Sniper670
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1. I wasn't the one who brought him here
2. I was emphasing the fact that range is the reason most of Dante's matches are incon. And yes, it happened to both Arceus and Anos. You're missing the point
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a devil hunter vs vampire prince
- Thread starter Reploidnoridomix
- Start date
2. I was emphasing the fact that range is the reason most of Dante's matches are incon. And yes, it happened to both Arceus and Anos. You're missing the point
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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Stylishly get cucked
Sniper670
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Nothing. Besides the fact Alucard likely won't use it in character.
The other guy tried to explain that
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1. You still continued the whataboutism regardless and even contributed to it instead of putting an end to it, so my point still stands.
2. Still irreverent to this Vs thread, this is Alucard Vs Dante.
Tl;dr Alucard's most dangerous hax is likely OOC? So it's down to inherit passives then?
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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Possibly but i think it's better to wait to what glassman will say just to be sure. Since glassman said the plot hax is passive and now Lightning said it's possibly not and even if it is, it's OOC for Alucard.
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Yeah, it is, AP, Speed, Durability and Haxs evolve parallely to eacth others, all the feats in the series litelly support that. What does demons having diffent haxs and level ofspeeds debunks my argument? Regen Neg, Soul Hax, CM1 all are show time and time again to scale to demonic power, when the RE feats drops, it will be even more blatant. Stronger demons were stated to have better haxs then fodder all the time in the verse, PoC even support that even more with more layers of haxs.
So nope, nothing i'm said literally contradict anything.
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so what another stomp since alucard have passive plot hax
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So are we giving Dante every single hax in the series by him being the strongest alongside Vergil ?
That's...absurd to think about
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Wtf? haxs scaling don't means that you get every haxs on the verse, you completely missed my point.
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Ahhh, so someone at Tier 7 with Time Hax will have it stronger than someone with the same hax but at Tier 8 ?
Then yeah, totally different story
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I don't know what the hell happened here or why the match is changed but back to what I was saying. The plot stuff is just not going to work, you can all check the links in the profile or that someone posted above, hell I'll link them myself here.
Plot Manipulation (The powers of Chaos can rewrite[23] the entire narrative[23] it's in to ensure it being the winner,[23] and overflow into reality[23])
As for why it won't work:
The plot manipulation only works on the grimoires, the first link in the profile talks about how the book is changing, overwritten by the powers of chaos.
The second link shows how the heroes need to enter the grimoires to fight the monsters there, nothing about demons outside or chaos influencing the real world.
Third link talks about once again the plot affecting only the grimoires, curiously there is nothing there about "the narrative changing to ensure their victory". This also shows what happens when someone wins inside the grimoire, something the last link shows too.
Fourth link: Finally the only "proof" of it affecting the real world and... it's trash. It only says that "if the plot is changed enough the monster will get more power and will be able to come back into the real world", exactly like how Simon and Jonathan were brought up into the adventure, something the previous link shows as Jonathan wins in the grimoire and after that he can be brought into the real world. All of this because chaos is affecting the grimoires, nothing about the real world.
Here's the dialogue for those lazy ***** like me:
Arikado: No doubt this is what is affecting Charlotte. What happens if the book's contents change?
Lucy: I can only guess, since this has never happened before, but...
Lucy: Usually, the grimoire describes each age's hero defeating the monster.
Lucy: But if the hero is defeated, and the mosnter survives...
Lucy:The mosnter's magic will keep growing and eventually oversflowe into reality.
Arikado: The grimoire will fall into chaos, "and even more monsters will materialize in our world."
After this the previous video happens, they defeat the monster and Jonathan wins therefore materializing in the real world. There is zero plot hax involved in the real world. This would work if, say, Dante and Dracula were inside the grimoires but as that isn't the case...
Plot Manipulation (The powers of Chaos can rewrite[23] the entire narrative[23] it's in to ensure it being the winner,[23] and overflow into reality[23])
As for why it won't work:
The plot manipulation only works on the grimoires, the first link in the profile talks about how the book is changing, overwritten by the powers of chaos.
