2Flat2Land: Flatterland Cosmology

[AmogusSusfunni]

I'm looking to get this cosmology page for Flatterland accepted. (Scaling included in the page)

Once I get it accepted, I'll start working on the profiles for the 'verse.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I think I’m either dumb or very dense but I didn't see half your points in the blog. At least not for anything above Low 1-A.

Infinity:​

I don't have any other context other than going off what you said, but I will remind you that “infinity” is often used as a stand-in for space. It usually denotes some sort of infinite space which a lot of fictional verses use but it hardly ever mentions the existence of “infinite-dimensional space” just because it is referred to as “infinite.” This verse may get the pass but I don't recommend you use it as the basis for High 1-B because that's quite a higher interpretation of a word that means a lot of things.

Again, it is fine since the verse heavily relies on mathematics but it seems very grey when we use that word as the basis of evidence. I do see some 2-A statements for sure about the Spaces and the existence of some higher-dimensional space with these statements:

Physical reality has many interpretations, and the one presented to us by our sense organs need not be the only possibility. Our universe could be just one of an infinite variety of universes that might have happened instead, so that we occupy just a wafer-thin slice of a vast multiverse.

~ Chapter 4, One Hundred and One Dimensions

​

And this:

No. It goes on doing that for ever. It’s not a real fern: it’s a mathematical idealization of fern structure. The trees and bushes have the same infinitely fine repeating structure. And so, oddly enough, does the snow.’

~ Chapter 5, One and a Quarter Dimensions

​

‘Are you a real snowflake?’ asked Vikki. ‘No, no, not at all. If I were, then I wouldn’t be able to sunbathe - I’d melt.’ The snowflake paused, as if gathering its wits. ‘However, I do share a real snowflake’s sixfold symmetry, and if anything I am even more intricate, but my bodily form is much too regular for a true snowflake. Think of me as a visual pun.’

~ Chapter 5, One and a Quarter Dimensions

​

Now the Mathiverse portions sound like Low 1-A for encompassing all mathematical constructs and all physical lower structures with their geometrical nature. I don't really see cases above it. Some grounds have 1-A, but everything is explained by Low 1-A.

“Time doesn't exist” is explained by the fact that Low 1-A is beyond time in a quantitative nature whether the nature of it is timeless or it occupies a timeless place.

I feel like I've seen the argument of this verse alongside its parent verse somehow being able to get a High 1-A+ rating based on the framework of ascending possibility, but that's contradictory since High 1-A+ isn't hierarchical and it hinges on encompassing hierarchy while operating based on pure logistic possibility that encompasses all framework of the Cosmology albeit being the apex. I'm neutral to agreeing on 1-A, neutral to disagreeing with High 1-A+, and agreeing with Low 1-A.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I'll get some mod's attention. This seems like a very interesting case.

 

[AmogusSusfunni]

The High 1-B stuff is more explicitly stated here (which I should've added to the blog, my bad tbh):

"So how do Planiturthians experience the Mathiverse, then? Instead of a VUE, they use an IMAGER. Imagination, Mathematics, Analogy,Generalization, Extrapolation, and Recursion.Take, for instance, their conception of space. They look around andimagine themselves to be on a flat plane with an extra up/down direction.(Planiturth is round, but no matter: it’s also BIG.) They turn this into the mathematics of 3D Euclidean space. They use analogies with 2D space,where they can draw pictures, to understand 3D. But - and this is crucial to understanding how their minds work - they don’t stop there. They generalize to 4D, 5D, nD, ∞D. And they extrapolate concepts from their 3D experiences, so planes extrapolate to hyperplanes, spheres to n-spheres, andso on. Finally (only you’ll see it’s not final at all) they recursively go back to the imagination stage and start all over again. Which is what’s led them from a simple 3D Euclidean spatial model to the far more sophisticated and intricate geometry of the quantum universe" ~ Chapter 11, Cat Country

As for the High 1-A+/Low 1-A/1-A stuff, I'm honestly fine with any of the 3 being applied.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

The High 1-B stuff is more explicitly stated here (which I should've added to the blog, my bad tbh):



As for the High 1-A+/Low 1-A/1-A stuff, I'm honestly fine with any of the 3 being applied.

Yeah, High 1-B is fine since it and Low 1-A seems obvious here.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I disagree with Planiturth scaling to mathiverse since it created and influenced mathiverse through mental processes which is purely non physical/abstract and has no reason to physically scale it. @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless also might have things to say

 

[AmogusSusfunni]

I disagree with Planiturth scaling to mathiverse since it created and influenced mathiverse through mental processes which is purely non physical/abstract and has no reason to physically scale it.

