Is Sephiroth really Solar System level?

[A_DB_Fan_named_Jake]

As you can probably tell by my name, I'm a fan of Death Battle, and the latest one (Sephiroth vs Vergil) brought up something curious: Seph may NOT be SS level

Yeah, Sephiroth's Nova isn't quite what it seems, as in he doesn't actually CAUSE it. Seph actually pulls his victims into an alternate world where the supernova happens naturally, and DB's reasoning is very sound: if Sephiroth could summon comets capable of destroying solar systems, why even need the Black Materia and Meteor?

So, yeah, I really don't think Sephiroth is SS level since he really doesn't cause the supernova to happen

 

[WeeklyBattles]

He can hurt people who can survive supernova with his regular attacks

 

[The_Everlasting]

Lack of AoE and he still harms the party who tank Supernova anyway.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Surviving Supernova is almost certainly still a Tier 4 feat.

Though if they don't tank the it at the epicenter it's likely below megaFoe range.

If they do, then he may as well have caused it, anyway, as it doesn't affect scaling.

 

[LordAizenSama]

If you calced someone surviving a supernova the result would be drastically lowered because tbey can only get hit with a very small part of the supernova, due to being human sized.

If this feat is onscreen you could get some1 to calc it, or even a theoretical how much energy do u need to survive a supernova calc.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@LAS

This is true, though also why I used being at the epicenter as the one caveat (which I legitimately can't remember if they were).

 

[WeeklyBattles]

There is a calc already for them surviving this, the result landed them at the level they're at now

 

[LordAizenSama]

@LAS

This is true, though also why I used being at the epicenter as the one caveat (which I legitimately can't remember if they were).

Oh so you calced it yourself? Was this a onscreen feat or offscreen?

 

[TartaChocholate]

Well, my two cents on the issue, hope it helps:

There's also the japanese version of the Supernova where he creates an even larger explosion by himself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJu-30h_Sh0

The blast takes place in a different dimension, just like summons, true. However, dragging people may be different from dragging the whole planet and the Black Materia may be needed to summon the Meteor on the FFVII particular planet. And from what I get, Sephy needs to destroy the planet to use it as a vessel to find his "promised land" and get the lifestream to control it, but if he just obliterated it that would make his objectives pointless (the Supernovas do pretty much erase the planets they hit as seen in the vids).

EDIT: Here is the calculation:

https://web.archive.org/web/2016050...sy-vii-feat-supernova-japanese-version.31203/

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Aizen Its an on screen feat

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Aizen

Nah, I mean 3.1 megaFoe is the power of the entire Supernova, so 3.1 megaFoe durability would be granted if someone tanked the explosion at the origin point, as opposed to farther out. I forget where the party was located, at the time.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The Japanese Version of the Supernova feat. The one that's canon and matters, involves the sun literally blowing up exponentaneously without any meteor hitting it, and the explosion is ridiculously fast and the calc wields like, 1GigaFoe. And it is the doing of Sephiroth. All Limit Breaks and Special Moves which aren't summons are the result of the characters' doing.

Death Battle's argument isn't very good considering that Final Fantasy VII and Crisis Core are both full of feats above Planet level.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Matt

The JP Supernova is the 3.1 megaFoe one we use. It's Chaos' more recent version, iirc.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Figured I'd mention that I don't think I've ever seen us use surface area as an argument when dealing with characters surviving explosions or other attacks with large AoE.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Azzy

Yeah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ7c0X4KgsQ&feature=youtu.be&t=2m30s

There's no meteor there. Sephy causes the explosion by himself.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Assuming that the explosion is as large as the orbit of Earth, the gang would only be exposed to a tiny fraction of the explosion's power.

An explosion like that would have 2.83×10^23 meters in surface area, and even if you assumed that they take up 6 square meters in area (which they don't) that would end up with them anything an absolutely TINY fraction of the explosion.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

We don't even see where the party is in the JP version so it's impossible to quantify.

What matters is that Sephiroth has the raw power to do it and the other characters can contend with Sephiroth, even if noticeably weaker safe for Cloud.

 

[TartaChocholate]

However, that still doesn't disprove Sephy's AP, does it? He did create a SS destroying attack on his own.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Ninjad you.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Looks like the JP version is the feat's saving grace. The Meteor could be argued as chain reaction and they wouldn't tank the full blast of it expanding outward. That said if Seph just detonates the star outright that proves his power.