The second link shows how the heroes need to enter the grimoires to fight the monsters there, nothing about demons outside or chaos influencing the real world.
Third link talks about once again the plot affecting only the grimoires, curiously there is nothing there about "the narrative changing to ensure their victory". This also shows what happens when someone wins inside the grimoire, something the last link shows too.
Fourth link: Finally the only "proof" of it affecting the real world and... it's trash. It only says that "if the plot is changed enough the monster will get more power and will be able to come back into the real world", exactly like how Simon and Jonathan were brought up into the adventure, something the previous link shows as Jonathan wins in the grimoire and after that he can be brought into the real world. All of this because chaos is affecting the grimoires, nothing about the real world.
Here's the dialogue for those lazy ***** like me:
Arikado: No doubt this is what is affecting Charlotte. What happens if the book's contents change?
Lucy: I can only guess, since this has never happened before, but...
Lucy: Usually, the grimoire describes each age's hero defeating the monster.
Lucy: But if the hero is defeated, and the mosnter survives...
Lucy:The mosnter's magic will keep growing and eventually oversflowe into reality.
Arikado: The grimoire will fall into chaos, "and even more monsters will materialize in our world."
After this the previous video happens, they defeat the monster and Jonathan wins therefore materializing in the real world. There is zero plot hax involved in the real world. This would work if, say, Dante and Dracula were inside the grimoires but as that isn't the case...
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If what Tony's saying is true then it might not be such a sure Alucard/Dracula dub if it only works on the Grimoires.
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Tbh I've gotten three very different descriptions for how the plot hax works and they pretty much all contradict each other (To just creating creatures of chaos, to only being useable within the Grimoire and ofc being actually being useable in the real world).
We need a mutual agreement on how exactly it works before going further because this is a sure fire way of arguing in circles (assuming the plot hax is even an applicable factor in this current MU).
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I mean, that's fair.
I'm not into Castlevania enough to give my own personal opinion on how it should work, so I think someone more knowledgeable than myself should try their hand at it.
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Ditto outside SotN, I'm mostly a Lord of Shadow's person myself.
LoS timeline has it too hmmph.
^Pretty much this. Regardless of the outcome of this Vs thread I'm just glad @Theglassman12 and the other Castlevania supporters gave the verse a much needed update.
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@Lightning_XXI First off, Alucard has intentionally restrained his powers before, as Arikado, he only goes to Alucard when it's absolutely necessary, such as when he was stopping any incoming threat. Second the chaos stuff kicks in once the creatures of chaos do their thing since they had to restrain the vital souls, which are chaos empowered as stated numerous times, and only restraining and sealing away its power does the narrative rewrite stop working.
Also you missed the Aguni and Dario resistance to regen negation feat that they have. So Alucard at bare minimum upscales from a higher tier high godly negation given he can slay dark lord soma who has Aguni's soul. That and Alucard might get high godly as well if I push for a certain upgrade to the regens of any boss but we'll have to see.
@Tony_di_bugalu First the book is the world these creatures originates from, and they can break out of the narrative to make themselves the winner, they aren't hopping into the stories, they are a part of the story to begin with. Second Plot hax from creatures of chaos do affect the real world, literally magic books, which are normal enemies of the castle can rewrite the plot in the real world against any foe. So this whole idea that it only works in the grimoires is flat out untrue.
Also you missed the Aguni and Dario resistance to regen negation feat that they have. So Alucard at bare minimum upscales from a higher tier high godly negation given he can slay dark lord soma who has Aguni's soul. That and Alucard might get high godly as well if I push for a certain upgrade to the regens of any boss but we'll have to see.
@Tony_di_bugalu First the book is the world these creatures originates from, and they can break out of the narrative to make themselves the winner, they aren't hopping into the stories, they are a part of the story to begin with. Second Plot hax from creatures of chaos do affect the real world, literally magic books, which are normal enemies of the castle can rewrite the plot in the real world against any foe. So this whole idea that it only works in the grimoires is flat out untrue.
