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Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo - Iron Man vs Captain America (Grace)

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PTSOXMONKEY99

PTSOXMONKEY99

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I think Iron Man wins. It can absorb Mjolnir's blasts to power him up, can fly, can analyze his fight pattern, durability can rival a Power Stone blast and nanotech will have Iron Man go on and on.

Though Steve definitely wins in the ass department.
 
I'm pretty sure certain people will tell you Stark loves America's ass 3000.

Also, I was going to do this, just hadn't thought of a story yet.

Now, I'm going to shoot this point down before anyone brings it up. The fight between Cap and Stark in Civil War can not be used to appropriately judge the difference in skill. Both fighters were holding back and Tony was more focused on Bucky. One part of that fight can be used however. FRIDAY tells Tony that he can't beat Steve hand to hand. Tony tells her to analyze his fight pattern and then beats him down. It stands to reason that Tony can do the same thing here. Plus, he has a wider variety of ranged options, while Steven is restricted to throwing his sheild and Mjolnir. Superior Regenerationn for his suit keeps him in the game longer and Tony is more used to his current skillset then Steve is (who only had Mjolnir for a single fight) Voting Tony Mid-High difficulty.
 
Cap knows that the suit can absorb lightning so he won't use it while Cap is able to go toe-to-toe with Thanos and damage his armor with a few hits. The same Thanos who beat down a stronger Mk than Tony is currently using. Thor giving Mjolnir a smack was also able to KO a stronger Tony so Cap has everything he needs to win. Voting Amercia's Ass.
 
This is Mjolnir Cap, the same guy who saw Tony literally charge up his attacks with Thor's lightning as part of a combo move. If Thor knew, it was because he was told, and Cap would be told as well, ignoring the fact that he saw it happen.
 
Cap should know that even in 2012 where he read the information about everyone, as far as Thor knew at the time Iron Man was a metal man.
 
Just my opinion, but while Ant-Man saying that was pretty hilarious, Cap contemplating his own ass seemed very OoC.
 
If Cap does not use lighting, then he gets outranged by IM's superior range weaponry.

Tony also is obviously more versatile when it comes to ablities, and the armor was durable enough wistand each one of the IG powers.

Also, Tony also got knowedge of Cap, he can take out the shield, beat him in range combat, and destroy him in close combat if he uses the same strategy as in CW.
 
Yeah, I gotta lean with Tony as well. While I bet Cap has some tricks up his sleeve and knows Tony inside-out, Tony is just way more versatile and by learning his moves, Tony can effectively limit Cap to what he can do over Ironman. Ironman is a hard fight
 
Tony isn't outranging when Cap has Mjolnir and the shield. Range also fails since the shield will stop everything since it took multiple two handed hit from Thanos wielding a force multiplier. Tony's only option is to close but that won't end well since Cap is gonna be throttling him with combos like Endgame.
 
That was Storm breaker, which is stronger than Mjolnir and amplifies Thor's lighting to a higher degree.
 
Cap doesn't abuse range at all, only throwing the shield and hammers a few meters. Which is laughable compared to Tony greater range arsenal.

Tony can take out the shield, blast it away from Cap magnetic attraction, or just steal it, which left only throwing a hammer that goes foward and back.

His combos gets countered by Tony's nanite weapon combos + Info Analysis + Armor Regenerationn + Nanite shielding + Flight manuerbility + Nanite Traps/Snare.
 
I'm fairly certain it wasn't storm breaker that knocked Tony on his ass and it wasn't lightning. He threw Mjolnir Thanos grabbed stark and used him as a shield and that knocked Tony out, but without clips I can't be wholly certain.

That said, ur underselling cap a lot, with the hammer he's more durable and objectively stronger than Tony. Not to mention that he was pretty damned clever with both weapons- ricocheting one off the other to take his opponent by surprise. Even if he could take the shield from Cap it changes little. Cap with the hammer should have flight so closing the distance isn't too much of an issue, the hammer also doesn't just move in a straight line, through the Thor trilogy we see it is very much capable of making turns mid flight on its own once again cancelling out Starks range.

Cap should take this via being stronger, tougher and the better combatant

Edit: found a clip of the fight with Thanos, it was Mjolnir that knocked Tony flat out. But in fairness Thor used Storm breaker as a bat on Mj├©lnir, though it still doesn't change the fact that Cap and Thor both performed better against Thanos in a physical confrontation placing both above Stark
 
Cap never used flight nor the techniques that Thor used in his trilogy, Mjolnir is a weapon that only wield for a while, and didnt perform any of the previous abilities, is not part is combat style.

