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A (comparatively minor) Mario CRT

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Maverick_Zero_X

Maverick_Zero_X

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Optional Equipment​

“Standard Equipment: Hammer, F.L.U.D.D, and various power-up and items”

Standard Equipment refers to items one usually on their person. All Mario characters should be given Optional Equipment tabbers to reflect that they don’t have every power-up they’ve ever used on their person, which seems to be what their profiles currently imply.

Should be simple edits.

AP Justification revisions​

Note that neither of these revisions will result in Tier changes.

Can harm Power Moon users, which are comparable to Power Stars
Click to expand...

Is this stated or shown anywhere? Power Stars enable intergalactic travel at many times the speed of light while over 100 Power Moons are required to fly from the Earth to the moon.

If there’s nothing indicating Power Moons scale to Power Stars this bit should be removed from Mario and Luigi’s profiles.

Antasma: Can fight evenly with Mario powered-up by Dreamy Luigi, who can manipulate constellations, turn his Luiginoids back into them, and utilized them for Luiginary attacks. Capable of overpowering and trapping Dreamy Luigi in his orbs and consuming him to increase his power. Capable of manipulating the Dream World
Click to expand...

This was brought up in another thread but kinda sidelined by 2-B discussion so I’ll make sure it’s applied here.

The constellation Dreamy Luigi manipulates is visibly comparable in size to Mario & Luigi. The stars are not proportional in size to actual stars so this feat should be removed as supporting evidence to Tier 4.

Note this feat was simply High 4-C so its removal doesn’t hurt the current ratings.

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Worth noting he can store certain abilities/power-ups on his person but yeah, obviously revisions on what is and isn't optional should happen.

As far as I know FLUDD can get yeeted.

Rest looks fine
 
As per the Optional Equipment rules on RPG characters and there equipment, anything that can only be stored there goes to optional

in the main games, his Power Storage is like, Super Mushroom, Micro Mushroom, Mega Mushroom, Propeller Mushroom, Fire Flower, Ice Flower, Gold Flower, Tanooki Leaf, P Wing, Cape Feather, Tanooki Suit, Frog Suit, Hammer Suit, Blue Shell, Penguin Suit, Acorn Suit, P Acorn Suit, Cat Suit, Cat Suit Bell, Boomerang Suit, Warp Whistle And of course Super Star
 
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So basically power-ups and items not from RPGs. Should be an easy list to make.

I do think a Hammer without power-ups should be part of his Standard Equipment. Even in the main games he and Luigi pulled out hammers to fix a broken pipe in 3D World.
 
There is also the various items in Mario Kart and Mario Party, however I’m not too sure on how to rate them since they don’t transfer to the next Course/Board, there is also the Maker Suit in Mario Maker 2 but again you don’t hold onto it past the level you play it as

Hammer as standard is fine

i think the 1-Up or “Lives” counts as Standard since every game starts with 3 of them, but I don’t remember if there counted as an ability or just a simple game mechanic
 
Some more character specific stuff

Yoshi gets to keep the Morph Caps (he can start levels as them), and the special items in Yoshi’s Island (info below from the Mario wiki)
10-Point Star - Increases the Countdown Timer by ten.
20-Point Star - Increases the Countdown Timer by twenty.
Anytime Egg - Gives Yoshi a full supply of six eggs.
Anywhere POW - Turns all enemies on the screen into Stars.
Winged Cloud Maker - Turns all enemies on the screen into Winged Clouds.
Magnifying Glass - Reveals which coins are Red Coins and secret Winged Clouds.
Super Green Watermelon - Places a green watermelon in Yoshi's mouth, allowing him to spit seeds.
Super Red Watermelon - Places a red watermelon in Yoshi's mouth, allowing him to breathe fire.
Super Blue Watermelon - Places a blue watermelon in Yoshi's mouth, allowing him to freeze enemies.
Click to expand...

Toadette can keep her ever so infamous Super Crown
 
Lives haven't had a thread talking about whether or not it's a game mechanic or actually canon yet which honestly there's enough to go on to make an argument for, but it would probably be controversial.

In my opinion there's far too many examples and indications beyond tutorials that show the characters clearly recognize they're in a game and that typical game mechanics are somewhat canon in their universe, such as Shaydes mentioning their extra lives running out and getting game overs, "game overs" being said repeatedly, 1-Ups being acknowledged in canon, Whomp King getting tired of his speech should you die and challenge him again, characters stating they need to save their progress/games in random dialogue in the middle of the game, other save files being mentioned, etc. There's even acknowledgment of The Player themselves.

But idk maybe we should save that for it's own thread. Because there's also the japanese translations to take into account, where I believe in Super Paper Mario's case the western copies were all given a censorship referring to the game over and Underwhere thing while in Japan it's literally just Hell/The Underworld and characters directly say they died IIRC, though the extra lives stuff may still be there. This is why I'd have to check up on these and then try and make a thread if I deem it a worthy effort.
 
I’ve created a draft of the edits I’ll make:

vsbattles.fandom.com

Mario Equipment CRT

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Innate Abilities is self-explanatory, Standard Equipment is stuff Mario can keep in storage in the mainline 2D platformers, and Optional Equipment is occasional/onetime stuff.
 
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You know the constellation feat reminded me of the other feat from Mario Party 4, and I got to thinking... Uh, what exactly proves that Star is a Power Star?

