A few simple and easy Devil May Cry additions[Abilities]

[Ang4I00]

Pretty much simple addition of some abilities to some Devil May Cry characters:

Dante:
Invulnerability via Majin Devil Trigger (In near-death experiences Dante can activate his full demonic abilities, allowing him to become imprevious to all attacks, which is consistent with gameplay)

Sparda Descendants:
Invulnerability Negation (Are capable of breaking Fallens wings which are stated to be imprevious to all attacks and unbound by material constraints of Human World)

Arkham, Dante, Trish and other wielders of Devil Sword Sparda, also Devil Sword Dante:
Space-Time Manipulation (Devil Sword Sparda is capable of cutting through time and space)

Qliphoth, Urizen and Vergil:
Subjective Reality (Qliphoth Fruit can create illusionary space from ones memory, this space is physical and can physically crumble)

Malphas:
Subjective Reality (Capable of creating entities from the memories of subject of her spell)

Dante and Sparda:
Time Stop via Sealing (When Sparda sealed the Demon World, time stopped in it)

All demons:
Techonology Manipulation and Fusionism (Are capable of fusing with technology)

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Pretty much simple addition of some abilities to some Devil May Cry characters:

Dante:
Invulnerability via Majin Devil Trigger (In near-death experiences Dante can activate his full demonic abilities, allowing him to become imprevious to all attacks, which is consistent with gameplay)

Sparda Descendants:
Invulnerability Negation (Are capable of breaking Fallens wings which are stated to be imprevious to all attacks and unbound by material constraints of Human World)

Disagree. Invulnerability needs a mechanic behind it, otherwise it's just abnormally high durability.

Qliphoth, Urizen and Vergil:
Subjective Reality (Qliphoth Fruit can create illusionary space from ones memory, this space is physical and can physically crumble)

Malphas:
Subjective Reality (Capable of creating entities from the memories of subject of her spell)

This seems more like illusion creation.

Arkham, Dante, Trish and other wielders of Devil Sword Sparda:
Space-Time Manipulation (Devil Sword Sparda is capable of cutting through time and space)

This is fine.

 

[Robo432343]

im fine with giving the invulnerability a possible rating

 

[Ang4I00]

Disagree. Invulnerability needs a mechanic behind it, otherwise it's just abnormally high durability.

I mean, Fallen one is not just abnormally high durability, it even says its unbound by material constrains of Human World, which is clearly not because of just high durability.
Why doesn't Majin DT count as a mechanic? It's meant to be a kind of life saver for a limited time, where you are invulnurable, second chance kinda thing.

This seems more like illusion creation.

The space appears to be physical and solid in game, it even physically crumbles, so idk if its just illusion.
Malphas thing is fine as Illusion Creation.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I mean, Fallen one is not just abnormally high durability, it even says its unbound by material constrains of Human World, which is clearly not because of just high durability.
Why doesn't Majin DT count as a mechanic? It's meant to be a kind of life saver for a limited time, where you are invulnurable, second chance kinda thing.

Being unbound by the material world is likely just incorporeality, which would also explain why no weapons can harm it. Majin DT being mechanically intended as a "life saver" doesn't prove it's invulnerability; Lots of games have mechanics like that. If you need an example, stars from Mario, which do the same thing, are listed as statistics amplification on here.

The space appears to be physical and solid in game, it even physically crumbles, so idk if its just illusion.

It's bit weird but idc either way.

 

[Ang4I00]

Being unbound by the material world is likely just incorporeality, which would also explain why no weapons can harm it.

It doesn't really sound like Incorporeality, the wings themselves don't behave like they're incorporeal at all and I don't think that body being solid and physical while wings are incorporeal is valid interpretation.

Majin DT being mechanically intended as a "life saver" doesn't prove it's invulnerability; Lots of games have mechanics like that. If you need an example, stars from Mario, which do the same thing, are listed as statistics amplification on here.

That's honestly weird standart, but sure, do you agree if I put it as Enhanced Statistic Amplification instead?

 

[Robo432343]

Disagree. Invulnerability needs a mechanic behind it, otherwise it's just abnormally high durability.

wait why would dante have high durability if he's in a near death situation tho? invulnerability fits better than dura here

 

[Ang4I00]

Also Base Dante already has abnormal durability for demons, Majin DT is something different entirely

 

[Thehunter077]

Is space time manipulation are spatial by any means?

