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Yu-Gi-Oh Ratings?

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SomebodyData

El SiD
VS Battles
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Intro: So LordAizenSama and I decided to make this thread due to Yugioh being misinterpreted in some threads by using game mechanics which lower the overall discussion quality of the thread by spreading misinformation. So we decided to get this thread together to lay out some basic ground rules, and how yugioh should be used to clear up the grey area regarding it.

So if this is agreed upon it should probably be linked somewhere on the Yugioh Verses page for reference


Monster Cards: Probably the most prominent Issue, is the use of Monster card mechanics being used to extrapolate cards and effects as absolutes.

The big offender in this category is the use of cards involving "Infinite power" being wanked to Universe level ,like Obelisk's Sacrifice power, Ra's Phoenix form and many others, feats from monsters performed in duels should not be used (Like Giant soldier of stone destroying the Moon, seriously guys don't make silly claims like this) Instead use feats from the real versions of the monsters, as there is no other accurate way to get an idea of how powerful they really are. Power scaling Via attack/defense points is also not acceptable, However using the Lore from the Cards is fine if it isn't contradictory


Spell and Trap Cards:

-Anyone who has played or seen Yu-Gi-Oh! can tell you about the spells and trap cards. According to Pegasus, the yugioh card game was based of the Shadow Games. This caused misunderstandings that people usually ignored, even in this wiki. However, the clear absence of the spells and trap cards in Season 5 suggest that they are in fact, game mechanic based cards.

-Reasoning #1: We know this because cards like Magic Cylinder and Mirror Force were not used in the fight against Zorc which would have ended with him being demolished by it. An excuse for this is that because of how powerful and godly he is, he would have been immune to them.

-Reasoning #2: If so, then what about equip cards? Surely, Exodia or Blue-Eyes White Dragon could have used them to buff themselves up? But they don't.

-Reasoning #3: Add the fact that all the Shadow Game statues are monster cards and it is further proved that the spells and traps really aren't anything more than game cards.

-Reasoning #4: To further proof that spell and trap cards don't actually exist, look at the summoning of fusion monsters. Both Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon and Master of Dragon Knight didn't require the use of polymerization or any fusion card.


With this, it's easy to conclude that in fact, spell and traps don't actually exist beyond game mechanics.

(Note: During the first day this is out, I and possibly LordAizenSama may not be able to respond, so please wait for discussion between the creators of the thread)
 
So since, duels are usually held as a hologram where you don't often see permanent damage, how would the destructive capacity of something be measured if it is only strictly in the game mechanics and not interacting in the actual Yugioh world?

I know the Zorc saga was an exception, but tbh when it comes to infinite power I'm not sure if it would extend any further beyond the planet, to be honest.
 
Crazystarf said:
So since, duels are usually held as a hologram where you don't often see permanent damage, how would the destructive capacity of something be measured if it is only strictly in the game mechanics and not interacting in the actual Yugioh world?
I know the Zorc saga was an exception, but tbh when it comes to infinite power I'm not sure if it would extend any further beyond the planet, to be honest.
@Crazy the situation is complicated to say the least. If one were to try making a profile I would recommend that the ratings come from: Lore, Duel Terminal Storylines, or something similar to season 5.
 
Season 5 is an exception they call out the spirits of the duel monsters and feed them they're actual life force.That and I recall the dragon season being surprised duel monsters were alive at one point.
 
I suppose that if the mechanics of the game are contradictory to firmly established and consistent canon, then they cannot be used.
 
Aparajita said:
What about Undertale that's *literally* all game mechanics?
I mean, the entire game is nothing but a Game, itself.
Actually the game mechanics are part of the actual story, ie Sans abusing the use of the battle screen, Flowey explaining LOVE and EXP, SAVE and LOAD being used as a hax by Omega Flowey etc..

Where as in YugiOh! Pegasus gives the cards actual game mechanics which were mostly proven not to exist in Season 5.
 
SomebodyData said:
Actually the game mechanics are part of the actual story, ie Sans abusing the use of the battle screen, Flowey explaining LOVE and EXP, SAVE and LOAD being used as a hax by Omega Flowey etc..
And magic cards in Yugioh isn't?

Or "tapping Mana" in MTG?

Or mana, in general, in most MMOs (like SMITE, League of Legends, DotA)?

Or bottomless clips in shooter games (Like DMC)?

Like constant ammo drops in shooters (like Halo, Call of Duty, etc)?

What i'm saying is that in a lot of cases Game Mechanics are a thing in the game for a reason, and in some cases should be accepted.

The ability to redirect attacks (I.e, in Yugioh, Magical Cylinder) should be considered a HAX not "lolgamemechanics"

If Yugi can activate Cylinder in response to Goku's God Kam, then it should work. However, the speed difference would prevent Yugi from being able to do so.

Since it's called "Magic", in the game, people with magic resistence (Eragon, Dovakiin, etc) should have some resistence towards Yugi's spells / traps, while characters with outright magic immunity (Trion Juggernaut, etc) should be immune to them all together.


