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4-D Soul Hax

For the same reason we don't assume we have 2-dimensional souls, we wouldn't assume that a higher dimensional being would for some reason have a soul that's qualititatively inferior.
 
2D, 3D, 4D, none of it matters. How do souls have dimension? It's the amount of Souls that's impressive, not the amount of dimensions an immaterial soul would have.
 
Obi2cool4kenobi said:
2D, 3D, 4D, none of it matters. How do souls have dimension? It's the amount of Souls that's impressive, not the amount of dimensions an immaterial soul would have.
Click to expand...
Qualitative superiority? Like, unless your just talking about a character existing in 4 spatial dimensions but not being qualitatively superior to other 3-dimensional beings, in which case yeah, dimensionality doesn't matter.

You're not soulhaxxing a Low 1-C being without feats at that level though.
 
Not being able to soul hax a low 1-C being is just a matter of not having enough range to affect infinite sized beings

That does not mean dimensionality or whatever applies to souls
 
Darksmash said:
Not being able to soul hax a low 1-C being is just a matter of not having enough range to affect infinite sized beings

That does not mean dimensionality or whatever applies to souls
Click to expand...
Well, yeah, that's more or less what I meant.

Qualitative difference applies to souls (and minds and anything else), whether represented through dimensionality, layers or reality-fiction differences. If a being views a multiverse as fiction then the soul-hax from those beings would never affect it. The same as a being that's infinitely large across 5 spatiotemporal dimensions.
 
The idea that souls somehow don't have dimensionality is absurd for the reasons Planck just went over. A being you view as fictional can't soul hax you. Not without demonstrated feats on that level, anyways.

4-D soul hax is soul hax that can affect 4-D beings. That's it.
 
Soul manip don't scale with AP, it bypasses traditional defences. So the argument of a tier 1 vs a tier 10 doesn't hold up. Besides going to extremes with a theoretical where there are a million things that would play a factor far before soul manip would, why don't we try to find a general ground here?

I wasn't really making this thread with any specific verse in mind, but the catalyst for this thread is DMC recently got upgraded, and Dante now has 4-D soul hax due to scaling from Demonic Energy. It didn't make sense to me because why would Demonic Energy yield 4-D Soul Hax anyway. It was all because The World Energy is capable to warp the space-time in a Universal scale. Therefore, the reasoning behind 4-D soul hax was:

"Unless you can prove that they are not affecting the entire Universe and only parts of him, than the Demon World Energy is considered to be affecting everything on a Universal scale, and thus, making all demons powers and resitance 4D by nature"

So does resisting soul hax from a 4D being/structure net some higher dimensional soul resistence by default? Cause it seems nonsensical to me.

Would it not be a case-by-case basis on the verse itself to prove souls have dimension/higher dimensions?
 
For the same reason any hax isn't just automatically assumed to work on beings of a higher order or plane of existence. Assuming so would be a textbook No Limits Fallacy. Like, it's that simple. Yes, it negates standard defenses but not completely and utterly regardless of scale.
 
Siiiigh.

My dude, that logic can be applied to literally every hax ever. All hax bypasses physical stats in some way. That doesn't change the fact lower dimensional beings can't affect higher dimensional beings without feats proving they can. A fictional character can't soulhax you.
 
As I said, a Soul wouldn't necessarily be superior coming from a 4-D being as it would from a 3-D. They are immaterial and don't scale with AP, they scale with the Quantity of Souls. Applying dimensionality to souls by default for the sake of the tiering system when it's nonsensical isn't right.

As @Darksmash Said, at that point it's just a matter of not having enough range to affect infinite sized beings

That does not mean dimensionality applies to souls.
 
You're now telling me a 10-B character that can affect 10 souls can soul-hax a 1-B or even 1-A with range? This is ridiculous. They occupy a lower state of existence, so they're not affecting them.
 
What the is the Quantity of Souls supposed to be?

Or, get this, you can't get soul haxed by a fictional character. That's a 3-D person is to a 4-D person. They're a squiggle on a wall. Sans Undertale isn't going to Soul Hax me because he literally doesn't exist from my perspective.
 
Yet my points haven't been debunked? We are just taking extremely asinine comparisons, like a tier 1 character vs a tier 10-B, or fiction vs nonfiction. This reminds of omnipotence can't exist in fiction. Let's ignore these blatant outliers which @Darksmash has already given a reason for why in this certain situation.