Taking the shield means a lot because it lefts Steve vulnerable to direct and collateral physical (Like AoE).

Also ignoring that Tony being more versatile, absorb energy reduce damage, shields reduce damage, regen reduce damage, able to stun, blind and restrain opponents, learn attacks and counter attack, barrage of homing attacks.

And no, Thor was beated twice by base Thanos, one as awekened Thor, the other as beer belly who is weaker, Cap did a better job but was still defeated by base.

Tony at the very least fought 4 stones Thanos and wistood several of the gauntles abilities. He was yellow card in Endgame cus's stupid friendly fire by Thor.
 
Versatility and rege Tony being versatile means little to someone who is just straight-up a better tactician and a more experienced combatant. Cap won't sit idly by when he knows energy attacks will be useless and range will be on Tony's side he will attempt to close the gap and once he does it's over for Tony. Not to mention the suits regen isn't infinite, infinity war showed us that after sufficient damage the amour will not be able to repair itself. And endgame shows that it doesn't completely protect Tony while he's in it.

Flight and Mj├©lnir being self driving The inscription on Mj├©lnir makes it clear that whoever picks up the hammer has all of Thor's powers, his powers also include flight suggesting Cap for some reason only inherits a portion of Thor's abilities is ludicrous. Or suggesting he won't attempt to use the power when necessary is just as ludicrous. Mjolnir being self driving is also the same, the hammer hasn't changed the only thing that has changed is who is wielding it, all of its previous abilities should obviously still hold.

Tony fighting Thanos Tony fighting 4 stone Thanos clearly cant be an argument when u consider that a single blow from thicc Thor knocked him out. Also keep in mind that Thanos' mindset during IW and Endgame are completely different. IW he never attacked anyone with explicit intention to murder them, even after he wrecked Tony's shit he still came across as though he was only being a reluctant saviour "I call that mercy", "I hope they remember you". In Endgame he's done with everyone's nonsense, he takes the first opportunity he has to kill whoever crosses him ie he was bloodlusted. Using the IW fight to argue that Tony is above Cap and Thor is a no-no.
 
I'll be honest, I thought this was Endgame Tony. Don't know why you'd use a weaker version for this but whatever. Switching Cap.
 
Because Mark 80 has the infinity gauntlet, an addition was not agreed yet.

Talking about the armor, a superior armor getting rekt by base Thanos and Fat Thor complety contradicts everything that Tony performed in IW. That is called inconsistency.

Said that Cap is more experienced and better is tactician is as false as Vnzl's good economy. Both have been for the same amount of time (With Tony being a bit more used than Steve) and have relied to each other to defeat their enemies. Caps knows Tony limitations? So does Tony knows his.

I didn't say it does not have the abilities, I said is not part of his fighting style start to fly around and shot lighting and Mjolnir the same way as Thor.

Thanos specifically wanted to kill Stark, to the point that he destroyed a moon to wipe him from the planet. Ignore that is denying an important plotline that been growing for 6 years.
 
Okay, I agree on all of the above minus the tactician bit. There's a reasin why Tony tells Cap to call the shots in The Avengers.
 
Except that Tony's solo fight was against an uber casual Thanos who, when actually trying a small bit, crushed the the Mk 50 like a soda can in a compactor. Steve was fighting a serious Thanos, smacking him around, trading full power blows and was breaking his armor while Tony could barely split a few layers of skin.

On the topic of flight, why would he fly when is trying to fight Thanos? Steve already saw just how throwing ranged attacks ends when Thanos slapped away Thor and Tony's combo.

Thanos didnt specifically want to kill Tony either. He cracked of parts of the moon and just threw them at everyone. This was also right after they almost succeeded in getting the IG so divide and conquer is a decent choice of action.
 
>Uber casual Thanos.

Outright ignoring what I previously said. Read the comment again.

>Destroyed Mark 50.

After several attacks with the IG, including 2 blast of the power stone, yet Tony kept fighting, Carol who is supposed to be stronger than Thor, was K.O for just 1.

>Steve destroyed the Thanos' armor.

He didn't, he only took the helmet, the armor was pretty fine actually (iicr). Steve was all along pushing and taking Thanos off his feet, something that Carol, Thor, Tony and Hulk managed; Simply put, is not impressive.

