A Problem with NNT's High 6-B calc

[VersusJunkie54]

I am also against this feat scaling to as many characters as it presently does

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Power Levels are BS

40,000 Galan, can't do jack against 50,000 Escanor

and suddenly 48,000 King and Diane are gonna hurt 200,000+ Mael

GTFO

they shouldn't scale to it

 

[Malikobama1]

@OP

If you check the actual blog post your horizon problem is completely addressed. We see out into the horizon from the cloud itself, which formed at the top of a tornado.

@Scaling concerns

All of this was addressed in the last thread already. Like, multiple times.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Agreed. If the Ocean calc remains valid it should only scale to Mael, Escanor, Meliodas, Zeldris, and any others that could also qualify.

Derieri's Combo Star could scale to the Ocean tho.

I'm sure that the author is aware of the power difference. So I have confidence that Mael will utterly destroy them.

 

[Schnee_One]

So what wiil this get downgraded too?

 

[Malikobama1]

Nothing, Causality just left out the actual key scans of the feat. For what reasons, I don't know.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

@OP
If you check the actual blog post your horizon problem is completely addressed. We see out into the horizon from the cloud itself, which formed at the top of a tornado.

@Scaling concerns

All of this was addressed in the last thread already. Like, multiple times.

I didn't see a horizion. The ocean seemed to just drop off after a certain point.

 

[Malikobama1]

That's what a horizon is, the limit of our view.

 

[The_Causality]

@OP
If you check the actual blog post your horizon problem is completely addressed. We see out into the horizon from the cloud itself, which formed at the top of a tornado.

Well, I checked several times (seriously lol) but I do not see any horizon

 

[VersusJunkie54]

That's what a horizon is, the limit of our view.

You mean this? The Scans don't look anything like this

 

[Malikobama1]

Like I said above, that's what a horizon is. Our view of the ocean ends because that's the horizon. If you still have problems with that issue the person to take it up with would be Raven.

@Versus

That's not an argument. Scan doesn't look like that because we're seeing from a completely different viewpoint, looking down and out from the sky.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

What I don't get, is how is it not seen as an Outlier, it tier jumped a lot of people, and there was no other feat similar, plus we don't actually know if Sariel created it on his own, once again no prob with Mel, Zeldris, Escanor, Mael, Archangels, and Deities getting this, but the Rest... EHHHH

Also why was the High-End Accepted, shouldn't in controversial feats like these, we should Low-End, just to be safe

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Lets compare and contrast here.


This is our standard for a horizon, especially in the context of an ocean.
This is the first sca It stops abruptly, and not like an actual horizion would. Plus, a white border that seems to be a stopping point for the ocean.

Here is the next one The same issue, there is no horizion. Just a big white border, and we can't reliably assume the ocean extends beyond that.

 

[Schnee_One]

Wasn't there a 6C feat as well?

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Well @Malik, could it at least be elaborated upon again why the other characters do scale to the feat itself? That or linking the thread should be sufficient.

 

[Malikobama1]

@Versus

That white border is the sky. That's the horizon, where we can no longer see the ocean.

@Gargoyle

I remember Raven calced a Low 6-B feat as well

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Even if the horizon where legit. How do we know Tarmiel is the one who originally made the ocean to begin with? It seemed more likely that they Teleported Mael into it rather than just created it.

Also, Manipulating something /=/ Creating something if we're concerned with energy

 

[VersusJunkie54]

How Galand even partially scaled to Tarmiel is beyond me. Especially when he's treated as a fodder in contrast to the other Tier 6 characters

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@VersusJunkies

That's what I'm saying tho, it seems teleportation, and Outlierish, to just scale everyone to

 

[Malikobama1]

@Versus

Tarmiel and Sariel state literally that the dimension was "created by our Graces."

As for Galand, his CO form tanked Tarmiel's big Ark sphere with no damage, lifted it up, and slammed it back down on Sariel. Base form was able to tank a smaller Ark blast from Tarmiel's head and was able to cut through Tarmiel.

@Galaxian

Here's the scaling information (copy pasted):

- Archangels directly state they're only about twice as powerful as Commandments. They don't mention "power levels" or "combat classes", only power, which matches the plot point below.

- Ludoshel states he needs to intervene when Tarmiel and Sariel are each fighting two Commandments.

- Sariel and Tarmiel HAD their Graces back then, and Sariel was using his offensively.

- The entire plot of the war hinges on the Commandments and Archangels being comparable. With Mael out of the war, the Goddesses judged themselves unable to win and resorted to the Seal.

- The Commandments were easily able to injure Sariel and Tarmiel and tank many of their attacks, despite Ark being effective against Demons.