 

[TartaChocholate]

D'OH!

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Matt

The party should actually be at the epicenter of the JP version, assuming the blast is coming from Sephiroth and they're within like ten feet of him.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Looks like the JP version is the feat's saving grace. The Meteor could be argued as chain reaction and they wouldn't tank the full blast of it expanding outward. That said if Seph just detonates the star outright that proves his power.

Yeah. The Ultimania Guidebook, which is canon, straight up says that Sephiroth causes a Supernova, and it is based on the Japanese version.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Figured I'd mention that I don't think I've ever seen us use surface area as an argument when dealing with characters surviving explosions or other attacks with large AoE.

Even if this is true (it's not, Kkapois used it before) that is not a argument.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Also, the japanese Supernova is what was used here to determine Sephy's tier and scale the rest of the party, wasn't it?

 

[The_Everlasting]

@LAS

If it's never been a standard it kind of is.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@LAS

If it's never been a standard it kind of is.

Taken straight from our Explosion Yield Calculations page.

"Let's say an explosion occurs and a character endures the explosion. If that explosion doesn't occur close to the character the amount of energy that hits it will be significantly lower than the full energy of the explosion. To find the actual amount of the energy from the explosion that he/she tanks one first applies the inverse square law."

If characters are far away from an explosion they don't get hit by the brunt of it, even more so if the explosion is on an interplanetary scale.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Tarta

Yes. Both are canon, and surprisingly, the JP one has better purely destructive results.

@Ever

I think we do when the feat is in regards to tanking something.

 

[LordAizenSama]

@LAS

If it's never been a standard it kind of is.

Lol no, it doesnt even need to be a standard as it is mathematically the ONLY way you can calc surviving something like this.

 

[Antoniofer]

So let me check: Apparently Sephiroth only summoned (or teleported the party to) a supernova, so the rating of the verse only depend of how much the party was separated from the supernova. So, there's no way to known the distance between them? Watching the most recent DB, the "wall of fire" was already pretty big when it reaches the party.

 

[TartaChocholate]

So let me check: Apparently Sephiroth only summoned (or teleported the party to) a supernova, so the rating of the verse only depend of how much the party was separated from the supernova. So, there's no way to known the distance between them? Watching the most recent DB, the "wall of fire" was already pretty big when it reaches the party.

We've been saying: there's also the japanese version of the Supernova where he creates the explosion on his own.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Read the thread. That's not the feat we scale the characters from. We use the Japanese version, where there is no meteor nor expanding wall of fire where the characters are away from. And it actually wields like a thousand times more.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Antonio No, sephiroth caused the supernova under his own power

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, if that is the case, then Sephiroth woukd have a key for that attack. But, if everyone else was severy injured after when they weren't close of the epicenter it will still change the durability/ST of everyone else, assuming that they weren't pretty close to the epicenter.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Ant

Not really. Seph has the power to make and survive the explosion out of his own power. He uses this same power to fight them consistently. He his damaged by the opposing party, and they are damaged by him in return. It is completely fine scaling wise.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Also, the japanese version is ambigous where the explosion begins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ7c0X4KgsQ&feature=youtu.be&t=2m30s

nothing really indicates they are far away from him, the explosion could be right where Sephiroth is. In the american version it's likely the party is where Earth is located, which I guess is why the confusion begins.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Basically

Sephiroth presumably causes the JP Supernova directly through his own power, which is 3.1 megaFoe.

Cloud scales directly to Seph.

No one else in the party is as strong as Seph or Cloud, but are strong enough to fight Safer Sephiroth and not die.

Seph and Cloud = 3.1 megaFoe

Everyone else < 3.1 megaFoe, but not to a ridiculous degree.

This is why the characters are where they are.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It makes 0 sense for Sephiroth's strength to be orders of magnitude higher for one specific attack. The energy doesn't come from nowhere but himself.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Tarta

In the English version the feat would need to be redone. Meteor could have chain-reacted the Sun to explode and they are far away and still take damage. Japanese version is what we're using, since he doesn't need a meteor and the explosions are absolutely huge and occur close to the team.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

This is just making me think about how I can't wait until TFS gets to the Safer Sephiroth fight.