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Duel Monsters is essential to the plot of Yugioh.SomebodyData said:
That why, if ou want to use DM Yugi, you state that you want to use DM Yugi.
Star Matio Omnipotent?
Not really, he can die if he falls on a pit.
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Yu-Gi-Oh Ratings?
- Thread starter SomebodyData
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- Status
That why, if ou want to use DM Yugi, you state that you want to use DM Yugi.
Star Matio Omnipotent?
Not really, he can die if he falls on a pit.
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Which is literally all game mechanics,Mikoto Misaka231 said:
Ah I did not remember that
Tier High 1-A Mario with a weakness of lava then under your logic
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Tier High 1-A Mario with a weakness to Lava, Pits and Black Holes.SomebodyData said:
(Reality Warping and power nullification as well, i might add.)
Hahahaha.
No.
I am just saying DM Yugi follows other rules.
Since, why would Blue Eyes be stronger than the god cards, right?
(That Snake vs Pikachu thing is tearing me apart.)
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Again the same can be applied to Mario, also Blue Eyes being stronger than the gods is just another showing that the yugioh cards are filled with game mechanicsMikoto Misaka231 said:
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Well, In Duel Monsters, Blue Eyes is NOT as strong as the gods.SomebodyData said:
So...What´cha wanna get out of this?
DM is filled with Game Mechanics, Season 5 is not, but has these contradictions.
Different rules on all circunstances.
Anywho, gotta sleep, i have stuff to do tomorrow.
I´ll continue this tomorrow, ´kay?
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Game Mechanics=/=Reality though lol. Reality feats>Game Mehcanics obviously. The fact that you're debating this is laughable.
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HAHAHAHA.Midnight750 said:
SO FUNNY.
THIS IS SO LAUGHEABLE.
HAHAHA.
Wait...How is this funny?
Is it the fact that you come out of nowhere to insult my arguments?
hat IS Funny.
On a very sad way.
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Calculating AP from a card game is going to be very difficult, if not impossible because the rules of the game do not really affect the rules in the real word; for example, even if Blue Eyes attacks, it will not actually destroy its surroundings as demonstrated in most of the duels.
I think the only feats that can be calculated are the feats that happened during Yugi's "trip" to Egypt, or if there is any major destruction that occurs as a result of the card duel. Other than that, there is no basis for calculating a monster's AP directly from a card game, as their attacks don't affect the surrounding environment anyways.
I think the only feats that can be calculated are the feats that happened during Yugi's "trip" to Egypt, or if there is any major destruction that occurs as a result of the card duel. Other than that, there is no basis for calculating a monster's AP directly from a card game, as their attacks don't affect the surrounding environment anyways.
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I think Midnight is calling it funny because reality > game mechanics is a standard here and well, everywhere
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Bump, me and Aizen wanna see if there are any more questions before we add it to the Yugioh page
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So...If Undertale´s Bravely Default´s (I made the post myself, you see.) and Pokemon´s Game Mechanic feats are considered on this wiki, why not Yugioh?
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Pokemon game mechanic feats aren't considered. Undertale and I assume Bravely Default's are considered because the game explicitly shows them to be canon.Mikoto Misaka231 said:
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>Both Yugioh moviesAzathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
>Orichalcos Season 4
Well, atleast there is no denying Jaden.
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I'm pretty sure this is about stuff like "infinite power", not monsters being real and able to actually do things.Mikoto Misaka231 said:
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Nah, The Orichalcos guys released REAL monsters in the REAL world.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
REAL DUEL MONSTERS MONSTERS.
So, those should be comparable to...I dunno...Yugi´s Duel Monsters Monsters, don´t you think?
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I never said they weren't. I was talking about the nature of game mechanics.
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Even if Yugioh's game feats were considered on this wiki, finding the actual destructive capacity would very difficult as their is no damage done to the surrounding environment. You can find descriptions of Yu-gi-oh cards on what some of these monsters are capable of doing...Mikoto Misaka231 said:
But then you realize that if an opposing monster is weakened through a spell or a monster's effect, even a monster as weak as Celtic Guardian has a chance of defeating something like a Blue Eyes White Dragon. You have to wonder if there is a way to properly calculate the destructive capacity for something like this, as it seems to not follow the tiering guidelines stated in the tiering system.
As for me, Yugioh calculations were much more enjoyable when moons and real monsters were involved and stuff, so I am leaning towards anime calculations having priority over card ones.
Also, one difference with Pokemon is that in the Pokemon world, the monsters are actually real, instead of holograms. This means that the feats performed by Pokemon can be calculated, just like how the destructive capacity of Zorc and Blue Eyes were calculated (because they actually existed as a being during those episodes and was not part of a hologram). Keep in mind that all of the pokemon in the game have descriptions on what they can do.
