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A discussion on Youpi's Rage Blast calcs (Hunter x Hunter)

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TioKill

TioKill

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In this thread, me and @Shmeatywerbenmanjenson started debating over Youpi's feat, the basis for the entire god tier scaling outside of Post-Rose Meruem. We'd like a discus


EXPLANING THE CONTEXT OF THE FEAT​
In this feat, Youpi accumulates a lot of rage, and Nen - the energy system of HxH - ultimately culminating in an explosion so strong it utterly vaporized a sizable chunk of the ground. Youpi is then seen inside said crater trying to lure his opponent into it, and we see a full body shot of him from far away, allowing us to compare him to the crater.


WHAT ARE WE DEBATING ABOUT​

Explaning what me and @Shmeatywerbenmanjenson disagreed on.

Youpi's Height: Menthuthuyoupi does not have a canonical height, and is usually around characters without one as well (Meruem, Pitou, Post-Ant Palm). The manga is also notorious for it's inconsistent sizes, thus, allowing us to opt for the Anime as secondary canon, with it's more consistent sizes.

  • @Shmeatywerbenmanjenson's stance: They used a scene in the anime where Youpi is right next to Killua, comparing him to Youpi. Killua has a stated height in a guidebook.
Z4OZKta_d.webp

vsbattles.fandom.com

Re-calc Of Youpi's Rage Blast

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
  • My stance: I had a problem with using Killua's height. My problems were: The guidebook in question has false information regarding Hisoka's height, and Gon's birthday, arguing that the information inside this guidebook is not being taken into consideration for Togashi's canon by the author himself (at least when it comes to heights). I also had a problem with how inconsistent it was with other appearances of Youpi, where he is portrayed as smaller.
  • My alternative: Use the same height as Damage calculated in the Anime which is I consider consistent with everything.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Youpi's crater re-update (Hunter x Hunter)

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

@Shmeatywerbenmanjenson provided a counter in the form of these scans:


Using pixelscaling, and assumed heights, we get values ranging from 2.8 to 3m, which proves 3.2m is consistent in their opinion.

My problems are:
  • It uses manga panels which we already established are inconsistent. It needs to assume all characters compared to Youpi are consistent as well, it's just too unreliable (using the anime alternatives would be fine)
  • It compares Youpi with characters who have no official height, some smaller than average humans like Meruem.

Basically, we need to figure out which height is better to use for Youpi.


What's NOT going to be discussed here
  • The destruction: It's vaporization. We're NOT debating that here.

I would say the panel, but I do suggest a better panel here.



All these panels compare the size of the palace to the crater, avoiding any weirdness with unofficial heights as the castle can be calculated quite consistently, since one of it's components have a stated size:
mtRhscB.jpg


EDIT: The palace method was accepted in this calc
vsbattles.fandom.com

Updated Youpi Rage Blast

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com


We should likely focus on that

Agreements
@CloverDragon03

Disagreements
@Damage3245
 
Last edited:
Thanks for making the thread Tio, and I appreciate the fact that you did keep it Unbiased for the most part.
Though I believe the overhead views were discussed to be not as reliable as the methods that involve Youpi in them.
Though that can still be debated I still think it's worth mentioning.
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
Thanks for making the thread Tio, and I appreciate the fact that you did keep it Unbiased for the most part.
Though I believe the overhead views were discussed to be not as reliable as the methods that involve Youpi in them.
Though that can still be debated I still think it's worth mentioning.
Click to expand...
I doubt it, with Youpi's height varying so much, even more so if the anime is taken into consideration, I believe having one definitive reference point avoids this problem in it's entirety.

The palace isn't nearly as inconsistent as Youpi.
 
TioKill said:
I doubt it, with Youpi's height varying so much, even more so if the anime is taken into consideration, I believe having one definitive reference point avoids this problem in it's entirety.

The palace isn't nearly as inconsistent as Youpi.
Click to expand...
In that case Using the 5 Kilometer road or using Pitou's En would be the best course of action. I've done the latter in calculation before but I swear that method was rejected by a calc member before which is why I switched to this method.
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
In that case Using the 5 Kilometer road or using Pitou's En would be the best course of action. I've done the latter in calculation before but I swear that method was rejected by a calc member before which is why I switched to this method.
Click to expand...
Yes. I agree. I'm surprised we came to an agreement so fast.