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That's not what the links posted show, like I said they specifically note how the whole plot stuff is going on inside the grimoires, nothing is ever hinted about the real world, the second link directly states they need to jump inside the grimoires to help the heroes of those stories. I quote:
Lucy: Your ultimate aim inside the books is to destroy monsters and claim their vital souls
...
Lucy: More Grioires are waiting to be pacified so I'm afraid your work is far from over!
The last link directly says how monsters only materialize in the real world if they win which is something Jonathan does when he wins, absolutely nothing else.
This is actually a decent one, not completely sold off but it works. Mind you this one isn't passive like you were trying to claim the other one is.
Also being normal enemies doesn't mean a thing, not all creatures of darkness can stop time or pull the abilities others have and they are certainly not able to pull this shit off. Drac may be able to but then again it isn't passive which gives Dante all the time in the world to love tap him to death.
Lucy: Your ultimate aim inside the books is to destroy monsters and claim their vital souls
...
Lucy: More Grioires are waiting to be pacified so I'm afraid your work is far from over!
The last link directly says how monsters only materialize in the real world if they win which is something Jonathan does when he wins, absolutely nothing else.
This is actually a decent one, not completely sold off but it works. Mind you this one isn't passive like you were trying to claim the other one is.
Also being normal enemies doesn't mean a thing, not all creatures of darkness can stop time or pull the abilities others have and they are certainly not able to pull this shit off. Drac may be able to but then again it isn't passive which gives Dante all the time in the world to love tap him to death.
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And they'd break out and infect more of the world with chaos as they're trying to prevent that from happening. It's the main reason Alucard's remotely helping the organization with these grimoires.
With creatures of chaos scaling to the same basic thing, yes it does mean a thing cause weaker enemies can do these abilities on the real world while stronger ones just need to exist and it works. Literally anything that's shown to be a part of chaos that the monsters can do all cross scales by default due to their nature. Dracula is passive cause he has the closest connection to chaos out of any other being in the series, If random boss enemies in the series can do this passively, Dracula can do this passively too.
With creatures of chaos scaling to the same basic thing, yes it does mean a thing cause weaker enemies can do these abilities on the real world while stronger ones just need to exist and it works. Literally anything that's shown to be a part of chaos that the monsters can do all cross scales by default due to their nature. Dracula is passive cause he has the closest connection to chaos out of any other being in the series, If random boss enemies in the series can do this passively, Dracula can do this passively too.
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Chaos is working to defeat the heroes in the grimoires and bring monsters to the real world. That's good and all but it isn't proof of Plot hax working in the real world.
Considering the scan says the books have to write in themselves for this shit to work I severely doubt any other monster is gonna pull this shit.
Being stronger doesn't mean they are able to do this, by this logic Dante has all the shit Mundus and Argosax have, more than that they don't "need to exist and it works".
The scan literally says "and so they are able to write cruel endings...", they need to actively do that.
There is zero proof for Dracula doing this, let alone passively. I can honestly buy him being capable of doing it but not passively.
Except you haven't given any proof of that? Unless you mean the grimoires stuff which again is only inside the damn books
Considering the scan says the books have to write in themselves for this shit to work I severely doubt any other monster is gonna pull this shit.
Being stronger doesn't mean they are able to do this, by this logic Dante has all the shit Mundus and Argosax have, more than that they don't "need to exist and it works".
The scan literally says "and so they are able to write cruel endings...", they need to actively do that.
There is zero proof for Dracula doing this, let alone passively. I can honestly buy him being capable of doing it but not passively.
Except you haven't given any proof of that? Unless you mean the grimoires stuff which again is only inside the damn books
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Except for the magic books working in the real world which debunks your argument.
Where exactly does it say that the books have to be written in for the chaos stuff to work? Because if it's only in the books then why does Lucy have to seal away the vital souls in the real world if it wasn't going to cause anymore havoc due to it not working in the real world?
