limited, but to compensate it continues. Other than that we just have characters with similar destructive capabilities. I'm looking back at it now, that meteor may not qualify to be star level since it's just that, a big meteor. Unless we're assuming it's the same level of everything else idk

Also honestly, "likely star level" is being pretty cautious of the rating. Like Orm destroyed stars, this was said twice. It was also said that Sanieve can destroy stars too(but it's marked as can destroy planets in profile). It's just kinda funny seeing "can destroy stars" and then that rating with the multiple feats of them erasing stars pretty flat out

 

[Enter_Bluey]

So I'm thinking about it, would a God not just have acaus 5? Alovenus was unbound by any and all laws. Then this got worse as a God...all concepts, laws and limits don't apply to her and don't exist. I feel like this matters cause she became inaccessible to anyone. Then you have the end point itself, which is infinite, and the end point of all endings + the place of all beginnings and she governs it.

This is included with the fact these laws of course include the law of causality, which was cause for Ruphas's odd attacks and such. Or am I crazy and there needs to be more relationship somewhere?

Edit: I think the issue is you need statements of being uninteractable specifically due to being unbound by causality, and then some other stuff. So I guess there's that. Forgot it's very specific on here

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yea you need statements of being uninteractable as a result of bw8ng acausal, so AWLBA wouldn't qualify.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Rest in peace acaus 5 Gods...

On another note, for Pollux I believe there can be some minor changes for her. In the LN she says she had the combat power of an adventurer. Ruphas also says that the strongest fighters of Earth don't even get passed level 5, which is for newbie adventurers. So I think we could maybe give an approximate for her? Something like 9-C or 9-B? At minimum it seems a normal adventurer is somewhat Superhuman. Trained soldiers are around level 50-60, so a normal adventurer is hovering somewhere around or below.

Then there is Pollux's ring. The thing is pretty nuts. Ruphas basically says it buffs the users speed by 4 million times. This can probably be marked in speed for her? Funny because Ruphas explains this fairly accurately, and it matches up to around the speed of a boosted level 1,000.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

CRT for stamina, range etc

Will get to the other stuff later like abstract existence Alovenus, Star level upgrades?

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Star level for level 1,000s? Oh and level 2700 Benet

Also came to mind, varies would probably apply to their durability as well right? Since they follow the whole HP logic.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Their ap varying is kind of durability negation, I don't see how it applies to durability though.

Level 1000 Aries doesn't varies between planet level and star level durability, either your durability is that high or it isnt.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

I was thinking more so a negative. Like in crossverse, it's basically like a dura neg. But we would also consider it that a Midgard inhabitant has hp values as well. So in the case of the person they're fighting, they themselves will also take sets amount of damage to their HP.

Like it's strong but has the same effect on each other. Which also causes the factoring in of HP healing which some have that really make damage pointless. But idk

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Eh cross verse AWLBA logic wouldn't apply to the other character, because they don't have the same logic, AWLBA characters ignore common sense and are all inheritors of Alovenus power, which is nonsensical.

So say someone who isn't from AWLBA who is like 9-B, would they be able to harm a level 1000 from AWLBA? The answer is no, because they aren't operating under the same nonsensical rules.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

So something like the awlba character will see those values due to operating under those rules, but another character won't, so they won't be hitting them the same? I guess so, cause I was thinking back to someone like Libra. Who hp wise can tank one star level attack from a person in awlba. But we also assume 1 attack from a crossverse character too (I think?). Then it's back to normal durability. But it's true that this is all based on the power of Alovenus...so another character can't really do that

Also it may just be the site but crt link keeps bringing to an error, so went and looked for it in search bar

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Pretty much.

The CRT link was actually to my sandbox, just updated it.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Then we have Leon who can tank a solid 10 star level attacks crossverse. It's really nuts ...