Could you share the chapter which we see her En compared to the castle?
 
Should I call for some calc group members to take a look at this thread?
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:



It comes out to around 750 Meters if we assume Youpi is taller than Uvogin. A little less if we use the 2.5 meter mark but still well within the Low 7-B area
The old blog that it came from as well
vsbattles.fandom.com

Updated Youpi Rage Blast

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...

I prefer this method to Youpi height scaling shenanigans to be honest. I accepted this end on the blog (all looks good mathematically but this method is better imo)
 
CloverDragon03 said:
I prefer this method to Youpi height scaling shenanigans to be honest. I accepted this end on the blog (all looks good mathematically but this method is better imo)
Click to expand...
Welp, this thread is going at lightspeed, what the heck?

Thank you very very much for helping
 
CloverDragon03 said:
I prefer this method to Youpi height scaling shenanigans to be honest. I accepted this end on the blog (all looks good mathematically but this method is better imo)
Click to expand...
Holy shit, that was fast. I think we should wait for a few more inputs beforehand though as this is a major verse.
Also let me clean Up the old calc then.
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
Holy shit, that was fast. I think we should wait for a few more inputs beforehand though as this is a major verse.
Also let me clean Up the old calc then.
Click to expand...
Well as I was in the previous thread, I could immediately jump ship to this one

More help would be best though, so thanks Ant for pinging some more CGMs
 
TioKill said:
Hunter x Hunter is not really a major verse here tbh
Shit was untouched for months on end.
Click to expand...
Nah, Yu Yu Hakusho is an Untouched verse. That shit hasn't been touched in YEARS. In fact I'm currently working on an Anime only revision of the verse.

On another note I do agree that some things have been overlooked in the HxH verse and infact I have a few calcs that if all goes well would bump top-tier hunters up to Low 7-B.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Well as I was in the previous thread, I could immediately jump ship to this one

More help would be best though, so thanks Ant for pinging some more CGMs
Click to expand...
No problem, and thank you for helping out.
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
Nah, Yu Yu Hakusho is an Untouched verse. That shit hasn't been touched in YEARS. In fact I'm currently working on an Anime only revision of the verse.

On another note I do agree that some things have been overlooked in the HxH verse and infact I have a few calcs that if all goes well would bump top-tier hunters up to Low 7-B.
Click to expand...
Uhhhhh, pretty sure YYH Anime was reviewed last week by @KingTempest (Also canonized).
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
On another note I do agree that some things have been overlooked in the HxH verse and infact I have a few calcs that if all goes well would bump top-tier hunters up to Low 7-B.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure only you and charmander were making revision for the verse at the time based on what I've seen

I highly doubt about Low 7-B. I think you mean Low 7-C, given you made a Leol calc reaching that level.
 
Behold planet level YYHS. (Joking)

Back to the topic of HXH, I am still personally busy from using my private computer and everyone knows a mobile phone is not a good device in evaluating calculation blogs. So peple will have to wait if they count solely on me.
 
Jasonsith said:
Behold planet level YYHS. (Joking)

Back to the topic of HXH, I am still personally busy from using my private computer and everyone knows a mobile phone is not a good device in evaluating calculation blogs. So peple will have to wait if they count solely on me.
Click to expand...
Me making literally everything from a phone:




"Yes."
 
Damage3245 said:
I prefer the method in my own calc which is simpler than this and involves less scaling steps as far as I can tell.
Click to expand...
It doesn't. It really doesn't.

Two-step Pixel. You're using an character with no official height - whose height have been shown to disagree with what you've calculated. Not to mention it uses an assumed height for the one compared to Youpi.

Youpi is simply far too inconsistent to be considered. The palace scaling is simpler and uses official sizes.
 
Pitou's En can vary wildly; there is no reason to think that her En in that scene specifically is extending for 2 km when she just needs it to reach the palace. Can't assume that every usage of her En is at her maximum range.
 
Damage3245 said:
Pitou's En can vary wildly;
Click to expand...
We're not playing the guessing game. This hasn't been shown or stated. The only thing we're shown is her shaping it to direct it somewhere else.
nQPKSgx.jpg


She used it as a reflex, a desperato, she had no time, reason or even implied capability to restrict the size of her En, the location of the King was unknown to her (and even the probability of teleporting the King away was considered a few minutes prior, she'd use it as far ahead as possible).,
 
I know what this CGM is trying to do.