For Tyranitar, it states "In just one of its mighty hands, it has the power to make the ground shake and mountains crumble." This describes pretty much what it can do.
Anyways, for a feat to be calculated, the destruction has to actually affect the environment in the series; a hologram is not capable of doing any damage to the surrounding environment, and thus the only way to calculate their tiering would be to check the description of the cards themselves (which may or may not work out).
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Just let me take out a looooooooooong sigh before saying anything *Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiign* ok, i'm done
i'm not really follow the thread (Obviously because i'm too lazy to read all of them) so i will just reply to the main thread
For the Magic Cards thing ( yes, i will stick to the original and call them Magic cards :3 ) i should point out that in the episode 40 of Yugioh GX, Abidos make a clear reference to a magic cards when he is "Still alive", it's was this card . He said that when he was a pharaoh, nobody has ever tried to destroy his Sarcophagus before (which are the magic and trap cards btw), THIS implied that The Classic Shadow Game (Which is where everyone took the feats from) has the similiar so-called "Game mechanic" to the current duel monster game.
Got nothing left to say, just point out some fact :3
i'm not really follow the thread (Obviously because i'm too lazy to read all of them) so i will just reply to the main thread
For the Magic Cards thing ( yes, i will stick to the original and call them Magic cards :3 ) i should point out that in the episode 40 of Yugioh GX, Abidos make a clear reference to a magic cards when he is "Still alive", it's was this card . He said that when he was a pharaoh, nobody has ever tried to destroy his Sarcophagus before (which are the magic and trap cards btw), THIS implied that The Classic Shadow Game (Which is where everyone took the feats from) has the similiar so-called "Game mechanic" to the current duel monster game.
Got nothing left to say, just point out some fact :3
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Uh he does he have three sacrophaguses?... unless you're implying he also had three bodies and that his sarcophagus was transformed into a card, it seems more like a card based on a sarcophagus?MagiSinbad said:
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it seems more like a card based on a sarcophagus
More like the "Sarcophagus cards" are based on the "Sarcophagus tomb (i clearly dont remember what they called it)" from the shadow game. Abidos know about dueling and that was his thing when he was still a pharaoh. In-game shadow game, nobody has ever tried to destroy his Sarcophagus tomb before, because without those spell and trap cards, he cant win again them. So yeah, spell/trap tomb are real :3
More like the "Sarcophagus cards" are based on the "Sarcophagus tomb (i clearly dont remember what they called it)" from the shadow game. Abidos know about dueling and that was his thing when he was still a pharaoh. In-game shadow game, nobody has ever tried to destroy his Sarcophagus tomb before, because without those spell and trap cards, he cant win again them. So yeah, spell/trap tomb are real :3
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I don't get what your saying?MagiSinbad said:
Also, if spells and traps were real couldn't someone just use mystic space typhoon? Just a thought.
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I feel that Game Mechanics should be ignored unless they can be made sense of or turned into consistent, fair effect that makes logical sense like piercing battle damage. Piercing battle damage could be used as a kind of durability bypassing to a REASONABLE extent. Since no YuGiOh top tiers have this, i think it would fair if used correctly for the Street/building level monsters. If not, that's fine, makes perfect sense to ignore that.
Spells and traps should be ignored completely unless they have lore connections that can be turned into actual feats. kind of like how by using 'Spellbook of the Master' in a card storyline, 'the Fool of Prophecy' became 'reaper of Prophecy' and defeated Endymion and his citadel of spellcasters. That should count, but spells and traps like Monster Reborn and Waboku should be ignored always unless it's a duel matchup like Yugi vs. Yusei in a duel imo.
Monster effects should be ignored for fairness unless outside help is allowed. ie: Marauding Captain shouldn't be allowed to summon an extra monster via his special ability to help because then they could fuse/synchro/overlay into a much more power, auto-win monster. However, a monster's effect that increases it's own offense and defense should be allowed imo.
The problem with setting up terms and conditions for YuGiOh is that the general consensus, or at least the 'higher ups' of this wiki have to agree on them and their fairness, and there will always be someone who tries that asinine 'lol obelisk infinite' garbage that is so far from true it's hilarious. I personally would be quite happy to help establish these rules, as I feel that Game Mechanics are a huge problem in Gaming character profiles/matchups, much like a thread i chimed in on recently that matched Lagiacrus against Pikachu, something that was inconclusive because of the grossly different game mechanics between Pokemon and MH
Spells and traps should be ignored completely unless they have lore connections that can be turned into actual feats. kind of like how by using 'Spellbook of the Master' in a card storyline, 'the Fool of Prophecy' became 'reaper of Prophecy' and defeated Endymion and his citadel of spellcasters. That should count, but spells and traps like Monster Reborn and Waboku should be ignored always unless it's a duel matchup like Yugi vs. Yusei in a duel imo.
