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4-B Kaguya (this is useless and I'm wasting my time 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥)

DavidTPPM

DavidTPPM

2,415
1,027
IT Kaguya is currently 5-B, 4-C over time with ETSO by scaling to recreating the dimension. I went a step back and calculated the total energy contained in a TSO of that size.

The new results are 4-B overtime, high 5-A combat applicable.

Basically IT Kaguyas AP goes from this
Planet level (Kaguya would be putting at least this much energy per second into her Expansive Truth Seeker Orb[Note 2]), up to Star level overtime with Expansive Truth Seeker Orb (Kaguya's Expansive Truth Seeker Orb was going to recreate a dimension with a star in it over a period of time)
Click to expand...
To this
Brown Dwarf level (Kaguya would be putting at least this much energy per second into her Expansive Truth Seeker Orb), up to Solar System level overtime with Expansive Truth Seeker Orb (Kaguya's Expansive Truth Seeker Orb was going to destroy a dimension with a star in it over a period of time)
Click to expand...
Or something like that, idk. Basically just swapping the current calc for the new calc 🤷‍♂️

Votes:
Agree (the correct option): LordGriffin1000,

Disagree (the cringe option): Damage3245 (isn't convinced and doesn't have time to participate in the thread so idk),

Neutral (achieves nothing, just like this thread):
 
Last edited:
Nah you see, it's wrong because Naruto can't get past Planet Level

But fr, I don't see anything wrong if the calc is accepted.
 
Dont TSO have like EE? Why should the energy of them destroying a forest be considered if they dura neg?
 
It seems to be a bit of an assumption to me that the user of the Truth-Seeking Orbs is incapable of making them bigger without putting more chakra / energy into them?

We've seen how the users of the Truth-Seeking Orbs can reshape them and freely increase their volume like when Obito made massive constructs out of his.

So I'm not fully convinced that Kaguya creating a Solar System sized Truth-Seeking Orb like this means that she has to be outputting Brown Dwarf levels of AP with every second that it is growing.
 
Damage3245 said:
It seems to be a bit of an assumption to me that the user of the Truth-Seeking Orbs is incapable of making them bigger without putting more chakra / energy into them?

We've seen how the users of the Truth-Seeking Orbs can reshape them and freely increase their volume like when Obito made massive constructs out of his.

So I'm not fully convinced that Kaguya creating a Solar System sized Truth-Seeking Orb like this means that she has to be outputting Brown Dwarf levels of AP with every second that it is growing.
Click to expand...
I never found this particularly convincing either tbh.

Also, last I checked, we were only calculating the dimension being recreated because the destruction bit was EE, right? Or did the standards on that change while I was away.
 
Damage3245 said:
It seems to be a bit of an assumption to me that the user of the Truth-Seeking Orbs is incapable of making them bigger without putting more chakra / energy into them?
Click to expand...
TSOs can expand, but there's no evidence Kaguya does so, or even that she can with the ETSO.
Although honestly that would probably yield higher results via KE.
Damage3245 said:
So I'm not fully convinced that Kaguya creating a Solar System sized Truth-Seeking Orb like this means that she has to be outputting Brown Dwarf levels of AP with every second that it is growing.
Click to expand...
The issue is that the only way to say she's doing something else is to create a completely baseless assumption like Kaguya moving the TSO around for whatever reason. Which would yield completely different (likely higher ngl) results.
But we can't calc those because like I said, it's a completely baseless assumption.
 
vsbattles.fandom.com

Existence Erasure

Existence Erasure is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization. Rather than just reducing something to its constituent parts, this ability leaves absolutely nothing behind. Powerful...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
I never found this particularly convincing either tbh.

Also, last I checked, we were only calculating the dimension being recreated because the destruction bit was EE, right? Or did the standards on that change while I was away.
Click to expand...
The calc doesn't focus on the destruction of the dimension but on the size of the TSO.
Basically the databook tells us small TSO = X value.
So the calc is just small value*big TSO = energy inside of big TSO
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
I never found this particularly convincing either tbh.

Also, last I checked, we were only calculating the dimension being recreated because the destruction bit was EE, right? Or did the standards on that change while I was away.
Click to expand...
Just asking can't she get 4b with EE?
 