 

[Ang4I00]

Is space time manipulation are spatial by any means?

I didn't understand the question

 

[chosen]

Neutral on invulnerability related stuff
Agreed on rest

 

[Netoriman]

Being unbound by the material world is likely just incorporeality, which would also explain why no weapons can harm it. Majin DT being mechanically intended as a "life saver" doesn't prove it's invulnerability; Lots of games have mechanics like that. If you need an example, stars from Mario, which do the same thing, are listed as statistics amplification on here.

It's bit weird but idc either way.

Do the stars have a statement like the DMC one?

 

[chosen]

wait why would dante have high durability if he's in a near death situation tho? invulnerability fits better than dura here

Also not saying it's higher dura but that's not the best argument cux it's also a transformation portrayed beyond devil trigger (iirc)

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I agree

 

[Random-Helper323]

Dante:
Invulnerability via Majin Devil Trigger (In near-death experiences Dante can activate his full demonic abilities, allowing him to become imprevious to all attacks, which is consistent with gameplay)

You probably should have listed this after the negation since the Fallen have a stronger case for invulnerability than Majin form. Still, the statement of being immune to all attacks could suggest invulnerability.

Sparda Descendants:
Invulnerability Negation (Are capable of breaking Fallens wings which are stated to be imprevious to all attacks and unbound by material constraints of Human World)

This might be okay. It depends on Wiki standards.

Arkham, Dante, Trish and other wielders of Devil Sword Sparda:
Space-Time Manipulation (Devil Sword Sparda is capable of cutting through time and space)

This should also apply to the Devil Sword Dante, since it is literally a fusion of Rebellion and Sparda combined with a few other things I suspect.

Qliphoth, Urizen and Vergil:
Subjective Reality (Qliphoth Fruit can create illusionary space from ones memory, this space is physical and can physically crumble)

Malphas:
Subjective Reality (Capable of creating entities from the memories of subject of her spell)

Isn't this reality warping and creation?

 

[Ang4I00]

Isn't this reality warping and creation?

Creating something from ones mind and memories is subjective reality per subjective reality page

This should also apply to the Devil Sword Dante, since it is literally a fusion of Rebellion and Sparda combined with a few other things I suspect.

Yeah, I forgot to mention it, imma edit it

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Pretty much simple addition of some abilities to some Devil May Cry characters:

Dante:
Invulnerability via Majin Devil Trigger (In near-death experiences Dante can activate his full demonic abilities, allowing him to become imprevious to all attacks, which is consistent with gameplay)

I agree with some others above, without further details, this is just his Durability, lore wise Base DMC2 Dante is already massively above everything that moves on that game, MDT being a step further is to be expected. Maybe we can get more statements from more sources about the form ?

Sparda Descendants:
Invulnerability Negation (Are capable of breaking Fallens wings which are stated to be imprevious to all attacks and unbound by material constraints of Human World)

Yeah, but from the Human World, Dante's powers are beyond that and shouldn't be negating this Invulnerability by some sort of negation, but by its on nature

Arkham, Dante, Trish and other wielders of Devil Sword Sparda, also Devil Sword Dante:
Space-Time Manipulation (Devil Sword Sparda is capable of cutting through time and space)

This is fine

Qliphoth, Urizen and Vergil:
Subjective Reality (Qliphoth Fruit can create illusionary space from ones memory, this space is physical and can physically crumble)

Malphas:
Subjective Reality (Capable of creating entities from the memories of subject of her spell)

This is indeed Illusion Creation

 

[Thehunter077]

I didn't understand the question

I mean that is Spatial hax right?

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

The fallen of a certain type have invulnerability due to specifics about the material of the human world. Similar to Majin Devil Trigger, because it has the specificity that no type of attack can cause damage to it, it is clearly not a matter of durability.

By the way, will Sin Devil Trigger scale above Majin Devil Trigger in this regard, which is Dante's most powerful form? And also similar in mechanics.

 

[Tanin_iver]

I agree with some others above, without further details, this is just his Durability, lore wise Base DMC2 Dante is already massively above everything that moves on that game, MDT being a step further is to be expected.