Edit: With certain exceptions, like skipping turns and obvious things in game only.
 
Aparajita said:
And magic cards in Yugioh isn't?

Or "tapping Mana" in MTG?

Or mana, in general, in most MMOs (like SMITE, League of Legends, DotA)?

Or bottomless clips in shooter games (Like DMC)?

Like constant ammo drops in shooters (like Halo, Call of Duty, etc)?

What i'm saying is that in a lot of cases Game Mechanics are a thing in the game for a reason, and in some cases should be accepted.

The ability to redirect attacks (I.e, in Yugioh, Magical Cylinder) should be considered a HAX not "lolgamemechanics"

If Yugi can activate Cylinder in response to Goku's God Kam, then it should work. However, the speed difference would prevent Yugi from being able to do so.

Since it's called "Magic", in the game, people with magic resistence (Eragon, Dovakiin, etc) should have some resistence towards Yugi's spells / traps, while characters with outright magic immunity (Trion Juggernaut, etc) should be immune to them all together.
I feel like you should read me edit to the my statement (sorry for not implementing it earlier by the way, I forgot lol)
 
SomebodyData said:
I feel like you should read me edit to the my statement (sorry for not implementing it earlier by the way, I forgot lol)
Why do said mechanics transcend the game into the ancient battles before they became cards / exist in the Shadow Games that aren't the Card Game at all?
 
Aparajita said:
Why do said mechanics transcend the game into the ancient battles before they became cards / exist in the Shadow Games that aren't the Card Game at all?
Uh, I don't understand the question?
 
SomebodyData said:
Aparajita said:
Why do said mechanics transcend the game into the ancient battles before they became cards / exist in the Shadow Games that aren't the Card Game at all?
Uh, I don't understand the question?
If it's a "game mechanic" (implying it's to the CARD GAME itself), then why does said spells and traps exist from before they were made into cards?

Quoting from the show, "Combining the magic of the Millennium Items with these cards had the same effect as using them with the stone slabs originally used."

So, said magical affects was happening before Pegasus even created Duel Monsters.

On description, "Using various means of sorcery, they send themselves into an alternate dimension where their duel would not be interrupted, and where cheating is strictly forbidden, punishable by death. In the Shadow Games, the sorcerers' skills would be tested by seeing how powerful of monsters they can summon, and how powerful a spell they can cast to power up their monsters"
 
If it's a "game mechanic" (implying it's to the CARD GAME itself), then why does said spells and traps exist from before they were made into cards?

Just because they're loosely based on Ideas and themes from Ancient Egypt such as traps in pyramids, or having sorcerers with magic does not mean they have the exact same effect in a childrens trading card game five thousands years later where there is absolutely no option outside of the games designed mechanics to avoid/overpower said spells or traps. as you can see it falls into NLF rather easily.
 
I'll give you a hypothetical example:

Say I summon A Blue Eyes White Dragon, and a enemy Uses the Trap card bottomless trap hole.

Now in a duel Blue eyes White Dragon can't do a single thing about that due to Game Mechanics. It dies.

Now repeat that scenario outside of a duel, I summon A Blue eyes white dragon, The enemy Uses the bottomless trap hole, But Blue Eyes White Dragon can Fly, so why would it die to Bottomless trap hole?

So you can see why it would be faulty to assume the Cards would behave like they do in a duel in a versus match. It's pretty simple really.
 
Also, none of the spells and traps were used in Season 5, not even any form of Polymerization despite having some fusion monsters...
 
SomebodyData said:
Also, none of the spells and traps were used in Season 5, not even any form of Polymerization despite having some fusion monsters...
In that scenario, yes, Aizen, the Blue Eyes would fly away. What of it?

What if you used Dark Hole to summon a Black Hole to suck things away? Or Mirror Force to redirect an attack?

The fact that said cards have been used *before* it was a TCG should say something, as i literally just quoted from the show about said magic / trap cards being used by sorcerors in ancient egypt, before the TCG existed.

Episode 21, Season 5, "Blue-Eyed Kisara" literally Dark Magician uses Spell Cards outside of the duel, 1 to empower himself and 1 as an offensive spell.
 
Anyways, as i've seen, the chances of making someone see someone else's opinion on this site are next to nothing.

I've stated my opinions, you're welcome to do whatever you wish - as you will, regardless.
 
However did he use the spells/ traps that were actually in the card game? Using Dark Magican as an example is rather not honest, magic and spells still exist outside of the game its literally its the core of its plot. However the spell and trap cards don't.
 
So does anyone else have any objections to this? as i'd like to put in on Yugiohs verse page for reference.
 
Okay. I think we should use Game Mechanics ONLY if specified.


Duel Monsters have real power on the real world, as evidenced by Pyramid of Light and Bonds Beyond Time.

Magic Cards and Trap cards ARE part of the canon and ARE part of the Shadow Games, which are 100% Canon, saying that because you didnt see them on Season 5 is "proof" that they do not exist is invalid.