Strawman, they literally have the same chaos powers, all of them have this exact thing that's shown to work with numerous creatures regardless of who they are, this isn't demon world scaling, this is part of the basic features of the creatures of chaos, which has been accepted already.
Yeah, the fodder enemies have to actively do it, not the boss enemies who literally exists with chaos powers and it works.
You mean the guy who has the powers of every creature of the night period? Yeah try a better ******* argument than that.
Yes I have, I've given proof plot hax can work in the real world, and I've shown in the scans that their existence with chaos can rewrite reality. Dracula is far closer to chaos than any other being and is literally composite castlevania monsters. All the proof is there unless you wanna be in denial.
Where exactly does it say that the books have to be written in for the chaos stuff to work? Because if it's only in the books then why does Lucy have to seal away the vital souls in the real world if it wasn't going to cause anymore havoc due to it not working in the real world?
Strawman, they literally have the same chaos powers, all of them have this exact thing that's shown to work with numerous creatures regardless of who they are, this isn't demon world scaling, this is part of the basic features of the creatures of chaos, which has been accepted already.
Yeah, the fodder enemies have to actively do it, not the boss enemies who literally exists with chaos powers and it works.
You mean the guy who has the powers of every creature of the night period? Yeah try a better ******* argument than that.
Yes I have, I've given proof plot hax can work in the real world, and I've shown in the scans that their existence with chaos can rewrite reality. Dracula is far closer to chaos than any other being and is literally composite castlevania monsters. All the proof is there unless you wanna be in denial.
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That doesn't really cover the main point, him unrestricting his powers at humanity's worse possible moments would be a dangerous double edged sword, it may help them, but it also plot haxes many, many others into making Chaos the winner, in the end, him using this kind of power at any given point goes against his character. Him unrestricting his powers helps, sure, but it can't be used as a excuse given that the moments where he goes into Alucard mode are literally the most dangerous, world-ending events. At best, he may use if he has to absolutely go all out in order to survive/defeat Dante (It may even be something out of his control)
However, I completely agree with you on Tony's points, the statement itself says it will affect our reality, and any Chaos based creature is capable of that, even more for Dracula since he has all demons and creatures abilities
Indeed I did
You know, this discussion kinda explains most of Alucard's quotes about not being able to live a normal life, saying that it is best for the world with him sleeping, and eventually nuking part of his powers to "avoid Dracula's return", I doubt the developers thought about this, but it sure relates a lot with Chaos Plot Powers
Poor Alucard
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Considering even Julius was surprised that Alucard had to resort to his original state and Alucard mentioned they cannot take any chances to stop Soma, yeah I'd say it doesn't really go against his character as he'll go into this state when absolutely necessary.
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Still the dumbest thread I have watched here since almost every other game sonic thread
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don't know what you mean,dante absolute stomp arceus,he have the high godly-regen and even if dante doesn't have enough layer,if all that thing couldn't kill dante,he can evolvto the state that can beat arceus
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How does he have the range to effect Arceus?
Can he even effect large size 9?
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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I don't see that in his profile
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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Ik this is derail but well, here's the thread where Dante stomps Arceus
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So is this MU still worth debating or is the derail going to continue?
Sniper670
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most of the stuff llama can do are never really used in matches anyway. They focus everything on large size Type 9, and when that fails, well, he's ******
Sniper670
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Look at that. As if Type 9 is the only thing Llama can do lol
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like i said.dante will just evolve, adapt and resist everything that llama threw onto him since both are just 4-D potency
Sniper670
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Arceus can devolve him. Making his RE useless
Arceus ignores resistances anyway. He's going to deal as much damage as he would regardless
Don't worry, his 2A plates and avatar are merely fragments of his True Form, so I'll stick with his avatar. Otherwise DMC verse gets turned into sludge
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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Could you just stop derailing the thread with arceus bullshit stuff this isn't the thread for it, was asked by a user and got dropped no need to continue it
Sniper670
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Acting as if I started the derailment. Lol
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Both the start and the continue of this debate is derail, make a thread for this fight and leave this one