It would still scale to it, even if not physically. Also this would kinda only make sense if we assume both Mathiverse and Planiturth are Low 1-A (Since the Mathiverse being a creation of some physically non qualitatively superior being would probably neuter the chances of it being 1-A or above), which I'm not opposing but still..

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

It would still scale to it, even if not physically. Also this would kinda only make sense if we assume both Mathiverse and Planiturth are Low 1-A (Since the Mathiverse being a creation of some physically non qualitatively superior being would probably neuter the chances of it being 1-A or above), which I'm not opposing but still..

It says mental processes are inbuilt into the Mathiverse and brains are just a sort of expression of that which is also the reason for the weird loopy self referential nature. There's not really any reason for Planiturth to scale nor would it be an anti feat to 1-A if it were that as taken from FAQ

Furthermore, since the "lack of continuity" that exists between the higher level and the lower one is structural, and not causal, there can potentially be more unorthodox ways of bypassing the 1-A barrier. For example: Things that don't have anything to do with raw power, but just a general transfer/exposure of information between one level and another. Another example could be cosmologies where a higher level originates from the thoughts/beliefs/etc of inhabitants of a lower level; while these thoughts literally originating within the lower reality and then somehow "floating away" to form a higher one would be a disqualifier, no anti-feat is present if the verse has it so these operations simply already exist in a higher reality.

 

[AmogusSusfunni]

snip

There's no evidence that the Mathiverse is where said operations happen. (If anything the fact that the Mathiverse was created by the Planiturthians seems to suggest that if anything they'd be the superior ones, since the act of the creation of the Mathiverse obviously couldn't have come across by the Mathiverse itself unless we accept that it created itself, which is pretty ridiculous and not supported by the text)

(Strictly as an aside, and not as actual evidence, given how the Mathiverse/Planiturth thing is supposed to mirror real world Platonism v. Formalism debates, and the book doesn't really seem to take a side, I do feel they should be at the same level)

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

‘No,’ he said. ‘Their minds are all in It. Their brains are built from Planiturthian-universe matter, obeying Planiturthian-universe rules. Their minds are processes that go on inside their brains - and many of those processes are internal representations of that external universe. So, not surprisingly, Planiturthian minds construct - by the collective use of IMAGER - a Mathiverse that mimics the effects of those external rules pretty well. They don’t always get the rules right -for all they know there may not be any ultimate rules at all - but they keep tinkering, and slowly the correspondence between Mathiversian rules and observed reality becomes extraordinarily accurate.’ ‘So that’s all there is to it, then?’ I asked him. 'Not quite,’ he said. ‘There’s something very mysterious going on, too. Why is it that Planiturthians live in a universe where IMAGER works, anyway?’ Why?’ I asked him, after a long silence. ‘Beats me,’ he said.

Is this not saying that peoples minds are within the mathiverse and that the brains processes are representations of the mind in the mathiverse?

There's no evidence that the Mathiverse is where said operations happen. (If anything the fact that the Mathiverse was created by the Planiturthians seems to suggest that if anything they'd be the superior ones, since the act of the creation of the Mathiverse obviously couldn't have come across by the Mathiverse itself unless we accept that it created itself, which is pretty ridiculous and not supported by the text)

(Strictly as an aside, and not as actual evidence, given how the Mathiverse/Planiturth thing is supposed to mirror real world Platonism v. Formalism debates, and the book doesn't really seem to take a side, I do feel they should be at the same level)

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

There's no evidence that the Mathiverse is where said operations happen. (If anything the fact that the Mathiverse was created by the Planiturthians seems to suggest that if anything they'd be the superior ones, since the act of the creation of the Mathiverse obviously couldn't have come across by the Mathiverse itself unless we accept that it created itself, which is pretty ridiculous and not supported by the text)

(Strictly as an aside, and not as actual evidence, given how the Mathiverse/Planiturth thing is supposed to mirror real world Platonism v. Formalism debates, and the book doesn't really seem to take a side, I do feel they should be at the same level)

and I don't really see any problems as the whole point of it is to be self referential and paradoxical where they both create each other.

 

[AmogusSusfunni]

Is this not saying that peoples minds are within the mathiverse and that the brains processes are representations of whats in the mathiverse?

I guess that would make sense, yeah. I rescind that point. There's still the "what created the Mathiverse" problem I brought up though.

and I don't really see any problems as the whole point of it is to be self referential and paradoxical where they both create each other.