Except, even base Dante isn't described to be invulnerable and isn't even showcased as such even if massively above everybody, and neither is his normal DT. Only MDT functions like that and is described to be impervious to attacks and isn't just specified to be because of high durability.

Yeah, but from the Human World, Dante's powers are beyond that and shouldn't be negating this Invulnerability by some sort of negation, but by its on nature

Its talking about material constraints of Human World, so I am really not sure if its defining its nature to be immaterial or something else entirely.

This is indeed Illusion Creation

Illusion Creation is more limited to mental or perception based. While those of the Qliphoth are more tangible and has affected the physical reality. Even for Malphas we consider her powers to be pocket reality in the wiki, instead of just illusions.

 

[Netoriman]

Isn't this reality warping and creation?

Creation is creating something from nothing according to the wiki page, Malphus creates those entities from memories.
The Subjective Reality page has a creation/summoning segment that goes over the differences.

 

[Silvervigilant]

Makes sense to me

 

[Lightning_XXI]

By the way, will Sin Devil Trigger scale above Majin Devil Trigger in this regard, which is Dante's most powerful form? And also similar in mechanics.

If accepted, I guess it would, but only for Dante, as Physiology is separated for the twins at that point in time thanks to different sources of power

Except, even base Dante isn't described to be invulnerable and isn't even showcased as such even if massively above everybody, and neither is his normal DT. Only MDT functions like that and is described to be impervious to attacks and isn't just specified to be because of high durability.

Why would that make this any different ? It's rather common for games to give you stats/abilities/immunities only up to a certain level or transformation. Also, the description may not directly point to high Durability but it also never directly points to Invulnerability, it just mentions to be immune to everything the game has to offer, that's why I said we should dig deeper for more statements, to see if this is ever brought up again and decide which way its implying, hax or stat

Its talking about material constraints of Human World, so I am really not sure if its defining its nature to be immaterial or something else entirely.

From the looks of it, it seems to be more related to not being limited by the Human World's "realistic" limits.

Although these demons do seem to have some sort of Invulnerability, it is limited by either "HW limits" or maybe "Any physical attack", Dante, by definition, will be able to kill this demon because he is far beyond HW constraints (If the statement is about that) and can easily, casually and passively attack in a non physical way (Soul Hax, for example). In any interpretation, he denies the Fallen's Invulnerability with his own abilities, and not by a specific Invulnerability Negation hax

Illusion Creation is more limited to mental or perception based

I went over the Subjective Reality page and yes, its description does fit with these feats (The "Creation/Summoning" part). So I guess it works

 

[Tanin_iver]

If accepted, I guess it would, but only for Dante, as Physiology is separated for the twins at that point in time thanks to different sources of power

I can agree with this sentiment.

Also, the description may not directly point to high Durability but it also never directly points to Invulnerability, it just mentions to be immune to everything the game has to offer, that's why I said we should dig deeper for more statements, to see if this is ever brought up again and decide which way its implying, hax or stat

If it doesn't point to high durability then it isn't. Immunity to every attack in game and described to be as such should pretty much point to invulnerability. But I guess more evidence is better. A bit unrelated and not the best evidence but I was definitely thinking that its invulnerability should be similar/akin to dreadnought form.

From the looks of it, it seems to be more related to not being limited by the Human World's "realistic" limits.

It seems to be implying about physical or material constraints in MTLs I just checked. So I am really not sure about that. Someone with knowledge of Japanese can explain the context better perhaps.

Although these demons do seem to have some sort of Invulnerability, it is limited by either "HW limits" or maybe "Any physical attack", Dante, by definition, will be able to kill this demon because he is far beyond HW constraints (If the statement is about that) and can easily, casually and passively attack in a non physical way (Soul Hax, for example). In any interpretation, he denies the Fallen's Invulnerability with his own abilities, and not by a specific Invulnerability Negation hax

His own ability is invulnerability negation. I am personally neutral to this and I can kind of agree with you.

I went over the Subjective Reality page and yes, its description does fit with these feats (The "Creation/Summoning" part). So I guess it works

Glad we came to an agreement.