>Fly.

That, or just isn't simply part of his fighting style, he also lacks actual knowledge of flying, much less an actual Areal Fight. Tony have been doing that job since he put the armor.

Steve atempting to challenge Tony on that field would be hilarous atemp of self-humilation.

On the last point, read my previous reply again.
 
Newendigo said:
Said that Cap is more experienced and better is tactician is as false as Vnzl's good economy. Both have been for the same amount of time (With Tony being a bit more used than Steve) and have relied to each other to defeat their enemies. Caps knows Tony limitations? So does Tony knows his.
Click to expand...
Cap being a better tactician and superior combatant is false? Oh boy. Cap was literally fighting since b4 Tony was born, testing his mettle in actual war zones and leading his troops then he came to the present and then became a military leader in shield and then began leading superhumans. Not to mention, Tony outright defers to Cap during combat situations, Tony's position as a combat tactician can even be called into question, can u name 1 situation where Tony has on his own come up with a solid strategy for handling an enemy? Even on Titan when they clashed with Thanos it was Star lords plan that gave them the initial victory not Tony's. Tony is a genius and is capable of being pretty adaptable but as a tactician in comparison to Cap? It isn't really a contest.

Thanos throwing the moon- specifically the meteorite that hits Tony- is calced at high 6c if I'm not mistaken somehow less than Thanos' standard ap. And once again he didn't do that because he was specifically outraged at Stark, hell he doesn't even acknowledge Tony's existence till after the fact and that's when he begins with his whole messiahic nonsense.

Whilst ur not wrong that flying isn't part of Caps standard repertoire, neither is dual wielding, using a hammer as a weapon or throwing lightning but he does all these things efficiently through endgame. Even if for arguments sake that Cap won't fly at all Mjolnir can reach MHS movement speeds, more than sufficient to blitz Stark to hel and back all Cap would have to do would be aim and release.

Also Tony knowing Caps limits are pretty much irrelevant here since this is Cap with a whole new power set and power level.
 
>Was fighting while b4 Tony was born.

Flawed age argument, you know that after becoming a supersoldier, it didn't pass to long before turning into a ice cream for most his existence? The time he spent in the war him rolling fodder with crap tech that had not been perfectioned.

Tony have been fighting like Iron Man for 4 years before turning into an Avenger. And had fought machines way more threat full than soldiers fodder with plasmacasters.

>Can u name 1 situation where Tony on his own come up with a strategy handle an enemy?

Bad grammar, serios downplay of the character's capabilities, and straightfoward showing ignorance of the MCU...

  • His fight against Iron Monger.
  • His fight against Whiplash and the Hammerdroids.
  • The Thor, hellicarrier and New York battles in Avengers.
  • All the fights in Iron Man 3.
  • Hydra base, Stark Tower, Hulk and Sokovia Confrontations in AoU
  • Airport and Hydra facility in CW.
  • That part in Homecoming when the ship was ******.
  • New York and Titan fight in IW.
  • ENDGAME final.
Literally in all interactions Tony doesn't rely on punching dudes, he use quick analysis and logic to learn and adapt on different situations by taking advantage of the enviroment, items, foes & pals abilities, and of course his own power.

>Moon.

How much it yield is unimportant, the point is Thanos would couse such a huge amount of collateral damage in both celestial bodies to get rid of a single person, futher proves my other point

>Didn't acknowledged his existence.

Again, complety denying a plotline that have been affecting Tony's character development since Avengers 1 for the whole sake of making an argument valid, is atrocitus. But seeing how you question Iron Man intelligence on that level, could be pure lack of actual knowledge of the whole character.

>Hammer, Lighting & Flight.

I don't have argument for this, I can only come up with a very "off-topic" conclusion; The whole fight doesn't make any sense, Thor's power is only his, the hammer only used to channel his power, Cap being capable of casting it contradicts what was established in Ragnarok and retconnected in Thor 1. That includes having unexplainly mastered the power in a single go.

The whole basis of the fight is a Cap fighting a High 6-B dude with a 7-A weapon that was not stated to be upgraded. I will look for the part of the revisions when this is agreed.

>Blitz.

Would not Tony just simply aim dodge him while he is spinning the hammer? Would not Cap be left **** minded from moving at speeds that can't react at all after being pull by the hammer? And if he misses, can't Tony just nuke him to oblivion while he is **** minded from the speed and crash?