For the level 1,000s, I'm still unsure about the star level stuff. Though honestly if we look at each time an ouroboros appeared, there's been mention of star busting almost immediately after. So probably is alright

 

[Enter_Bluey]

So...thinking about the one feat involving the time altering ring. I think this may be resistance to time stop(I guess it would get mixed in with time manip resistance?). But the ring slows down the entire world to 0, including time.

While yes, it speeds up the user, and Ruphas explains that she/benet can move at mach 100,000 to easily circumvent such a thing..that shouldn't be enough to just casually move in stopped time. Like it's trying to describe their perception, saying they literally see the world as stopped time anyway. Thus time stop is just high speed movement. But it's not exactly the same. Unless we give them some odd perception ability. Plus it's not even say SoL. Only issue is it also speeds the users up, for them to move too..so it's odd

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Pretty sure the ring doesn't completely stop time, but slows it down by a factor of 10,000, and also boast the user by that same factor.

Even if Ruphas and co are slowed down by 10,000, they are still stupidly fast, so the ring is ineffective against them, we saw this with Dina doing the same thing against Scorpius, by an even bigger factor of like 100,000, Scorpius could still move, because Scorpius is originally like Mach 40,000, after a while she did become immobile, because the time slow sped up even more.

But yea Dina, Alovenus avatar has an even better ability and it doesn't immediately stop time, just slows it down very fast, eventually stops it, and then reverses time until the target no longer exists.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

The thing with that is it not only debuffs time by 10,000 but reduces it to 0. Which is pretty much stopped time, and that's why Ruphas calls it that too, like actual stopped time no? So it doesn't just buff the their speed, but buffs their time. The effects are a little different than the debuffs that were applied to scorpius I would think. Otherwise im not sure how else we'd treat it being actual 0. Its not like 1/100,000, or something like that.

Scorpius was also a gradual thing of slowing down instead. I think these values seem to be treated a little different. The "10,000" also doesn't seem to be an actual speed rating like "mach" but something like a game stat. Because Ruphas says to actually catch up to mach 100,000 even at 30 km/h, you'd need a 4 million times speed buff at that level. Definitely not 10,000, which instead looks like a stat for time of the world itself. Scorpius also seemed to be eventually slowed enough, but not set to 0.

I mean we can just say the time shenanigans won't work cause yed posterior as a part stops their time. Just that ring and the perception stuff always was kinda odd to me

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Quick question about that one Benet mftl+ reaction feat. I assume it's not useable for anything now? Cause Benet basically goes immeasurable during that fight. Was wondering for something like 2100 key, due to the arrow still being shot back and travelling that distance

Buuuut leaning towards not

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

It's not useable due to Benet being Immeasurable..

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Yeah should've been obvious. The 1% of curiosity spiked in me just in case.

It was that and I was thinking about maybe a higher rating for other keys with Shine blow/flash. Since speed of light is relative, so this move gets faster with levels and Ruphas' perception

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Forgot if I brought it up here, but next one could also involve Alovenus NEP types. Probably should have type 2. I mean...it says she'd remain even if all traces are erased. The history part was taken, but the whole even if her concept was erased thing was right after so.

Plus all concepts don't even exist for a God, they don't have them and need to create them. Don't wanna assume too much else on types there...but the verse does have info type 2 now. Which may include that. Whatever the thoughts on that are. Then they can affect the end point as well which also lacks everything. And of course, Ruphas can erase Alovenus straight up even given everything

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Another minor thing(I am kinda just dumping stuff that seems potential to add when I randomly remember at thus point)

Instinctive Reaction(or precog?) for Ruphas: She got a premonition of instant death, and opted to avoid the flames that came at her instead of challenging it. Which was correct, since of course was guaranteed death that bypasses resistances. This is unlike her too, since she's the person to simply punch away waves of water and stuff.

For the ouroboros: Aura, because if the group fighting them was not level 1,000s they wouldn't have been able to stand

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Something else that I found interesting..