This new tiering system doesn't play very nice with illogic iirc (which is probably my main reason that i think just Low 1-Aing it is fine)

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Low 1-A for the Mathiverse is pretty explicit, but I think High 1-A+ also makes sense, since the Mathiverse contains all formal descriptions of logical structures and all informal descriptions of illogical structures, and any possible proposition we imagine being something that has always existed in the Mathiverse all along. It contains all categories, and even the idea of transcendence itself doesn't apply to it.

The only thing I can see people taking an issue with is the self-referential paradox, but since it's something that disregards logic and could go either way, "At least Low 1-A, likely High 1-A+" could be a reasonable compromise for it.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

In regards to Planiturthians, they can still be lower than the Mathiverse even if they have created it. It's kinda like the concept of collective unconsciousness. For example, in SMT humanity's collective thoughts involuntarily created YHVH but those normal humans arent 1-A inherently.

It would be the same case here. The collective mind of Planiturthians created the Mathiverse, but they are still explicitly contained and transcended by the latter.

 

[AmogusSusfunni]

In regards to Planiturthians, they can still be lower than the Mathiverse even if they have created it. It's kinda like the concept of collective unconsciousness. For example, in SMT humanity's collective thoughts involuntarily created YHVH but those normal humans arent 1-A inherently.

It would be the same case here. The collective mind of Planiturthians created the Mathiverse, but they are still explicitly contained and transcended by the latter.

what about the quote of the Planiturthians being "realer" and such. Would that scale em anywhere?

 

[Reiner04]

High 1-A+ for the Mathiverse makes sense to me, since the Mathiverse contains all formal descriptions of logical structures and all informal descriptions of illogical structures, and any possible proposition we imagine being something that has always existed in the Mathiverse all along. It contains all categories, and even the idea of transcendence itself doesn't apply to it.

The only thing I can see people taking an issue with is the self-referential paradox, but since it's something that disregards logic and could go either way, "At least Low 1-A, likely High 1-A+" could be a good compromise for it.

High 1-A+ makes sense to me per blog too.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I've already made my statement here:

I think I’m either dumb or very dense but I didn't see half your points in the blog. At least not for anything above Low 1-A.

Infinity:​

I don't have any other context other than going off what you said, but I will remind you that “infinity” is often used as a stand-in for space. It usually denotes some sort of infinite space which a lot of fictional verses use but it hardly ever mentions the existence of “infinite-dimensional space” just because it is referred to as “infinite.” This verse may get the pass but I don't recommend you use it as the basis for High 1-B because that's quite a higher interpretation of a word that means a lot of things.

Again, it is fine since the verse heavily relies on mathematics but it seems very grey when we use that word as the basis of evidence. I do see some 2-A statements for sure about the Spaces and the existence of some higher-dimensional space with these statements:

Physical reality has many interpretations, and the one presented to us by our sense organs need not be the only possibility. Our universe could be just one of an infinite variety of universes that might have happened instead, so that we occupy just a wafer-thin slice of a vast multiverse.

~ Chapter 4, One Hundred and One Dimensions

​

And this:

No. It goes on doing that for ever. It’s not a real fern: it’s a mathematical idealization of fern structure. The trees and bushes have the same infinitely fine repeating structure. And so, oddly enough, does the snow.’

~ Chapter 5, One and a Quarter Dimensions

​

‘Are you a real snowflake?’ asked Vikki. ‘No, no, not at all. If I were, then I wouldn’t be able to sunbathe - I’d melt.’ The snowflake paused, as if gathering its wits. ‘However, I do share a real snowflake’s sixfold symmetry, and if anything I am even more intricate, but my bodily form is much too regular for a true snowflake. Think of me as a visual pun.’

~ Chapter 5, One and a Quarter Dimensions

​

Now the Mathiverse portions sound like Low 1-A for encompassing all mathematical constructs and all physical lower structures with their geometrical nature. I don't really see cases above it. Some grounds have 1-A, but everything is explained by Low 1-A.

“Time doesn't exist” is explained by the fact that Low 1-A is beyond time in a quantitative nature whether the nature of it is timeless or it occupies a timeless place.

I feel like I've seen the argument of this verse alongside its parent verse somehow being able to get a High 1-A+ rating based on the framework of ascending possibility, but that's contradictory since High 1-A+ isn't hierarchical and it hinges on encompassing hierarchy while operating based on pure logistic possibility that encompasses all framework of the Cosmology albeit being the apex. I'm neutral to agreeing on 1-A, neutral to disagreeing with High 1-A+, and agreeing with Low 1-A.