Also, if the admins hate Game Mechanics so much, i guess we have to delete the entirety of the Undertale, SAO and .Hack Verses, since they were MADE to be used with game mechanics, like Yugioh.
128 yugi load duel disk cards joey dream


I am voting for using the game mechanics ONLY if specified.

Because this is downgrading Yugi to being a team of the 5 "God" tiers.
 
SomebodyData said:
Aparajita said:
What about Undertale that's *literally* all game mechanics?
I mean, the entire game is nothing but a Game, itself.
Actually the game mechanics are part of the actual story, ie Sans abusing the use of the battle screen, Flowey explaining LOVE and EXP, SAVE and LOAD being used as a hax by Omega Flowey etc..
Where as in YugiOh! Pegasus gives the cards actual game mechanics which were mostly proven not to exist in Season 5.
Game Mechanics are also part of Yugioh´s plot.


Shadow Games, Seal of Orichalcos, Millenium Items, God Cards, Knights, etc.
 
Mikoto Misaka231 said:
Game Mechanics are also part of Yugioh´s plot.

Shadow Games, Seal of Orichalcos, Millenium Items, God Cards, Knights, etc.
Yes but the cards are given game mechanic properties, like how theres infinite attack and sacrifices despite not being prescent in season 5
 
SomebodyData said:
Mikoto Misaka231 said:
Game Mechanics are also part of Yugioh´s plot.

Shadow Games, Seal of Orichalcos, Millenium Items, God Cards, Knights, etc.
Yes but the cards are given game mechanic properties, like how theres infinite attack and sacrifices despite not being prescent in season 5
I´m not the writer of Yu-Gi-Oh.

Maybe because it would be too easy?

Why did Goku only use SS1 on the last episode when he has SSGSS?

He didnt use it on that fight, does it mean that form does not exist?


Same here, Yugi and the God cards didnt do the sacrifice, why?

I dunno.

But does it mean that it doesnt exist?
 
Mikoto Misaka231 said:
I´m not the writer of Yu-Gi-Oh.

Maybe because it would be too easy?

Why did Goku only use SS1 on the last episode when he has SSGSS?

He didnt use it on that fight, does it mean that form does not exist?

Same here, Yugi and the God cards didnt do the sacrifice, why?

I dunno.

But does it mean that it doesnt exist?
Differnece is that goku proabably wanted a fair fight (knowing Goku) and everyone was being screwed in the fight against Zorc (Yugi literally was at his last straws not using spells and traps would be suicide)
 
Mikoto Misaka231 said:
They still exist and have canonicity on the plot.
That´s all that matters.
They exist sure, just that they aren't useable
 
Mikoto Misaka231 said:
It is part of the Shadow Games, orichalcos saga, etc.

Game Mechanics are necessary for Yugioh.

Kill Undertale if you do not like Game mechanics.
Actually the stats of the Undertale characters are not the actual stats in the code, counting them as a lore (as an example)

And no, game mechanics are not necessary for Yugioh since it already has Season 5...
 
Mikoto, stop bringing UnderTale up everytime this is up for discussion, it adds nothing. if you really think it should be deleted, take it up in a different thread (although I wouldn't recommend doing it anyway, you'd be wasting your time)

Long story short Yugiohs game mechanics is abuse of NLF, so it's not going to be acceptable under any circumstance
 
LordAizenSama said:
Mikoto, stop bringing UnderTale up everytime this is up for discussion, it adds nothing. if you really think it should be deleted, take it up in a different thread (although I wouldn't recommend doing it anyway, you'd be wasting your time)
Long story short Yugiohs game mechanics is abuse of NLF, so it's not going to be acceptable under any circumstance
Again, Aizen.

Those Game Mechanics are important to the plot of Yugioh.


I compared it to undertale since Flowey and other enemies use saves, EXP and other Game-based terms plot-wise.
 
Going by game mechanics Blue Eyes is weaker than the Egyptian Gods lol. Going by anime feats Blue Eyes is stronger since it beat Zorc, whom defeated the Gods. Mik you just lost all credibility in this debate.
 
Midnight750 said:
Going by game mechanics Blue Eyes is weaker than the Egyptian Gods lol. Going by anime feats Blue Eyes is stronger since it beat Zorc, whom defeated the Gods. Mik you just lost all credibility in this debate.


"Lost all creadibility on this debate"

Oh man.


Look, Game Yugi and Season 5 Yugi work on different rules.

Blue Eyes might be stronger in the Season 5 "reality"


But that is not true on Duel monsters, which is based on all the other 4 seasons of Yugioh.
 
Mikoto Misaka231 said:
"Lost all creadibility on this debate"

Oh man. Look, Game Yugi and Season 5 Yugi work on different rules.

Blue Eyes might be stronger in the Season 5 "reality" But that is not true on Duel monsters, which is based on all the other 4 seasons of Yugioh.
Duel Monsters = game mechanics

Under your logic do you believe in omnipotent Star Mario?
 
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