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A crocodile in the mansion of the dead (Giant Crocodile vs Dead Master)

I will note with the Stealth that it has +5 to it in spite of its dex being listed as 9 (aka -1 to its checks if it wasn't adept in it)
So it'd be really weird if this crocodile did not use it at all when it's so good at it it has a big ass bonus for it in spite of natural problems with it
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Also, in 5e, that's the only skill the Giant Croc has. So he uses stealth everytime.
Click to expand...
nope that means nothing just because it's his only special skill doesn't mean that he'll use instead of biting or something

and the whole stealth stuff again do not really matter given how the water isn't that deep so it's not like he's gonna turn invisible due to stealth that's not how it works
 
Zencha9 said:
nope that means nothing just because it's his only special skill doesn't mean that he'll use instead of biting or something

and the whole stealth stuff again do not really matter given how the water isn't that deep so it's not like he's gonna turn invisible due to stealth that's not how it works
Click to expand...
???

He can stealth against adventurers, Elves in particular having high senses which she lacks, by the way. And that's just level 1. This guy deals with lvl 5.
 
The place is also dark, Dead Master can't see well in that environment while it can soooooo
 
basicbiology.net

Crocodile: Hunting, Diet and Diversity | Basic Biology

A crocodile is a stealthy predators from an ancient group of reptiles. Crocodiles include alligators, caiman, true crocodiles and gharials
basicbiology.net basicbiology.net
Crocodiles hunt by stealthily stalking their prey from water. Some species ambush their prey as they drink from the water’s edge or bath. Many species are able to kill and eat large mammals such as zebras, wildebeests and humans. Once it has caught its prey, a crocodile will then drag it into the water and drown it. It eats its prey by biting off large chunks of meat and swallows them whole. Other species, such as the Chinese alligator and gharial, feed primarily on fish or invertebrates.
Click to expand...

A crocodile's amo it to drag someone to the water, I fail to see why a giant version of the animal would not use stealth and do the same
Also crocs are fairly flat, so the water being a few meters tall is probably enough for it to hide in it in spite of its size
 
Anyways, will summarize my arguments:
  • Agreeing with Tllmbrg that the crocodile holds an advantage at every stat besides range and intelligence
  • The crocodilians main tactic when hunting (which would be the case here, as it can detect prey nearby but doesn't have line of sight) is to ambush their victims. The Giant Crocodile has stealth mastery, to which she has absolutely no answer for.
  • Even if she's able to evade the ambush somehow, the Giant Croc can deal with the equivalent of four people that hold stat advantage over her, and some could even equal her fighting style, yet the croc can still threaten and beat at once.
  • Adding on to that the croc can literally take aside her weaponry through it's natural attacks, of which it can use two at once (it's mouth and tail), so even through evasion (which is common between the adventurers the croc can fight and threaten, by the way) it could pose a challenge.

For these reasons the Croc wins.
 
  • all that's been posted is about how they haunt not how they do in a fight really nothing really says that he'll just get into the water at the start of the fight never
  • how the croc can fight 4 people at the same time has never been answered and thus cannot be used in this fight without more context it could just be abusing his stealth while haunting which is not the case here and dead master's chains are not only limited to 4 so it won't matter that much
  • if the croc goes for stealth (which neither have posted actual evidence of him using in an actual fight) then she'll just counter with her skulls since usually they're chilling beside her and if he gets out then it is pretty much his last chance since not only does she uses her weapon she could also use her claws
so far the best argument for the croc winning is stealth which won't guarantee him a win unless the skulls aren't there
 
Zencha9 said:
  • all that's been posted is about how they haunt not how they do in a fight really nothing really says that he'll just get into the water at the start of the fight never
  • how the croc can fight 4 people at the same time has never been answered and thus cannot be used in this fight without more context it could just be abusing his stealth while haunting which is not the case here and dead master's chains are not only limited to 4 so it won't matter that much
  • if the croc goes for stealth (which neither have posted actual evidence of him using in an actual fight) then she'll just counter with her skulls since usually they're chilling beside her and if he gets out then it is pretty much his last chance since not only does she uses her weapon she could also use her claws
so far the best argument for the croc winning is stealth which won't guarantee him a win unless the skulls aren't there
Click to expand...
  • They don't have line of sight to each other. She doesn't have ways to detect the Croc. The croc does; as such, this will be consider a hunt to it. That's just simply natural behavior for crocodilians in general.
  • The croc fights using it's mouth and tail, most likely after a fail ambush (specially in this scenario in particular). Fights in dnd can happen with so much variety, it's literally impossible to narrow it down. It all depends on the scenario first: Here in this case, they are essentially enclosed in a dark area with no line of sight. That would begin ambush face. After that, if it somehow failed (which I see no argument for), it would fight head on using it's natural weaponry. We know for a fact the croc can deal with skilled and experienced opponents of virtually any kind, shape or form. Even some that can replicate her own fighting style, are even stronger and smarter than her. We know for a fact it can threaten and even beat them. That's simply what the Challenge Rating means.
  • Do the skulls have enhanced senses of any kind whatsoever? Because that's not on the profile. The croc can still fight against all of them at once and win.

My last comment.
 
While I am generally of the mindset that Tllm is wrong, I think I ought to agree here. Lephyr makes damn good arguments in his favor. I think the advantages of Dead Master are wildly overstated based on how they've been explained in this thread, too. The terrain favors the crocodile enough to nerf the fight in its favor. So, I will indeed vote the croc.

If the skulls do have enhanced senses then that may be something, btw, as it partially negates the croc's advantage. I don't know that it'd be enough to overturn my vote, I suppose it depends on the extent of the senses.
 
i just want to clarify is there anything under the place like a floor or something like that?
 
Do you mean, under the water? If so then I'd assume so. If you mean another story down below, from what I know about Spooky's there is but it's a good ways down. Levels are separated by lengthy elevator rides.
 
then why can't she break it? she already did in her fight against BRS
and she can ride on her skulls to prevent the fall
 
...how would she even know to do it?
Why would she do it first thing (Which is what she'd need to do realistically to not get stealth trapped)
 
Tllmbrg said:
...how would she even know to do it?
Why would she do it first thing (Which is what she'd need to do realistically to not get stealth trapped)
Click to expand...
by hitting the floor with floor with her scythe which sent a tons of shock waves and broke the floor i don't see any reason to why she shouldn't do that if given how her opponent is hiding in the water
 
Zencha, all due respect, at 9-A this isn't really a feasible strategy, nor would it really be wise. Not only would it be taking a great deal of time (9-A really isn't much in terms of destroying stone, roughly one cubic meter at a time), it would leave her incredibly vulnerable to the crocodile. If she's just literally playing Minecraft and digging straight down, nothing stops the crocodile from slaughtering her. As mentioned, the next floor down is quite deep.

This is a goofy argument, man.
 
Not to mention that you're implying that her MO against an enemy that she doesn't see is to attack the floor?
Like I checked her fight sections in that OVA link, she only used the floor wrecking move once
And that was after duking it out with Shooter after a bit
 
if she can't break the floor with one attack then it is what it is i don't think she'll just keep digging
and i was just saying if she can create shockwaves and break the floor it might help her against the stealth and the water but it doesn't seem like it so oh well
 
So yah, unless there's something else up her sleeve she likely gets wrecked due to the area they're fighting in
It just favors the Crocodile which with the stat edge is oof for her
 
nah it's good lol, I just like bein' dramatic
 
And just to get this concluded

Big Croc FRA

And that's grace, thank you everyone

{Also in case you're wondering, this is allowed based on this thread}
 
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