However, I'm seeing mentions of High 1-A+ structure in the form of the Mathiverse according to these comments. I know I briefly touched in detail but can I get the direct statements correlating to it(it seems I either missed it or ignored it, most likely the former), I did touch that it probably won't correlate to well to our current system.

Nevertheless, I want to see it and perhaps I could add more input for this portion.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I know I briefly touched in detail but can I get the direct statements correlating to it

it transcends Intelligence and Extelligence... it transcends Thought; it transcends Transcendence itself

The Mathiverse contains all formal descriptions of logical structures.
The Mathiverse contains all informal descriptions of illogical structures. If one day somebody managed to invent a new kind of thing, one that wasn’t a Space and wasn’t a Time but somehow belonged in the same category (and, now that you mention it, the Mathiverse contains all categories)... anyway, if somebody did what I’ve just said, then whatever they came up with would have been present in the Mathiverse all along. (Except, as you’ve guessed, ‘would’, ‘have’, ‘been’, ‘present’, and ‘in’ are the wrong words, and so are ‘all’ and ‘along’. We can probably accept ‘the’, though.)

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Yeah, my concern is the “transcending itself” part in which I already covered as being a bit of a grey area. High 1-A+ isn't hierarchical as much as it is purely functioning on logistics possibility. Plus, the vagueness of what “logical and illogical structure” is what gets me(since the latter isn't needed or else it'd be watered down since we don't take that sort of illogical-ness into account due to the paradoxical nature).

Considering that it doesn't take all that for it to be High 1-A+ then an established framework for 1-A is better there. In that, the Mathiverse is some layers into it or works purely as a High 1-A. I prefer the former since nothing else is supporting a framework of 1-A outside baseline.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

what about the quote of the Planiturthians being "realer" and such. Would that scale em anywhere?

I dont think they are realer than the Mathiverse, if thats what you mean. They are only realer than the simulation of the Mathiverse from the virtual engine. The narration calling us planiturthians seems to be just a 4th wall way of explaining how planiturthians are supposed to be humans in the story.

The explicit statements of Planiturthians living in a space contained by Mathiverse, and their creation of the Mathiverse being done only through ideation, makes me think they arent actually real in comparison to it.

That said, they are real in comparison to Spaceland it seems, so maybe 1-A, but Im not sure.

High 1-A+ isn't hierarchical as much as it is purely a logistics possibility.

What makes you think Mathiverse is part of a hierarchy here? The concept of "outside", "inside", "all", "transcend", and anything related do not apply to it, so you cant say that it is "bigger" than something for it be part of a hierarchy. It is inapplicable to those very notions, so it would "transcend" (wrong word) anything related to a hierarchy.

Plus, the vagueness of what “logical and illogical structure” is what gets me

I dont see whats vague here. It literally says any logical and illogical description would be "contained" by it, even going as far as to give an example that any arbitrary proposition or description we make being something that has always existed "inside" it. The meaning and intention behind those statements are clear.

 

[AmogusSusfunni]

That said, they are real in comparison to Spaceland it seems, so maybe 1-A, but Im not sure.

That's what I meant to ask about yeah

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

What makes you think Mathiverse is part of a hierarchy here? The concept of "outside", "inside", "all", and anything related does not apply to it, so you cant say that it is "bigger" than something for it be part of a hierarchy. It is inapplicable to those very notions, so it would "transcend" (wrong word) any relation of it.

I dont see whats vague here. It literally says any logical and illogical description would be "contained" by it, even goign as far to give an example that any arbitrary proposition or description we make being something that has always existed "inside" it. The meaning behind those statements are clear.

So it’s not always “transcending?” I know you bolded it “transcends transcendence” but that's really just a fancy poetic device in my opinion.

I see it as if you take my statement of it always “transcending” as implying that there's a framework of meta-qualities it encompasses unless the High 1-A+ you notioned is the second variant as the space of “all logical possibilities” which I guess is fine where it only requires that description.

The supporting evidence is fine I guess. So there is some implication since it does explain what the “logical structure” is. So would say these “possibilities” are separate from the quantative nature of the structures below? As not some sort of quasi-equivalent but the nature of things governed by the laws of thought? I'm still really not convinced, but I’m pretty sure Ultima gotta weigh his opinion on the matter. I'm not in full disagreement here and some of the evidence is decently convincing, but it requires Ultima or perhaps Agnaa or DT. I'm pretty sure Ultima is decent with the Mathiverse which was pretty good for the system previously when quantitative and qualitative differences were practically one and the same.