Alovenus's avatar doesn't take damage. Not even 1, but no damage. Despite how the law in the world works...could this be an Invulnerability or something? Like the avatar not being bound by the law? Or just the fact a it's non-inhabatant causing the impact, so it doesn't do -1

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

1-A+ thread, will be interesting to see how it goes.

 

[Shadowslaya!]

1-A+ thread, will be interesting to see how it goes.

Hot damn!

 

[Shadowslaya!]

Was it true that Ruphas needed help/an amp to beat/reach Alvoneus?

 

[Enter_Bluey]

It was through an item left behind by Alovenus herself, that gave authority to the universe

 

[Senadina]

And then they absorbed the universe's exp to step onto the same stage as Alove (basically needed that much exp just to even stand in the realm of god).

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Sort of got preoccupied with Isekai Mahou, after I am done applying changes there, will get back to the 1-A+ thread.

Last I saw, it wasn't going anywhere though.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

It got two staff agrees I think, for 1A+. Then turned into other stuff

Some high 1-A+ came up towards the end...and whatever else. Don't think I'll mess with that lol. So I don't even know now. My high 1A suggestion probably won't get looked at further (given how crts like this go).

Other than that it was how high into 1A+ exactly

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Eh last I saw the very basis of 1-A+ was being questioned, so might not even result in any upgrades, but we will see.

Will bump and call some staff, probably in a couple weeks.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

This stuff makes me realize how awlba isn't the easiest to fit with this new system. They can be stronger, but hard to fit where, as certain rules make it odd to be so with certain tiers. Before this system...we could've gotten them a lot higher, just never attempted.

1-A+ at least would be rather solid here(I tried to explain it best I could) and I don't think the last few scans in the thread are too relevant. But yeah better to see what another staff thinks.

Will there be some more ability/physiology and key additions after this one?

 

[Enter_Bluey]

So I'll drop my opinion here on smurf stuff to be looked at:

I think smurf hax scale to where they reached the peak of infinity. They are Alovenus's rules, and after effectively extensions of her ability. They also recreated everything, which got destroyed.The script got overwritten with their power basically as well. So I don't think unique skills remained at 1A after that

(Also something very very small...Alovenus's death manip res says she was affected by the concept of death, thought it was a little funny)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Some thoughts here.

The script was basically stopped by Ruphas, and Alovenus is no longer controlling that, humans now write their own script/destiny, in other words there is no God controlling fate/plot anymore. So people who scale to being outside Alovenus script/destiny, shouldn't have their resistance upgraded to 1-A+. Taurus destroyed a piece of Alovenus power, shattering her script, but again this was before Alovenus fought Ruphas, and there is no script currently, so no upgrade for him.

Unique skills are interesting, they served as proof one is a proxy of Alovenus, and the rules of the world make them absolute. Alovenus and Ruphas returned all the timelines which were destroyed in their fight

Spoiler: Unique Skills

Alovenus had nothing like that. She was too strong, since she could crush entire universes by accident. That wasn’t exactly an excuse, but eliminating her also wouldn’t solve anything. In fact, her help would be absolutely necessary to fix and replace everything that had been damaged and lost in the fight. Therefore, she had to take responsibility for all the unhappiness she’d spread and save the victims.
Also, if Alovenus were to be erased, then the devilfolk—who were her spell—would also disappear. If that happened, Lufas wouldn’t be able to face Orm.
“Oh, and transfer your authority as the Goddess of Mizgarz to Dina. You should watch and learn as you leave the management of Mizgarz to her for a while.”
After smoothly dumping such an enormous task on someone who wasn’t there and had no way to accept or object, Lufas waved her arm and returned all the dimensions, timelines, and everything else that had been destroyed in the fight. She wasn’t quite sure whether simply “returning” lost timelines would work, but in the end, it did. It seemed that the saying “anything goes” truly applied.
“You help too.”

Lufas grabbed Alovenus, who was still in a daze, by the nape of her neck and dragged her along.