Monster effects should be ignored for fairness unless outside help is allowed. ie: Marauding Captain shouldn't be allowed to summon an extra monster via his special ability to help because then they could fuse/synchro/overlay into a much more power, auto-win monster. However, a monster's effect that increases it's own offense and defense should be allowed imo.
The problem with setting up terms and conditions for YuGiOh is that the general consensus, or at least the 'higher ups' of this wiki have to agree on them and their fairness, and there will always be someone who tries that asinine 'lol obelisk infinite' garbage that is so far from true it's hilarious. I personally would be quite happy to help establish these rules, as I feel that Game Mechanics are a huge problem in Gaming character profiles/matchups, much like a thread i chimed in on recently that matched Lagiacrus against Pikachu, something that was inconclusive because of the grossly different game mechanics between Pokemon and MH
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I don't get what your saying?
I'm sorry, look like my english is tooo bad to understand >->
Anyway, i was replied to this statement of you :
However, the clear absence of the spells and trap cards in Season 5 suggest that they are in fact, game mechanic based cards.
If you've watched GX's episode 40, you will know that Abidos has mentioned about his sacorphagus cards in the acient time when he said : You're...going to destroy my sacorphagus ? nobody has ever tried to destroy my sacorphagus before... (Reference to the acient egypt people whom he has dueled with) this implied that Spells/traps do exist since the ancient time and there could the other spell/trap like Abidos's sacorphagus
Also, if spells and traps were real couldn't someone just use mystic space typhoon? Just a thought.
i hardly understand what are you trying to say.
Are you asking me that if the spell/trap in Abidos's time is real then why nobody uses the MST to destroy Abidos's spell/trap ?
Then the answer should be obvious that they dont want to, the people in egypt has alway trying to lose to Abidos on purpose because he's a pharaoh. This has been directly explained in that episode
Or what you mean is : if spell/trap are real in those time then why nobody using it again Zorc and the other Kars in the season 5 of yugioh ?
i really should point out that Atem's era and Abidos's era are seperated, there are some possiblitíe that Shadow game has developed from time to time until Abidos's era that spell and trap appear as a part of Shadow Game
(I'm not really sure what i'm gonna say next so correct me if i'm wrong, okay ?) even if spell and trap do exist in Atem era, there are no guaranteer that it would work if someone on Zorc's level
I'm sorry, look like my english is tooo bad to understand >->
Anyway, i was replied to this statement of you :
However, the clear absence of the spells and trap cards in Season 5 suggest that they are in fact, game mechanic based cards.
If you've watched GX's episode 40, you will know that Abidos has mentioned about his sacorphagus cards in the acient time when he said : You're...going to destroy my sacorphagus ? nobody has ever tried to destroy my sacorphagus before... (Reference to the acient egypt people whom he has dueled with) this implied that Spells/traps do exist since the ancient time and there could the other spell/trap like Abidos's sacorphagus
Also, if spells and traps were real couldn't someone just use mystic space typhoon? Just a thought.
i hardly understand what are you trying to say.
Are you asking me that if the spell/trap in Abidos's time is real then why nobody uses the MST to destroy Abidos's spell/trap ?
Then the answer should be obvious that they dont want to, the people in egypt has alway trying to lose to Abidos on purpose because he's a pharaoh. This has been directly explained in that episode
Or what you mean is : if spell/trap are real in those time then why nobody using it again Zorc and the other Kars in the season 5 of yugioh ?
i really should point out that Atem's era and Abidos's era are seperated, there are some possiblitíe that Shadow game has developed from time to time until Abidos's era that spell and trap appear as a part of Shadow Game
(I'm not really sure what i'm gonna say next so correct me if i'm wrong, okay ?) even if spell and trap do exist in Atem era, there are no guaranteer that it would work if someone on Zorc's level
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Woah, someone is defending Magic/trap cards?
This discovery has made me recover some hope on humanity.
This discovery has made me recover some hope on humanity.
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the problem is magic/traps cards using their GameCard Mechanics extrapolates them as unbreakable absolute effects outside of other card effects.
so they will never be acceptable.
so they will never be acceptable.
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Never say Never.LordAizenSama said:
And...GX.
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It won't be happening.
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Everything can happen as long we have hope.LordAizenSama said:
And GX.
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GX changes nothing. at all.