 

[AmogusSusfunni]

After thinking about it for a while I've changed the scaling of some structures.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

While I'm at it which I wasn't to convinced of. There's also something that sprang into my mind about mathematics with the old system. Then I realized that a similar verse that functioned with almost the same certainty as this one was downgraded despite being 0 in the previous one. This verse was SRE(Which was often described as the most powerful verse alongside SCP, World of Darkness, and comparable verses). This didn't spring to my mind originally but it came as the arguments went on and it didn't help convince me any less of the tier.

Of course, this isn't SRE so obviously context and setting of a verse matters, but this was additional reason why I was weary and skeptical of what was represented as for the evidence for High 1-A+(Which I still find as weak). Low 1-A is the obvious one for here(for me) with more than a likely certainty for 1-A.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I'm still really not convinced, but I’m pretty sure Ultima gotta weigh his opinion on the matter.

Sure.

While I'm at it which I wasn't to convinced of. There's also something that sprang into my mind about mathematics with the old system. Then I realized that a similar verse that functioned with almost the same certainty as this one was downgraded despite being 0 in the previous one. This verse was SRE(Which was often described as the most powerful verse alongside SCP, World of Darkness, and comparable verses). This didn't spring to my mind originally but it came as the arguments went on and it didn't help convince me any less of the tier.

Of course, this isn't SRE so obviously context and setting of a verse matters, but this was additional reason why I was weary and skeptical of what was represented as for the evidence for High 1-A+(Which I still find as weak). Low 1-A is the obvious one for here(for me) with more than a likely certainty for 1-A.

Im not quite sure what you are trying to say here. Seems like an argument from disbelief.

Also, Ultima said SRE (the character) would be a textbook example of High 1-A+.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Im not quite sure what you are trying to say here. Seems like an argument from disbelief.

Several higher tiers were downgraded with the established framework of their Multiverse being non-qualtiative property. The blog similarly shows that all structure encompasses by Mathiverse are also functioning as just quantitative structures. You can obviously leap with High 1-A+ but the evidence is all lacking and quite weak, personally speaking.

Also, Ultima said SRE (the character) would be a textbook example of High 1-A+.

The waterness of “possible stories and all these hierarchies” sort of is the reason why it wouldn't be. The lesser states this:

(Comprises all possible character strings, containing all sentences formed by a combination of symbols both in formal and natural languages, with both the Giant and Hypergiant Corpora of Knowledge, as well as the infinite levels above both, being just a part of a single story amidst this collection, which the Self-Reference ENGINE brings into existence through its storytelling, acting as the driving force of everything while simultaneously being completely nonexistent and unknowable)

Sounds crazy on paper, sure but it hardly has any description for High 1-A+. The bolded part is High 1-B+ but of course being above the previous two(the higher of the two being Low 1-A) would kind of just add more space to it which would give it 1-A to maybe 1-A+. So if that were the case the second type could just be more layers into 1-A+ or High 1-A.

Ultima can disprove this but as it stands the Mathiverse looks like Low 1-A or 1-A based on being able to encompass all dimensional space(Low 1-A) and being beyond any form of the lower realm(1-A).

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Several higher tiers were downgraded with the established framework of their Multiverse being non-qualtiative property. The blog similarly shows that all structure encompasses by Mathiverse are also functioning as just quantitative structures. You can obviously leap with High 1-A but the evidence is all lacking and quite weak, personally speaking.

High 1-A+ works independently of existing cosmology. Star Maker (Verse) has no stated 1-A structures in it yet Star Maker (character) got accepted as High 1-A+.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

High 1-A+ works independently of existing cosmology. Star Maker (Verse) has no 1-A structures in it yet Star Maker (character) got accepted as High 1-A+.

I literally mentioned you can leap with High 1-A+(The only thing missing was adding the “+” modifier in my original statement, but obviously, it should have come to your mind. It was missing because I forgot to add it):

Several higher tiers were downgraded with the established framework of their Multiverse being non-qualtiative property. The blog similarly shows that all structure encompasses by Mathiverse are also functioning as just quantitative structures. You can obviously leap with High 1-A but the evidence is all lacking and quite weak, personally speaking.