>Power Set and Power level.

Tony already fought Thor and Steve once, and has years knowledge abou both. The combining their power is not hard though, seeing that both are cut and dry in term of power mostly rely CQC and experience.
 
Post-Data: It took me 2 hours to type that comment with a half broken phone, and I only have 4 to 6 hours of electricity due to reasonings in Venezuela.

Better be more worthy than a danm, nojoda.
 
>Ice cream and super soldier U must also realise that during the period between becoming a super soldier and being an ice cube he'd been actively fighting in a war for at least months. A war where he took an active leadership role. And there is a significant difference in engaging in a large scale war where he is in charge of directing and coordinating troops and Tony engaging in all of two notable conflicts where he took on a big gray dude in the first and a small platoon of robots in the second. The power levels involved are irrelevant what is relevant here is the sheer scale.

>My grammar and apparent ignorance. Well I imagine my grammar couldn't be so bad that my point didn't come across and that isn't an actual argument.

  • The Iron monger fight was a straight up slug fest that ended by Tony literally asking Pepper to very nearly blow himself and Monger up. That isn't indicative of tactical acumen it's more indicative of adaptability, recklessness and sheer desperation
  • Whiplash and the drones- almost exactly the same thing as above; a slugfest. The bare bones plan of "The big gun should go up there" wasn't even employed, and whiplash was defeated much like with Monger by having Rhodey do something with him that just caused an explosion. Again not indicative of tactical acumen.
  • Thor, helicarrier and New York fights- again vanilla slug feats aren't indicative of tactical skill, they are indicative of combat skill so the Thor fight is irrelevant. He didn't even fight on the helicarrier, he did what he's best at- being an engineer so again irrelevant and the New York fight he deferred command to Cap who was the one that organised the team
  • The fights in Iron man three-except for the final one where it just became a massive robot on super soldier slug fest- I'll admit showed he has some tactical acumen.
  • The Hydra facility fight was almost wholly a boxing match between him and the soldiers, the only 2 instances of tactical thinking were when he attempted to restrain Cap because he wanted Bucky and closing down hatch Bucky attempted to escape through at the top. Clever but not particularly breathtaking strats.
  • Literally everything else is just some variation of what I have already mentioned, either a slug out or not even a fight at all. What does fixing a boat have anything to do with tactical combat?
>Moon, first things first "couse" isn't a word, I realise it has nothing to do with the argument but if u can call out my bad grammar it is only fair I call out ur poor spelling isn't it? And secondly the moon wasn't shattered to get rid of only iron man, it was a retaliatory move against literally the entire team assembled against Thanos.

>Denial. Acknowledging someone's existence and being aware of their existence are 2 entirely different things, Thanos apparently knew who Stark was for quite awhile but he never actually cared enough to get up and engage him till Stark came to him. And even then he wasn't even the first person Thanos addressed. A plot line for Tony's development does not automatically mean it's a plot line for Thanos' development or his motivation. Thanos was aware of Tony yes that was never in doubt, he respected Tony was also never in doubt, what is in doubt is that Thanos would for some reason prioritise Tony above everyone else there.

>Aim dodging. Pretty hard to do when the weapon he's gonna try and dodge can literally course correct of its own volition.

>Power set and level. Knowing how each of them fights individually doesn't indicate he would know how Cap would fight after wielding the hammer, Cap literally ricochets one weapon off the other; that's far out of his standard practice and techniques. In other words he's an unknown.
 
Cap takes this, easy. Even with Tony's best suit, Cap did much better against Thanos in the final battle. Also, Cap doesn't need to use lightning for range; just throwing his hammer or doing any number of sick combos with the hammer and shield will inflict devastating damage on Tony. Considering all it took to knock Stark out was one blow from Mijolnir before, it stands to reason two or three hits from Cap's hammer combos should cleanly take him out, no matter which suit Tony is using.
 
Didn't Tony tank a direct hit from mijolnir in the 2012 avengers film? I remember Tony getting up from that fairy well, considering that Thor threw it [[1]]
 
Finalfinisher said:
Didn't Tony tank a direct hit from mijolnir in the 2012 avengers film? I remember Tony getting up from that fairy well, considering that Thor threw it [[1]]
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say he tanked it very well. He was knocked flat onto the ground, dazed and unable to get up for several seconds. And as you know, several seconds can be crucial in a fight. It would certainly give Cap time to close the distance and start wailing on him with his combos.
 
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