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Everything can change![URL='https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/1/13/Chrom_%28FE13_Artwork%29.png/revision/latest?cb=20150311022503'][IMG alt="Chrom (FE13 Artwork) said:
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this guy is using pictures of Chrom and using one instance in the worst YuGiOh series (opinion) to try and justify thousands of absolute Game Mechanics that can't be avoided. I'd lock this to avoid further deviation and/or debate. If multiple people say that Spells and traps should be illegal because of Game Mechanics hax, than they should be. No reason to let a single instance in a single episode be the reason to allow thousands of Game Mechanic based hax
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Stop...
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>No reason to let a single instance in a single episode be the reason to allow thousands of Game Mechanic based haxJiroUchiha9 said:
oh, you don´t wanna go there.
>Spells and traps should be illegal because of Game Mechanics hax
Oh, man.
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and what about it? You are really saying that because a guy mentioned the first sarchophagus, a SARCHOPHAGUS, that Change of Heart should be allowed for Auto-win mind manipulation, or Bottomless Trap Hole for Auto BFR? Or Monster Reborn for Auto=Regen/ressurection? or Lightning Vortex/Reigeki Break for Auto destruction? To allow Game Mechanics based auto-regen and/or mind manipulation because a guy mentioned a fancy coffin is beyond asinine. That's identical to scaling pikachu to 2-C because he hit Arceus, something an 8-A being CAN'T do. It's beyond ridiculous
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Well, when was hax not ridiculous?JiroUchiha9 said:
It´s not like Pokemon anime or manga make a reference to PPs or HP, or else they would have to be considered.
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Hax is ridiculous, but hax that would allow Kuriboh to BFR Goku or allow Junk Sychron to auto mind manipulate Toriko is ridiculous, and if allowed, would cause grossly unbalanced matches that are even more unbalanced than a Giorno Giovana matchup.
Consider this. Monster Reborn allows you to special summon ANY deceased monster, from you or your opponents graveyard. Because graveyard don't exist, you'd have to either use it to auto regen a character that loses, OR have it be used on any dea character in either verse, which would be asinine. If Giant Soldier of Stone could revive Ichiryuu to fight Gorilla Taurus it would be the same as if Krillin called Goku to fight Tien. Unfair, unbalanced, and ********. With spells and traps legal YuGiOh would have THOUSANDS of different kinds of hax that can't be counter without other spells and trap hax, which would give even the weakest YuGiOh character/monster THOUSANDS of tools, which is unfair in every way.
I love YuGiOh, and want to work out the unknown parameters plaguing it but to allow Utopia to use 'Rank Up Magic Force' spells to evolve into it's highest form, that wouldn't be fair because Utopia's highest form is likely tiers beyond the original.
You literally can not be serious about giving the YuGiOh verse access to Magic Cylinder, Mirror Force and Negate Attack. An arsenal of things that are guaranteed to redirect, cancel, or simply destroy any attacking force is beyond asinine, and is literally so stupid that I'm having a hard time comprehending that ANYONE can think this way.
Consider this. Monster Reborn allows you to special summon ANY deceased monster, from you or your opponents graveyard. Because graveyard don't exist, you'd have to either use it to auto regen a character that loses, OR have it be used on any dea character in either verse, which would be asinine. If Giant Soldier of Stone could revive Ichiryuu to fight Gorilla Taurus it would be the same as if Krillin called Goku to fight Tien. Unfair, unbalanced, and ********. With spells and traps legal YuGiOh would have THOUSANDS of different kinds of hax that can't be counter without other spells and trap hax, which would give even the weakest YuGiOh character/monster THOUSANDS of tools, which is unfair in every way.
I love YuGiOh, and want to work out the unknown parameters plaguing it but to allow Utopia to use 'Rank Up Magic Force' spells to evolve into it's highest form, that wouldn't be fair because Utopia's highest form is likely tiers beyond the original.
You literally can not be serious about giving the YuGiOh verse access to Magic Cylinder, Mirror Force and Negate Attack. An arsenal of things that are guaranteed to redirect, cancel, or simply destroy any attacking force is beyond asinine, and is literally so stupid that I'm having a hard time comprehending that ANYONE can think this way.
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Do not start a pokemon debate here, please. It's needlessly controversial and will derail the thread if it persists.
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Well, Yugi only has one Monster Reborn.JiroUchiha9 said:
So you would only have to kill it one more time.
Also, a lot of characters on this page are unfair to a lot of other characters as well.
I don´t see you creating a protest because no one can beat TOAA, why the Saint Seiya characters have atomization hax or why you just cannot go punch Madokami on the face.
Every character has it´s powers and it´s weakenesses.
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Well, most people have agreed to this and Mikoto hasn't put up any convincing counter arguments, so this thread is pretty much decided.
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Oh, believe me.LordAizenSama said:
I have.
GX, Orichalcos, Beggining of Season 4 (real monsters), and the two movies show Duel Monsters as a real thing.
But, again, i wanna chat as soon as possible. So, do what you wish.
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