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7-C Bloodborne and Some Questions on Scaling

@Dark Which it doesnt, on the contrary it adds an explanation to a new otherwise unexplained occurance
 
I'm currently neutral on the subject, though as I've mentioned to Bambu, the comic would also give the Blood-Starved Beast acid manipulation.
 
I've asked DMUA (the only other active "knowledgeable member" aside from myself), ConsumingFire, and HeadlessKramerGeoff777 to speak here (the latter two being supporters of the verse).

The comic establishes time manipulation, which as far as I can tell has been a major point of discussion in versus threads. This is my biggest issue with it- it adds something never once even referenced in the game. If we just go off of Word of God stuff (FromSoft literally saying "this isn't canon to our game") then the Dark Souls comic is canon for gods' sake, and it's by the same guy. Even Weekly agrees the man went in blind to it. He has a history of distorting the story, and here we see that he's just grafted bits onto it.

Just saying. This comic shouldn't be held to be the same canonocity of the game.
 
Are you referring to poison?
 
The guy went in blind on the dark souls story, not the bloodborne story. He did as much research as possible to make it as accurate as possible specifically so the bloodborne comic wouldn't end up line the dark souls comic canon-wise
 
That isn't acid, that's poison. Those aren't the same thing.
 
The issue is, some of these characters are vastly above the rest because of a call beyond. I dont have an issue with the spell itself and tier, but those who scale and dont. Nobody should be above a great one simply because they know a call beyond and one great one never displayed the ability. It probably even a case of "too weak." But could be "doesn't care to use it, or don't know it." All great ones should automatically be above those call beyond users. It doesn't make sense for yurie and some others to be vastly stronger than everyone else because of the spell. I known fot a fact Maria> yurie and micolash.

Formless shouldn't have a tier, unknown should be. not at least 4-C

I don't even think there should be this in between thing with these tier 5 and 7. But I'm not Gunna argue that. it's hard to know who scales from what anyway.
 
Well. First off, we shouldn't automatically assume all Great Ones understand a Call Beyond, especially if they never show it. Yes, we could say "great one lol" as a justification, but that seems mighty weak compared to calc'able feats. Great Ones are never implied to be directly comparable to each other aside from being Great Ones.

Also, how do you know Maria is superior? Because she is a harder fight? Under revisions, she would scale to Kosm, since she and Gherman hunted him down. Kos sits at 5-B, though might scale to Rom (depending on whether or not the calc I need to get around to doing tells us anything).

Formless should be at least superior to the strongest characters of the verse. He is directly stated to transcend them anyways. Why wouldn't we use "At least 'blank'" if we know the very bottom of his power?
 
Why? Why would we automatically assume that?
 
Oedon is canonically superior to the other great ones to the point that he transcends transcends a physical form completely, just existing as a sentient force
 
I feel like most people get to the point of getting a call beyond before getting to Maria and Orphan, but scaling these games has always been weird so idk.
 
I'm wondering if we should have "at least [blank], likely [blank]" tiers since, while I agree with Bambu that we shouldn't just assume all Great Ones are above A Call Beyond, the idea that they are isn't all that far fetched either. That's just me, though.
 
You definitely can, Wokistan, but it is a question of whether or not you have to.

Basically, my proposal is that we scale by order encountered in the game unless the lore explicitly goes against that, in which case the lore would take priority. However, there is nothing in the game's lore that says all Great Ones are comparable to each other- far from it. Lesser Amygdalas are depicted as being significantly weaker, and we have beings like Oedon who are superior to others. So we know that there are tiers of strength, and thus they are not all comparable.
 
I'm okay with having "Possibly", but there's not much to go on for that reasoning aside from them being of the same classification (which would be like Henryk being possibly comparable to Gehrman, as both are Hunters- it doesn't make sense).

So yeah. "At least whatever, possibly whatever" is okay by me if we really can't come to an agreement otherwise.
 
We don't know the value of Rom's moon thing, might come to 5-A, might not. Right now it'd be 5-B for Kos' Nightmare.
 
All the Tiering changes make sense. No idea about the comic.
 
As a side note, with current tiering Bloodborne might make a cool match with Darkest Dungeon, just saying
 
hax fight it is then, as are all Tier 7+ fights
 
As a side note, I see Weekly revised that tiering stuff, didn't we conclude being a servant of Pthumeru Queen =/= Pthumerian, so Shadows and Merciless Watchers almost certainly not 4-C (which is hugely supported by the fact that Watchers are literal fodder, as are Shadows, and both can be fought as non-bosses lol).

No reason to have them in 4-C. Shadows should be in 7-C and Watchers in 8-C. That's my only major nitpick.
 
Mkay

Poesis also said he had a class 25 feat for the 7-Cs that I'm interested in

Also this reminds me that the key of dodging lightning while wielding the Kirkhammer yielded 8-B results...
 
Wouldn't that be calc stacking, applying movement speed from a lightning dodge feat to a KE feat? Dunno the feat but still.

And yeah, I'd be interested in more feats for Bloodborne. If it needs calc'd, always happy to do so.
 
No, it's just calcing KE.


They're taking the weight of the mallet, using sanic speed, and getting a result. Calc stacking would be calcing the blitzing of someone who lightning dodged and applying to KE.
 
@Bambu Its literally just the kinetic Energy of avoiding lightning while holding the kirkhammer, although technically we can calc the ke of the Hunter himself as dodge melee attacks are a thing

The only thing that could be stacking is we'd have to find the weight of the hammer itself to calc the ke of it
 
Ah if it is just using a baseline speed and applying it to the movement of Kirkhammer then it should be good.
 
Are we talking about this lol

Best way I can think of this being even a little bit applicable would be Xcano's suggestion on the matter, calcing swing arc and compare that to the speed of lightning/meteor, similar to how the current Terraria KE calc for King Slime does it. As it stands, flat out applying speeds from other feats to the Kirkhammer (a relatively slow weapon) isn't a good idea.
 
Yes :p

I mean if you want to the by all means go for it, maybe see if you can't get get a calc out of the Orphan of Kos' lightning too
 
I personally have no issue with the 8-C rating. However since it seems multiple people had issues with the calc, you may want to have it redone.
 
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