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A couple Jojo questions

KingKenjo

KingKenjo

691
184
First question I have is, I keep hearing about Stands having "layered Intangibility," but I'm not entire sure why. Is it because they're non-corporeal and have Phasing, or is it something different I missed?

Second, how does King Crimson's Time Erasure interact with a generic Time Manip Resistance? Because I have been trying to think of how that'd work for like 20 minutes now and I still have no clue.

Thanks in advance for any and all answers
 
And, if they have an all encompassing time manip resistance, then I’d say time erasure while they can’t stop it, they would prob be able to move and see in it. But a specific resistances to something like time stop or time slow would likely be useless.
 
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks the layered intangibility is BS. I was just being polite in case I'd missed something... Cuz I've made that mistake before
 
KingKenjo said:
Second, how does King Crimson's Time Erasure interact with a generic Time Manip Resistance? Because I have been trying to think of how that'd work for like 20 minutes now and I still have no clue.
Click to expand...
well resistance to time manipulation is a case by case thing so there's really no answer to this question
resistance to time stop is useless against it, but if they acausality then they'd probably be able to act in the removed period of time
 
KingKenjo said:
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks the layered intangibility is BS. I was just being polite in case I'd missed something... Cuz I've made that mistake before
Click to expand...
also, you might have missed this one, but here.
And this
vsbattles.fandom.com

Stand

Jotaro! What you believed to be an evil spirit is a powerful vision, created from your own life energy. Because it appears next to you, that vision is called... a Stand! Stands (スタンド Sutando) are a supernatural power unique to JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. A Stand is an entity psychically generated...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
i dont have the mikitaka scan atm. so this'll do for now.

theres also the one where Polnareff phases through Death 13, so stands being "invincible spiritual energy" or shit like that, shouldnt only be limited to not being able to see, etc.
 
Answer to the first question:
Stands have layered npi because ghosts and people who can see ghosts cannot interact / see a stand.

Answer to the second question:
Can be? King Crimson also influences causality so I can't give an absolute answer.
 
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks the layered intangibility is BS. I was just being polite in case I'd missed something... Cuz I've made that mistake before
Click to expand...

Lol what? No they aren't, they're a part of Purgatory, but they aren't ghosts. They're said to be an unstoppable force of nature in JoJoveller, not ghosts despite popular belief. They're there own entity, much like the mountain gods and other such things, a part of the world that just exists.
 
about the layered intangibility, it’s probably about the whole “ghosts can’t interact with stands” thing

Also, different stands have different “layers” of intangibility too, like, Dragon’s Dream was intangible even to F.F.’s stand attacks
 
Honestly two statements about "only Stands can interact with other Stands" and "Stands are an unstoppable force of nature" doesn't convince me that ghosts can't interact with them. The sheer fact is we never see a ghost even attempt to touch a Stand, so it's vaguely possible at best. It's just as possible that they'd interact with ghosts like an energy attack would to a physical body since they're described as an entity of Spiritual energy (so technically still tangible). This isn't a CRT, so my bitching here isn't gonna change anything. All I'm saying is that I need more evidence.
(And before people mention Kira's soul being taken to Hell, the ghost hands are only going for him and not Killer Queen, I don't think that proves anything)

Also to address some of the specific ones mentioned. Silver Chariot phasing through Death 13... Well, all Stands have Phasing. I know this. As for Dragon's Dream, that is much more acceptable as a one-off rather than something that all Stands have. Though it might still be Phasing like with Polnareff.
 
KingKenjo said:
Honestly two statements about "only Stands can interact with other Stands" and "Stands are an unstoppable force of nature" doesn't convince me that ghosts can't interact with them. The sheer fact is we never see a ghost even attempt to touch a Stand, so it's vaguely possible at best. It's just as possible that they'd interact with ghosts like an energy attack would to a physical body since they're described as an entity of Spiritual energy (so technically still tangible). This isn't a CRT, so my bitching here isn't gonna change anything. All I'm saying is that I need more evidence.
(And before people mention Kira's soul being taken to Hell, the ghost hands are only going for him and not Killer Queen, I don't think that proves anything)

Also to address some of the specific ones mentioned. Silver Chariot phasing through Death 13... Well, all Stands have Phasing. I know this. As for Dragon's Dream, that is much more acceptable as a one-off rather than something that all Stands have. Though it might still be Phasing like with Polnareff.
Click to expand...
Except that, stands are expressed to be invincible spiritual energy, which, mind you, ghosts like Reimi exists, but despite that, stands are considered to be invincible spiritual energy, so no.