@DavidTPPM

I think your argument is quite convincing. However, I have the feat rated much higher than this. I’m fine with agreeing for now until I finalize my arguments. Don’t forget to include the value from creation as well, since the ETSO was going to both destroy and create.
Energy from destroying a dimension with a star
Plus Energy from creating a dimension with a star

Basically it make no sense to say Kaguya will take 15 years to destroy her dimensions and 15 years to create them again. Thus, we will be assuming that she is doing both in the span of 15 years.

Note - what is important here is the energy required to perform both feat in the span of 15 years.
 
Also
Samlex1234 said:
@DavidTPPM

I think your argument is quite convincing. However, I have the feat rated much higher than this. I’m fine with agreeing for now until I finalize my arguments. Don’t forget to include the value from creation as well, since the ETSO was going to both destroy and create.
Energy from destroying a dimension with a star
Plus Energy from creating a dimension with a star

Basically it make no sense to say Kaguya will take 15 years to destroy her dimensions and 15 years to create them again. Thus, we will be assuming that she is doing both in the span of 15 years.

Note - what is important here is the energy required to perform both feat in the span of 15 years.
Click to expand...
Also, is Kaguya EE resistant? As she would have to resist her own attack.
 
DavidTPPM said:
The calc doesn't focus on the destruction of the dimension but on the size of the TSO.
Basically the databook tells us small TSO = X value.
So the calc is just small value*big TSO = energy inside of big TSO
Click to expand...
Just use 149 million km as radius
 
Damage3245 said:
It seems to be a bit of an assumption to me that the user of the Truth-Seeking Orbs is incapable of making them bigger without putting more chakra / energy into them?

We've seen how the users of the Truth-Seeking Orbs can reshape them and freely increase their volume like when Obito made massive constructs out of his.
Click to expand...
Probably they do it via putting energy too. It would be nonsense if they were capable of increasing volume as they want without putting any energy.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
I never found this particularly convincing either tbh.

Also, last I checked, we were only calculating the dimension being recreated because the destruction bit was EE, right? Or did the standards on that change while I was away.
Click to expand...
Doesn't the EE page say that it's superior to other forms of destruction meaning that it does have AP?

"Existence Erasure is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization."

And this part seems to pertain to TSOs

"Note, also, that Existence Erasure can be listed as conventional Attack Potency, as opposed to simple Environmental Destruction, if the character has demonstrated the ability to employ it in a fashion resembling regular attacks (E.g. Focusing it though energy beams and the like)."
 
HelloThere1089 said:
I have a question. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the planet to star distance should be the radius right? Why is half of it the radius in your calc? The yield should be 8x above what it is.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't be the astronomical unit distance unless it was the size of the solar system. The actual calc using this method would be: ETSB Volume / TSB Volume * TSB Energy.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
It shouldn't be the astronomical unit distance unless it was the size of the solar system.
Click to expand...
Isn't that the standard assumption tho for a planet to star distance? If not, then what is the standard assumption?
Qawsedf234 said:
The actual calc using this method would be: ETSB Volume / TSB Volume * TSB Energy.
Click to expand...
Yeah. The ETSB volume would depend on the size of the dimension. Which is what I am asking about.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Isn't that the standard assumption tho for a planet to star distance?
Click to expand...
For destroying both, yes. But that wouldn't give you size of the ETSB, but the explosive radius.

HelloThere1089 said:
The ETSB volume would depend on the size of the dimension.
Click to expand...
If the assumption is that the ETSB was going to explode before she was sealed, then it's maximum size was what we saw in the manga.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
For destroying both, yes. But that wouldn't give you size of the ETSB, but the explosive radius.


If the assumption is that the ETSB was going to explode before she was sealed, then it's maximum size was what we saw in the manga.
Click to expand...
The size of the ETSB is what destroys the dimension. It's not gonna explode. The calc is saying a small TSO has a forest destroying energy, so ETSO would scale according to it's volume. I am neutral on this logic tho so no comment. I am saying if we grant this, why does the calc assume that 1AU is the diameter, instead of the radius like it should be. I am not arguing about the assumptions about the mechanics of the jutsu.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Doesn't the EE page say that it's superior to other forms of destruction meaning that it does have AP?