Is there a specific statement we use to justify that reasoning or are we just assuming they are Power Stars? And how do we know these are real stars it manipulated? All of Mario Party 4 takes place inside a Party Cube, so it's unlikely that was actually the night sky we see.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
You know the constellation feat reminded me of the other feat from Mario Party 4, and I got to thinking... Uh, what exactly proves that Star is a Power Star?
Click to expand...
Not sure tbh. If it means anything the Mario wiki classifies them as “Stars” or “Super Stars”, and I’m not sure if there’s a statement that indicates Stars in MP amp their holders.

www.mariowiki.com

Star (Mario Party series)

Stars are essential collectible items in the Mario Party series. They look identical to Super Stars and Power Stars. They are most often found at Star Spaces. Once a Star is bought, its Star Space moves to another location. Traditionally, 20 coins...
www.mariowiki.com www.mariowiki.com
 
The first 3 Mario Party's do have feats done with the Star's powers, but I don't know if this feat should be attributed to the Power Stars specifcally.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:

Optional Equipment​

“Standard Equipment: Hammer, F.L.U.D.D, and various power-up and items”

Standard Equipment refers to items one usually on their person. All Mario characters should be given Optional Equipment tabbers to reflect that they don’t have every power-up they’ve ever used on their person, which seems to be what their profiles currently imply.

Should be simple edits.
Click to expand...
As others have said, hammers and power-ups that characters can store on their person in games were agreed before to be standard equipment. The list that DragonLord gave seems fine at a glance.

Maverick_Zero_X said:
Is this stated or shown anywhere? Power Stars enable intergalactic travel at many times the speed of light while over 100 Power Moons are required to fly from the Earth to the moon.

If there’s nothing indicating Power Moons scale to Power Stars this bit should be removed from Mario and Luigi’s profiles.
Click to expand...
You get Power Stars in place of Power Moons in the Mushroom Kingdom. They add to your total power moon count, so they should be comparable.

Maverick_Zero_X said:
The constellation Dreamy Luigi manipulates is visibly comparable in size to Mario & Luigi. The stars are not proportional in size to actual stars so this feat should be removed as supporting evidence to Tier 4.

Note this feat was simply High 4-C so its removal doesn’t hurt the current ratings.
Click to expand...
I do agree with this, same goes to the "sun" and the "planet" that Dreamy Luigi is also capable of possessing. It's treated as a huge deal when Dreamy Luigi grows to the size of a mountain, so saying that he simply makes himself stellar-sized is a reach.

I feel like it's pretty obvious that the stars in Mario Party are Power Stars. They amp their users (see Mario Party 2 + DS) just like Power Stars, look identical and shine the same way that Power Stars do. Mario Wiki classifying them as separate is pretty irrelevant.
 
You can't just assume they are though. They don't look identical either. Modern day depictions of both give Power Stars a more metallic look while the Stars in MP look closer to the Super Star item. The practically remakes of the original Mario Party 1-3 boards also have this design difference now.

And even then, this still says nothing of the Party Cube being where the feat takes place, where we can't prove those stars are the real things at all.
 
Unless I’m mistaken them looking similar doesn’t mean anything, unless Power Stars are Starmen.
 
The Starman power up actually appears in games with Power Stars in the form of rainbow stars and acts distinctly different. Mario Party Stars and Power Stars look pretty much identical (see: Odyssey Power Star + Super Mario Party Stars), went through similar visual changes (Stars in the N64 era, SM64 and the first Mario Parties, have large black eyes which have now changed to slimmer gray eyes). They share the same purpose (collectible items which make the user stronger by collecting more of them). When there's this much overlap between the two, we should just call a spade a spade.
 
I dunno about Power Moons being the same. Their energy levels are vastly different. What took a single Power Star to enable a ship to become functional again and fly to another galaxy took like 5 or so Power Moons and even more when it crashes later to fix the Odyssey up and can only enable it to fly across the countries of the world at maybe hypersonic speeds at best. The "Power Stars" in Odyssey are just called differently shaped Power Moons by Cappy. There's no direct proof they are the same. Power Moons also come from the Moon while Power Stars are created by Lumas.

Amping users can also be said about literally practically ever other star item as well.

And, again, we can't prove the Party Cube had actual stars inside it, because the feat takes place inside it.
 
AKM sama said:
What is the timeframe of the latter? I mean, I get Gyro's point about Power Stars adding to the Power Moon count. But if there are feats that depict them operating at vastly different power output, they shouldn't be comparable.
Click to expand...
About 40 seconds

 
100 Moons for a feat that gets under the SoL and maybe not even relativistic VS A single Power Stsr fixing Starship Mario up immediately and enabling travel to another galaxy at speeds massively faster than light.

Also, they hail from different sources canonically. The Moon and then the Lumas for Power Stars.

Yean, I don't think they're comparable.
 
I'm not too sure why Bowser gets this amount of detail in his equipment and all the stuff he carries considering most other characters are in the same boat. I agree with this.

Power Moon, Power Stars, and Stars are all complete different, especially the latter two. It would be like classifying the Starman for looking similar despite their radically different functions.

I agree that the Dream Team feat has got to go as well.
 
This would thusly get rid of thr manipulating constellations feat for "Power Stars" as well. It would only be applicable to Stars as they are in Mario Party. Whether base characters can scale to them fron Mario Party is a different question altogether, but I believe there's already feats within Mario Party without the stars that are comparable if not higher than that feat anyways so I guess it's not that big of a deal.
 
  • Power Moons being comparable to Power Stars is misinformation that needs to be removed from AP justifications of Mario & Luigi
  • Dreamy Luigi’s constellation feat needs to be removed from the AP justification of Antasma
  • Mario, Luigi, Princess Peach, Yoshi, and Wario need their Standard and Optional Equipment separated
Every profile I linked needs to be unlocked
 
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