- In Chapters 120-121, Meliodas literally could not scratch Galand in his Base form w/Lostvayne, in his Demon form w/Lostvayne, or in his Wrath form w/Lostvayne. The first time he makes Galand bleed is after he gets his power back.

- Matrona did not even scratch Galand either. Nor did she scratch Monspeet, despite Monspeet's heavily drained state.

- Derieri in the latest chapter, along with King, wasn't taking any noticeable damage from berserk Truth/Reticence Estarossa, once again pounding the point home that there's not a huge difference in AP between Commandment-levels and AA-levels.

- Again in Chapter 275, King and Gowther can actually take some attacks from Three Commandment + Goddess Powers Mael without getting insta-wrecked. At the end they are portrayed alongside Tarmiel and Sariel as comparable fighters against Mael.

- Galand barely cutting Escanor makes sense, because mid-morning Escanor also only got slightly injured from double his own attack power. His durability is simply much greater than his shown attack. At best you could argue that Escanor's durability feat against Galand is the outlier compared to all the evidence above.

In order to claim the Ten Commandments shouldn't scale to a large portion of the Archangels, all of the above has to be completely ignored.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Yeah, alright I see your point, but why is the Ocean scaled to direct AP, they teleported Estarossa into it, their graces didn't create the Ocean, it created the Dimension susposedly by Hax, and it's implied you can only escape the Dimension, not destroy it, meaning it should only scale to the Deities

 

[The_Causality]

Hmmm

Badly i don't agree, It's not the horizon, the perspective is too weird for assume this is an actual horizon

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I guess I can't really argue with much of that, at least not atm.

But I still stand by my stance on the horizon.

 

[Malikobama1]

@Demon Again, the topic of Ocean's AP was already discussed to death back when the original thread happened months ago. It was agreed that because Ocean is not just a hax power and that Tarmiel also uses it for direct attacks, it does not make sense for a casual application of it to be astronomically weaker than his attacks. The ocean was created by Tarmiel's grace and the sky was created by Sariel's grace, they directly state that.

@Causality/Versus You're arguing based on the classic view of the horizon we usually see, and as I said before you're not focusing on what is there on the page. The plain white area is the sky. Our view of the ocean stops in the distance, and all we see is sky. That's the horizon, by definition. Just because Nakaba didn't draw it in the "traditional" way does not make it something else.

 

[Peter1129]

I think the Ten Commandments should be scaled to the Low 6-B Danafor vaporization calc with a possibly that scales them to the High 6-B Archangels due to how power lvls work in NNT. I have seen some other series on the site that has their tiering like this. A tier they should logically scale to and a tier that they potentially scales to due to in story reasoning.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Hold up.....

If Sariel was controlling the atmosphere portion, would that yield any meaningful or supporting results?

But that would only be with the current horizion distance, witch I currently disagree with.

And Malik. I wasn't even into NNT when that revision happened. So forgive me if I don't know how that all went down

 

[Malikobama1]

@Peter

That would mean the Commandments never directly interacted with the Archangels, but they did. King and Gowther even withstood (albeit poorly) attacks from someone stronger than Tarmiel/Sariel, and they're weaker Commandment tiers.

 

[ZERO7772]

Oh....

Lets see how this one turn.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I made a Thread about the feat being an Outlier or Hax, sorry if this has been talked about before a lot: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2003631

 

[The_Causality]

This thread into a direction that i didn't want...

Anyway good night

 

[ByAsura]

Yeah, alright I see your point, but why is the Ocean scaled to direct AP, they teleported Estarossa into it, their graces didn't create the Ocean, it created the Dimension susposedly by Hax, and it's implied you can only escape the Dimension, not destroy it, meaning it should only scale to the Deities

Actually, it did use their graces to make it. [1] They themselves literally say so, and when Estarossa falls through the sky and water, they have the captions Ocea [2] and Tornado [3].

 

[Kaltias]

I don't think that horizon calculator is usable in this case.

First, because i'm not sure if that's supposed to be the actual horizon.

Second because judging from the perspective, whoever is watching Isn't watching "as far as they can see" (when you use horizon calculator), they are looking towards the lightning bolts

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Oh a calc member

@Kaltias

How would you revise the calc then, and how drastic a downgrade would it be, if it would be a downgrade at all

 

[Kaltias]

I dunno exactly how i'd calc it tbh. I was mostly pointing out the error that I saw

 

[The_Causality]

They are actually 2 calc:

• Large Island level+
• Country Level

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

So which of the 3 calcs is right, this is actually really important

 

[Antvasima]

If there are several calculation blogs for the same feat, you should start a thread in the calc group forum, and invite the members of the calc group to take part, so they can decide which one to use.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

All right I'll do the Thread

 

[Schnee_One]

Oh god no

PLZ! DON'T KILL 6A+ Mael

 

[Antvasima]

@Aubin

Thanks.