“Huh? Wai—”

And that concluded the two-hundred-year-long game between the Goddess and her Rebel. It ended in checkmate after all the Goddess’s pieces had been wiped off the board or stolen. Though the Goddess had flipped over the board, the floor had been flipped over on the Goddess, and in the end, she had been punished. The world had been freed from her script. From here on out, any scripts would be written by the people themselves.-Volume 9, Part 8

Honestly the entire argument for the unique skill upgrade is to say because the are dependent on the laws created by a 1-A+ being, they must also be 1-A+, but this is really the same as argument that because a character's power comes from a 1-A+ being, their powers must be 1-A+, which this wiki never accepts without evidence, higher power sources are a thing.

The only reasons we accept Midgard laws being 1-A is because the universe is literally Alovenus magic spell, and it's what Ruphas used to ascend to 1-A, plus the other stuff like how when Alovenus possess someone, it's equivalent to like a hair of Alovenus, and Taurus can destroy that possession, he scales.

But anyway in returning the world to how it was, is there any proof that it is even better than before? The upgrade seems to hinge around the idea that because Ruphas and Alovenus are way stronger after their fight, anything they create must necessarily have to be, which in a sense can work because we know Alovenus sucks at restraining her power, with anything she does being large scale, and nothing intricate, but Ruphas helped her, so kinda iffy for me.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

I guess this depends on what "the rules" are now. Because even if the rules of the universe are overwritten for the people to write their own scripts, unique skills still function off being "'level 6". Something like the Goddess granting direct authority over other skills. They maintain this property which makes me think it's directly tied to herself in some way. Last I remember certain properties of the universe are still a thing too. They are just no longer guided by the Goddess in their actions. No more heroes are needed...but the laws behind their levels and limits still exist(?).

I think the ending part of their fight may help(or even hurt) towards it since afterward, Ruphas returned the mana she had gained to the universe, and returned to her former level. So what does that even mean for all the power she had? The strength of everything, the laws, etc? That power is no longer on a 1A level I'd think? I feel like saying the opposite would be assuming they brought everything back to said level, which goes against how troublesome their power is.

Spoiler: Repairing everything

Speaking of that though, I'd say Ruphas helping Alovenus recreate the worlds wouldn't make it too problematic. After all she just got that power herself, and she was basically above Alovenus at that point. What is the reason Alovenus struggles so much in the first place? It's because her power makes it so. The stuff is so grand that even becoming a God with it lead to those complications. Ruphas now has the same thing...except she is even more muscle brained than Alovenus, and was a novice relying on "'everything goes". Which is obviously the implied logic at that level of power for the both of them. Funny as well, because Ruphas notes if she hadn't lost to the heroes, she could've become a second Alovenus. Too powerful, and too lonely with similar issues.

An example of a unique skill being used afterward would be with Sanive. He applied a new law with his unique skill. It was basically like being affected by a new law created by the Goddess herself. Now they could just mean the potency they were previously. But this was some time after the fight. The laws and such were overwritten, so would it be like the current Goddess applying a new law, maybe?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Forgot about that Sanieve scan, yea it says being hit by his skill is the same as being hit by a new law created by Alovenus.

Alovenus is now 1-A+, so yea I agree with unique skills scaling to 1-A+.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Looks like unique skills will be formiddable...this change to smurf abilities on site solidifies some stuff in series too.

What would be left for additions? Off the top of my head, AE alovenus, tier 4 level 1,000s, and benets 2700 key. I think Invulnerability could be said for the EoS avatar

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

What would be left for additions? Off the top of my head, AE alovenus, tier 4 level 1,000s, and benets 2700 key. I think Invulnerability could be said for the EoS avatar

Sounds about right, only thing that was left, was just a combo of left over stuff. Can add upgrading unique skills to 1-A+ to the list.

As for when I will make this thread? Probably after I finish apply all the Isekai at Peace revisions, and after I get my finals out the way next week. So give or take a couple weeks.