"Silver chariot phased" no, it was Pol that was being choked by death 13 but was unable to even touch death 13, at all. His hands and shit just phased through him and all. "vaguely possible at best" if you dont ignore statements about the invincibility to others, and what it actually refers to, then thats not true. Its not just "being unseen" but it also refers to intangibility "ah but it has to say it!" incase you say that- Thats wrong. We have feats shown to us as to what happens if a somebody interacts with a stand without NPI, and its not limited to visual, it extends to EVEN touch. So why would we assume this isnt the case for ghosts as well, who, stands are literally shown to be > them? And even have statements throughout the verse having them considered to be invincible, despite their existence in the story? Saying it doesnt apply to ghosts as well is sus bro.
 
Okay so I just realized I was arguing this wrong the whole time. Give me another chance to explain my points, I think I got this down now.

So, first off, why are Stands intangible?
On the Stand page they are listed to be non-corporeal and can phase through solid matter.

Ghosts are by default assumed to be immaterial intangible entities due to being made of a disembodied soul, which isn't physical matter.

However, no characters at all are assumed to have non-corporeal NPI without feats, including characters who are ghosts.

Slams hand on desk Ace Attorney style
What I'm getting at with this information is that unless Stands are also Immaterial in nature, it does not prove that they are "more intangible" just because ghosts can't hit them. Ghosts would need a feat or something concrete in order to prove that. The statements about Stands being "invincible" are irrelevant once you break the logic down like this.

I hope I made a better point here than in my last posts.
 
KingKenjo said:
As for Dragon's Dream, that is much more acceptable as a one-off rather than something that all Stands have. Though it might still be Phasing like with Polnareff.
Click to expand...
yeah I was just talking about how stands can have different “layers” of intangibility, but yeah Dragon’s Dream specifically has that, it’s not like all stands have it or anything
 
Eclipso said:
yeah I was just talking about how stands can have different “layers” of intangibility, but yeah Dragon’s Dream specifically has that, it’s not like all stands have it or anything
Click to expand...
Lol, I completely changed my argument after I made that point, so you're responding to something I'm not even arguing anymore
 
Anyways, Emporio states his ghost objects(which are ghosts) can’t kill living things, so ghosts can’t interact with stands(if his ghost gun could, he could shoot a stand and do more than just scare the user)

 
Eclipso said:
Anyways, Emporio states his ghost objects(which are ghosts) can’t kill living things, so ghosts can’t interact with stands(if his ghost gun could, he could shoot a stand and do more than just scare the user)

Click to expand...

I believe this part of my new argument covers this.
KingKenjo said:
So, first off, why are Stands intangible?
On the Stand page they are listed to be non-corporeal and can phase through solid matter.

Ghosts are by default assumed to be immaterial intangible entities due to being made of a disembodied soul, which isn't physical matter.

However, no characters at all are assumed to have non-corporeal NPI without feats, including characters who are ghosts.
Click to expand...
So essentially the point is that ghosts not being able to hit Stands doesn't make Stands more intangible than them, but that they're just intangible for different reasons and thus interaction is logically impossible.
 
I mean, if a literal soul cant interact with the manifestation of somebodies soul.... Ghosts and stands are very similar. in many ways, a stand is literally the users soul. It just has superpowers. When Black Sabbath draws out the old Mario guys soul, it’s just a ghostly visage of him. But when Giornos soul comes out, it’s Golden experience that appears. Thus, stands are souls. And thus, they would be intangible for the same reasons a ghost is. And so, if a ghost can’t interact with a stand, but can interact with itself and other ghosts, stands are simply more intangible
 
StekFence said:
I mean, if a literal soul cant interact with the manifestation of somebodies soul.... Ghosts and stands are very similar. in many ways, a stand is literally the users soul. It just has superpowers. When Black Sabbath draws out the old Mario guys soul, it’s just a ghostly visage of him. But when Giornos soul comes out, it’s Golden experience that appears. Thus, stands are souls. And thus, they would be intangible for the same reasons a ghost is. And so, if a ghost can’t interact with a stand, but can interact with itself and other ghosts, stands are simply more intangible
Click to expand...
I have been letting this point stew with me for ages because I didn't wanna make a half assed response, but for the first time here I don't think I have anything I can say against this. So, I tip my hat and concede that I was wrong.
I don't regret questioning something I felt had faulty logic at the time, but debating like this is how some of the best learning happens. So thank you for helping me get a better understanding of how the funny ora ora man punches so good, lol
 
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