What the is the Quantity of Souls supposed to be?
Click to expand...
Any amount of souls up to an infinite number.

All I'm asking is why are we assuming souls have dimensionality without feats of being such? Souls by themselves don't have dimension by default.
When referring to feats, An example i've been told is World of Darkness Treats souls as Transdimensional and the Ultimate Ascension.

How do we explain souls having dimension besides using extreme measures of "It doesn't make sense, but a tier 10-B character beating a tier 1 character and fiction vs non-fiction doesn't either." Can't we make a general rule with exceptions if range isn't good enough of an answer. I feel like the entire conversation is being ignored in an attempt of tiering system>Logic.

If the standard is "We understand applying dimension to souls by default isn't logical, but because of extreme instances of lower tier characters being capable of beating higher tier characters, we assume so." Then I'll just shut my trap and assume my position. I would definitely prefer to ignore tier 2/1 and consider them exceptions to the rule and apply logic to it otherwise, but what do I know :v
 
If someone have 4-D existance, by logic, he has a 4-D soul, unless its stated otherwise, so, 3-D soul hax like Bleach characters or Sans won't work on 4-D
 
Sorta off-topic, but can this be applied to other types of higher-dimensional hax? Such as mind manip and what-not.
 
They're at the same level of existence, which is the main point. I feel like people forget that dimensions as we use them now are only window dressing to explain a character's level of being. If it's higher then the lower level being won't affect them. Let's assume for a moment that souls were undimensioned; they'd still be at a higher level of existence than what a character has been shown to affect and thus, not be harmed by their soul-hax.
 
If I need to make a specific example, let me.

Two 3-D characters are fighting. 1 Character scales to 100 Trillion Souls, the other scales from a power source that is from a 4-D structure, and this 4-D structure has soul manipulation. The 4-D structure never even shows feats of manipulating another 4-D characters soul for the sake of the argument.

Are we supposed to believe that this guys resistance from a 4-D structure that doesn't even have feats of soul manip on the same level as the structure itself, is by default >>>100 Trillion Souls?
 
Obi2cool4kenobi said:
If I need to make a specific example, let me.

Two 3-D characters are fighting. 1 Character scales to 100 Trillion Souls, the other scales from a power source that is from a 4-D structure, and this 4-D structure has soul manipulation. The 4-D structure never even shows feats of manipulating another 4-D characters soul for the sake of the argument.

Are we supposed to believe that this guys resistance from a 4-D structure that doesn't even have feats of soul manip on the same level as the structure itself, is by default >>>100 Trillion Souls?
Click to expand...
Yes, its like asking if a 4-D AP by default is superior than 3-D AP
 
Let's assume for a moment that souls were undimensioned; they'd still be at a higher level of existence than what a character has been shown to affect and thus, not be harmed by their soul-hax.
Click to expand...
Which is 100% acceptable, but I don't believe souls should have dimensionality unless actually specified.
 
Bernkastelll said:
Yes, its like asking if a 4-D AP by default is superior than 3-D AP
Click to expand...
Everyone resists the soul manip from the energy source, the tier 3 character, fodder humans, the only feat of soul manip it has is against normal animals. Because the energy source is derived from a 4-D structure with no 4-D feats of soul manip, that resistance is>>> 100 Trillion souls?
 
Obi2cool4kenobi said:
Everyone resists the soul manip from the energy source, the tier 3 character, fodder humans, the only feat of soul manip it has is against normal animals. Because the energy source is derived from a 4-D structure with no 4-D feats of soul manip, that resistance is>>> 100 Trillion souls?
Click to expand...
Yes. Because all of those souls are 3-D. 4-D exists above 3-D.
 
Obi2cool4kenobi said:
Everyone resists the soul manip from the energy source, the tier 3 character, fodder humans, the only feat of soul manip it has is against normal animals. Because the energy source is derived from a 4-D structure with no 4-D feats of soul manip, that resistance is>>> 100 Trillion souls?
Click to expand...
Yes, because the 4-D character by default is infinitely superior to the 3-D (unless its stated otherwise), since, the 4-D characters view 3-D as fiction, in the same way that we, Real Life people (3-D) see characters like Rimuru or Itachi as 2-D, Itachi (lower dimensional than us) can mindhax IRL people ? Rimuru (lower dimensional than us) can soul hax IRL people?
 
Most of the time, souls are just non-corporeal projections with defined sizes and shapes (i.e. dimensions) so I have no idea where this "undimensioned" stuff even comes from.
 
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