A lazy man and his gigantic text (Guardian Downgrade and Additions)

[Archaron]

Aside from being a laser, it goes in terms of physics to be one since it is a fusion rifle, it should work as a laser should be, as well as give evidence of high temperature (from fusion).

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

• The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or... (Think it's stated to in description of ability.)
• The beam reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror (Doesn't reflect off of anything ingame,as it's just a beam that pretty much deletes you.)
• The beam is called lightspeed by credible scientific sources (Never referred to as light speed only laser.)
• It is stated to be made of photons or light itself, again by a credible scientific source (I don't know about this.)
• It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera (It's a laser so I suppose it's a realistic source.)

So that's pretty much 2/5.

 

[Wokistan]

• There's never any water deep enough for that

• It reflects off of walls and the ground, it just destroys player characters

• Lasers are like that by default unless contradicted

• A laser fits the bill for this

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Refraction (or bending of light) is certainly a good point, though that coupled with others have been proven wanting in the past. The main question is, does this shoot anything like normal bullets, for example, or just these lasers?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Just a laser after a charge up.

 

[Archaron]

Only lasers.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

It bounces off of thing too I think.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Then I believe yes, it should be enough. Might wanna get a second opinion, though.

Here are the standards btw, Wok

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Ok then Sleeper is accepted as real light.

@Bambu

How would one go by scaling it too characters that have never dodged it in something canon like a cutscene,but pure gameplay via PVP that varies incredibly in how it is "dodged"?

 

[Wokistan]

Shadestep has I-frames, Blinking to dodge Sleeper shots isn't too hard if you can react fast enough, and the rating's for reactions and combat speed more than anything else. As crucible matches being a thing where Guardians do kill each other and just revive is backed up lorewise, this shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Blink is just teleportation an incredibly short range one,the thing is all of this depends on who the controller is in the hands of,I-Frames are immunity frames which means immunity i'm not sure how that is handled here as games are tricky.

 

[Wokistan]

I mean you still have to react to teleport.

thanks caps lock

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Um.

I'm not sure you actually could scale it that way, it'd be considered game mechanics, Sigurd.

I mean you could say "FTL via Shadestep and Blinking", but they aren't moving that fast. Maybe reactions, too.

 

[Wokistan]

Yeah their movement isn't that speed, its a combat speed type deal. I-frames are considered symbolic of dodging.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

That is what I think too Mr.Bambu as it's a game mechanic completely reliant on whoever the controller is in the hands of,not something hard-proof like a cutscene or even a statement.

 

[Wokistan]

Dark souls doesn't ever have the character "canonically" dodge anything due to no real cutscene fighting, and you don't even need to do finish the game (Greatshields or just making the game way harder than normal). We still use their dodging stuff for combat speed.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Wok But there's nothing contradicting you dodging the light/lightning in-game. Such as a cutscene. Where your character can't dodge it.

Cutscenes > Gameplay

But yeah. Should scale to reactions and combat speed once we get rid of that horrendous speed they have now.

 

[Wokistan]

Immeasurable'd be a thing in places that warrant such a thing, but not as a general rating. I don't really know how much Guardains should scale to Ascendant Oryx, as you can't really affect him even after he's crippled.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I agree. Immeasurable is very situational. Do we have a backup for movement speed?

 

[Wokistan]

Not off the top of my head, but some characters don't even have a movement speed. 40k assassins come to mind.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

So it's okay to scale them reacting to the beam via gameplay mechanics that varies player to player?

I can show you a clip of it in PVP if you'd like.


Sleeper Simulant vs Arcstrider - Crucible - Destiny 2 PvP


Destiny 2 Testing the Sleeper Simulant in PvP.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Guardians aren't really fast movement wise,you can maybe scale them to their sparrows or slightly below it.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

We could probably get relatively solid feats for movement. Nothing huge, I think, but we could get something.

 

[Archaron]

Oh god... your guys discussion is going forward, but will this revision be stagnant?

Just giving bump on that.

 

[Wokistan]

I mean speed stuff seems to have been sorted out, and I answered you on the Thorn/Red death stuff. I'm making the Exotic page so their page isn't insanely cluttered lol.

 

[Archaron]

Okay then.

But what about the AP?

 

[Wokistan]

2-A is a no, Low 2-C's probably to be worked out with the Oryx thread, though Osiris probably gets it either way. I'll post Osiris's file after Oryx stuff is done though.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

> 2-A is a no

Thank ****. Low 2-C I'm shifty about but if it is an "At least X, likely/possibly/whatever Y", then I can approve.

 

[Archaron]

it's just the 2-A that I'm trying to remove from the profile. For now this revision clarifies the guardian (Low 2-C) but the larger and explored details let's do it in the oryx thread.

I want to remove that 2-A quickly.

 

[Archaron]

> 2-A is a no
Thank ****. Low 2-C I'm shifty about but if it is an "At least X, likely/possibly/whatever Y", then I can approve.

AP: Varies, at least 4-B, at most Low 2-C

 

[Wokistan]

At least 5-C, likely 4-B, possibly low 2-C for now, though we may add a D1 and D2 key at some point.

 

[Archaron]

It makes no sense to put as "likely 4-B", the guardian fought on an equal basis with the material form of the oryx, and the same thing happened in his throne world, explain to me why he wants both the guardian as "5-C" wok.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

D2 Guardian has solid showings of 5-C from the base game alone. Hence his mention of a D1 and D2 Guardian.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

What is the 5-C feat for D2 Guardians?

 

[Archaron]

And again I say, separating keys by games is like seperating TV series by season, I understand that the contents of destiny 1 to 2 is gigantic, but that alone is no reason to separate as keys.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

What is the 5-C feat for D2 Guardians?

There's a couple. For one, one of the Taken rituals was stated to be destroying the moon it was taking place on. For another, the one Vex (?) boss on Strikes has statements of "he's gunna transform the moon into a mechanical thing", though that's over time and more of a supporting feat than anything.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Why does that scale to the guardian exactly?

The Vex take many many decades likely to terraform a planet with their wild ass technology.

The Taken Ritual is their more context to this?,as I don't understand why the Guardian would scale to a ritual completely unrelated to him.

 

[Wokistan]

Also Oryx's sister blew up a moon billions of years ago and Oryx found it hilarious, the AOE on the dreadnaught gun powered by Oryx making his boundary bigger was either this size or that of a planet, and Hiraks threw an entire asteroid into the ascendant plane.

 

[Archaron]

D2 Guardian has solid showings of 5-C from the base game alone. Hence his mention of a D1 and D2 Guardian.

If separates by keys, I'll even agree with that, but... On D1, Material Crota and Oryx it's scalable to the guardian and stands as "at least 4-B".

 

[Archaron]

Bump.