On the Pitou method, they're trying to discredit the stated size of one of the denominators, so the method is invalidated. Then when I switch to the tunnel method, they will claim that the map is just representative and not scaled to size, thus making the palace scaling invalid and forcing us to use the Youpi method again.
Then they'll try to convince us to use the shortest representation of Youpi, leading back to their own calc.



Very questionable line of reasoning. But let me get ahead of you and state that we will not be switching methods at all. The Youpi height is not going to be what we use to compare the size of the crater, no matter how hard one tries to convince us to do it.
 
TioKill said:
I know what this CGM is trying to do.

On the Pitou method, they're trying to discredit the stated size of one of the denominators, so the method is invalidated. Then when I switch to the tunnel method, they will claim that the map is just representative and not scaled to size, thus making the palace scaling invalid and forcing us to use the Youpi method again.
Then they'll try to convince us to use the shortest representation of Youpi, leading back to their own calc.



Very questionable line of reasoning. But let me get ahead of you and state that we will not be switching methods at all. The Youpi height is not going to be what we use to compare the size of the crater, no matter how hard one tries to convince us to do it.
Click to expand...
You've already given your rebuttal, so this antagonization is unnecessary. And theoretically, if enough people (including CGMs) vote in favor of using Youpi's height, that will be what gets used regardless of you and I's opposition to it.
Damage3245 said:
@TioKill; I wasn't aware that you were the sole person deciding this.
Click to expand...
I agree that TioKill's hostility was unnecessary, but I also feel something like this is only going to fuel the fire more.

Personally, I think the reasoning given for using Pitou's En is solid. It was used as a reflex, meaning Pitou's not going to be actively reducing its size. Arguing only that it "can" vary doesn't work imo now that a line of reasoning has been given for Pitou's En being at its max length
 
Pitou doesn't have to be actively reducing its size but using En as a reflex is not necessarily the same as using En at maximum range.

Has any verification been done to find the size of the palace / crater? Just because we have one comparison of Pitou's En to the palace doesn't prove a consistency in the resulting size.
 
Damage3245 said:
Pitou doesn't have to be actively reducing its size but using En as a reflex is not necessarily the same as using En at maximum range.
Click to expand...
He would have to be doing so, actually, as doing it as a reflex means you're instinctively doing it without care for holding it back (because holding back the range of it is something you've gotta actively do).
Damage3245 said:
Has any verification been done to find the size of the palace / crater? Just because we have one comparison of Pitou's En to the palace doesn't prove a consistency in the resulting size.
Click to expand...
Looking at other iterations of the crater's diameter, they appear to be in the same ballpark. Not much difference overall, hence why the results themselves were also similar. And via an image in the calc itself, you can pixel scale the crater's diameter to the palace. You'd end up with results for the palace size that also aren't much different from one another.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
He would have to be doing so, actually, as doing it as a reflex means you're instinctively doing it without care for holding it back (because holding back the range of it is something you've gotta actively do).
Click to expand...
I don't think it's ever stated that an instinctive use of En goes to the maximum range.

Since Pitou's En size in that panel is unconfirmed, I'm not in favor of using that as the basis for Youpi's calc. That's my stance on it at least.
 
To my knowledge a statement like that isn't the be-all end-all necessity. Seems logical to me that the only way to really use less than its maximum range is to hold it back yourself, and if this is done instinctively, it wouldn't be held back like that
 
Damage3245 said:
Pitou doesn't have to be actively reducing its size but using En as a reflex is not necessarily the same as using En at maximum range.
Click to expand...
Who told you 2km was Pitou's maximum range? It's said her use of En could reach 2km in places due to it's amoeba shape, but it doesn't mean that's her limit. She uses it casually and reach such points. There she was using desperately. 2km is absolutely fine.
 
TioKill said:
Who told you 2km was Pitou's maximum range? It's said her use of En could reach 2km in places due to it's amoeba shape, but it doesn't mean that's her limit. She uses it casually and reach such points. There she was using desperately. 2km is absolutely fine.
Click to expand...
Using it desperately is not proof that it was 2 km.
 
Damage3245 said:
Using it desperately is not proof that it was 2 km.
Click to expand...
It is. A desperate use would be exerting her more than a casual one, where said range is stated. In fact, it's probably even higher than that, 2km is a low end.

Anything else?
 
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