"Existence Erasure is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization."
Click to expand...
It's superior in the sense that it completely erases a physical object completely, leaving absolutely no trace. While the other forms of destruction don't destroy the object completely, but still leave some component of it behind, ie. vapor, molecules, atoms, etc. But as far as using EE in calcs, it doesn't have a destruction value we can use like vaporization does for example. It's purely hax in that sense. At least that's how I personally understand it, maybe I'm wrong. 🤷‍♂️
MinatoSparkle said:
And this part seems to pertain to TSOs

"Note, also, that Existence Erasure can be listed as conventional Attack Potency, as opposed to simple Environmental Destruction, if the character has demonstrated the ability to employ it in a fashion resembling regular attacks (E.g. Focusing it though energy beams and the like)."
Click to expand...
Maybe the TSO, but definitely not the ETSO.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
The size of the ETSB is what destroys the dimension. It's not gonna explode. The calc is saying a small TSO has a forest destroying energy, so ETSO would scale according to it's volume. I am neutral on this logic tho so no comment. I am saying if we grant this, why does the calc assume that 1AU is the diameter, instead of the radius like it should be. I am not arguing about the assumptions about the mechanics of the jutsu.
Click to expand...
I asked him when he created blog, he said that he used most lowballed variant, but according to this ETSO wouldn't destroy earth tho(it wouldn't even expand from its center)
 
Floxy178 said:
I asked him when he created blog, he said that he used most lowballed variant, but according to this ETSO wouldn't destroy earth tho(it wouldn't even expand from its center)
Click to expand...
What do you mean? I am so confused rn. Does the ETSO destroy the dimension by sheer size or no? If yes, then the absolute lowball size of the dimension needs to have 1 AU as the radius.
 
Ah, my bad then. Anyways as long as the math is fixed or someone gives an alternate explanation for why the yield is correct, I will see myself out.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
What says that? Why wouldn't it just explode and recreate everything?
Click to expand...
Idk. The logic is that the manga states the ETSO would expand and destroy the dimension they are in. That's why it's called the Expansive Truth Seeker Orb. If it were just an explosion then we wouldn't have this overtime bs anyway and the ETSO would have only one tier 4 key.

Anyways that's not why I commented here. I don't care to argue for or against the mechanics of the jutsu like I stated in my previous reply. I only wanted to correct the math under the presupposition that the mechanics are agreed upon. If y'all decide otherwise then I have no issue.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
The logic is that the manga states the ETSO would expand and destroy the dimension they are in.
Click to expand...
I'm not seeing that
Hidden inside those orbs is the power to easily obliterate an entire forest
Click to expand...
Comprised of all five elements and yin-yang, it had the power to obliterate the world and return it to nothing.
Click to expand...
The Databook is talking about the power contained inside the orb, that when it explodes, can destroy the dimension.

It would just be an Earth based spherical explosion afaik. Which is like 4-B based off the Super Perfect Cell calc.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
It's superior in the sense that it completely erases a physical object completely, leaving absolutely no trace. While the other forms of destruction don't destroy the object completely, but still leave some component of it behind, ie. vapor, molecules, atoms, etc. But as far as using EE in calcs, it doesn't have a destruction value we can use like vaporization does for example. It's purely hax in that sense. At least that's how I personally understand it, maybe I'm wrong. 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
Calling it superior in "destruction" while not being lowballed as equal to other forms of destruction is weird but idk the standards
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Maybe the TSO, but definitely not the ETSO.
Click to expand...
I mean it's a different application, but it is the same material as TSOs which qualifies for traditional AP. I suppose it doesn't make too big a difference either way since Kaguya uses it in an environmental destruction like way.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I'm not seeing that


The Databook is talking about the power contained inside the orb, that when it explodes, can destroy the dimension.

It would just be an Earth based spherical explosion afaik. Which is like 4-B based off the Super Perfect Cell calc.
Click to expand...
ETSO doesn't explode, it just has energy inside of it.
 
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