 

[Ang4I00]

By the way, will Sin Devil Trigger scale above Majin Devil Trigger in this regard, which is Dante's most powerful form? And also similar in mechanics.

What do you mean? SDT wouldn't get invulnerability by scaling to MDT, because they function completely differently to each other, but SDT is definitely a bigger amp than MDT.

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

What do you mean? SDT wouldn't get invulnerability by scaling to MDT, because they function completely differently to each other, but SDT is definitely a bigger amp than MDT.

Was it ever explained where Dante's Majin Devil Trigger came from in lore? For example, where is it in other parts, or why do you think that it is weaker than SDT. Even in the novels, as far as I know, it is not mentioned.


It must have the same invulnerability, because otherwise this form would be worse, because enormous strength is worse than invulnerability.

 

[chosen]

Sdt is supposed to be dantes strongest form in general gained when he absorbs the sword. Narratively sdt not being the strongest wouldn't make sense if mdt is indeed canon

 

[Random-Helper323]

Majin form is definitely canon. It is there in game, it is described in the game guide, and it makes an appearance in the manga.

All the same, it seemed to be some kind of desperation form, only accessed when near death, and I can't help but suspect that the reason it was phased out was because it became obsolete. Specifically, I notice that canonically he doesn't seem to have voluntary access to it until DMC2, then in DMC4 he has the Dreadnought form and doesn't use the Majin form, and then in DMC5 he acquires the Sin Devil Trigger. I wonder if the Majin form is a bit like that bulky Super Saiyan form Trunks uses in DBZ, in the sense of being a form that's no longer used due to others being better. Invulnerability is the key characteristic of the Dreadnought form after all.

 

[Ang4I00]

Was it ever explained where Dante's Majin Devil Trigger came from in lore? For example, where is it in other parts, or why do you think that it is weaker than SDT. Even in the novels, as far as I know, it is not mentioned.


It must have the same invulnerability, because otherwise this form would be worse, because enormous strength is worse than invulnerability.

MDT is just Dante activating his full demonic was abilities when he's in extreme sutiutations, basically Devil Triger 2.0. It was gonna be in DMC 4 but due to time constraints they couldn't implement it, and in DMC 5 it was not needed or forgotten at this point. Its definitely weaker than SDT because SDT was achieved by tremendous amp that amped Dante to the point he could defeat Urizen with Qliphoth Fruit in base, while previously he was one shotted by Urizen on throne and it is narratively implied to be the strongest form of Dante we've ever seen.

 

[Netoriman]

-I agree with the Invulnerability for Majin form, it's a mechanic, has a whole different gameplay style and ins and outs to it. Has a statement and gameplay proving it.
The invulnerability for dreadnought seems like it will get accepted and other invulnerabilities have statements like it and have the gameplay to back it like sonic's super form.

-agree with space time

-agree with both Subjective realities, looking at the definition on its wiki page

 

[Golden_Void]

This seems more like illusion creation.

Yeah, Vergil literally says it's an illusion lmao

 

[chosen]

Yeah, Vergil literally says it's an illusion lmao

It ia indeed a illusion that can fool others no one denied that, the subjective reality part is that it created Something physical (seemingly) from Vergil memories.

We can Just wait for other staff members regarding This ig tho

 

[Random-Helper323]

It ia indeed a illusion that can fool others no one denied that, the subjective reality part is that it created Something physical (seemingly) from Vergil memories.

We can Just wait for other staff members regarding This ig tho

Plus Malphas' illusions could physically touch V. The illusion from the Qliphoth was apparently physically real too. It's not entirely an illusion if it can touch you.

 

[chosen]

Plus Malphas' illusions could physically touch V. The illusion from the Qliphoth was apparently physically real too. It's not entirely an illusion if it can touch you.

It would still be, illusions can just be things with a deceptive appearance. This is why optical illusion images exist

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Plus Malphas' illusions could physically touch V. The illusion from the Qliphoth was apparently physically real too. It's not entirely an illusion if it can touch you.

Honestly one may argue for it to be just physiology stuff from V but I don't know...

 

[chosen]

Idk about malphas honestly but i see the vision behind qlipoth

 

[chosen]

Bump

 

[chosen]

Bump or something

 

[Ang4I00]

I added some stuff in OP btw

 

[Ang4I00]

Bump