Also, Star Maker is the basic template for High 1-A+ with evidence that only seems to apply to High 1-A+. So, it’s pretty obvious why it got that tier. Also, due to my statement above you assert my stance that I believed “1-A was needed for High 1-A+ just because I said it was more believable that it recive 1-A. That's also not counting you completely ignoring what I said that “High 1-A+ aren't hierarchical and they can leap from whatever possibilities they are and in which they contains all extensions of hierarchy(if said hierarchy exist). I also said High 1-A+(Type 2) relies more on description rather than anything else.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I literally mentioned you can leap with High 1-A+(The only thing missing was adding the “+” modifier in my original statement, but obviously, it should have come to your mind.

Hey, it's not my fault you confused me. Either way, it's best if we wait for more staff input here at this point.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Hey, it's not my fault.

This is derailing but it was pretty obvious that “High 1-A+ can leap” has no other meaning.

To get back to another about me mentioning the downgrade of some of the SRE beings. Do note that I don't truly believe that this would have a major effect since comparing cosmology isn't a good idea hence why I said “context and setting matters.”However, what I do see is you're also doing this with the Star Maker. It’s just that their description is that much better and way more clear on why they receive the tier. It doesn't discredit the Mathiverse, but it certainly does make the point that the evident comparison isn't exactly the best.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Regardless, I'll ping Ultima so that he can eventually check this thread (or not)

@Ultima_Reality Your input is needed here.

 

[Antvasima]

Goofy seems to make sense to me here.

What tiers do you suggest to be applied here?

Also:

@Ultima_Reality @DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Agnaa @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @Planck69 @Everything12 @Ovy7 @Rakih_Elyan @IdiosyncraticLawyer @RatherClueless @GrathOfLux @Udlmaster

Your input would be appreciated here.

 

[Agnaa]

In regards to Planiturthians, they can still be lower than the Mathiverse even if they have created it. It's kinda like the concept of collective unconsciousness. For example, in SMT humanity's collective thoughts involuntarily created YHVH but those normal humans arent 1-A inherently.

It would be the same case here. The collective mind of Planiturthians created the Mathiverse, but they are still explicitly contained and transcended by the latter.

No, that needs actual substance to be the case.

A lower-than 1-A thing cannot create a 1-A or above thing in any way, without help from a 1-A or above thing. That's the most core anti-feat in our new system.

SMT may avoid this by having some system of the verse which is superior to YHVH, and which references the thoughts of normal humans when deciding what to create.

Nothing like that has been established in Mathiverse, afaik. So if Planiturthians created the Mathiverse, yet are still a subset of it, then this cosmology cannot be 1-A or above.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

No, that needs actual substance to be the case.

A lower-than 1-A thing cannot create a 1-A or above thing in any way, without help from a 1-A or above thing. That's the most core anti-feat in our new system.

SMT may avoid this by having some system of the verse which is superior to YHVH, and which references the thoughts of normal humans when deciding what to create.

Nothing like that has been established in Mathiverse, afaik. So if Planiturthians created the Mathiverse, yet are still a subset of it, then this cosmology cannot be 1-A or above.

What’s your overall consensus about the ratings?

 

[Agnaa]

What’s your overall consensus about the ratings?

Don't have one, I didn't have time to read the entirety of this, but I saw the SMT comparison, asked some people about it without getting satisfactory answers, and so made that post in hope of either getting a satisfactory answer, or stopping it from getting any rating at 1-A or above.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that it seems illogical for a setting solely based on mathematics to exceed tier Low 1-A.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

No, that needs actual substance to be the case.

A lower-than 1-A thing cannot create a 1-A or above thing in any way, without help from a 1-A or above thing. That's the most core anti-feat in our new system.

SMT may avoid this by having some system of the verse which is superior to YHVH, and which references the thoughts of normal humans when deciding what to create.

Nothing like that has been established in Mathiverse, afaik. So if Planiturthians created the Mathiverse, yet are still a subset of it, then this cosmology cannot be 1-A or above.

That wasnt an argument for justifying 1-A or higher. It was about Planiturthians having the same tier of the Mathiverse or not. I asked Ultima if the self-referential paradox would be an antifeat (since its not a conventional situation) but he never answered me. Since you did, Im fine with just Low 1-A for now.

 

[Reiner04]

Since there is anti-feat towards 1-A or anything above, Low 1-A is fine.

 

[Re5yh]

High 1-A+ is very good for Mathiverse but all we need to do is to delete Ultima's Blog so we can create the profile:

The Mathiverse

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

High 1-A+ is very good for Mathiverse but all we need to do is to delete Ultima's Blog so we can create the profile:

The Mathiverse

vsbattles.fandom.com

No, it’s not a good rating with less than satisfactory evidence to support it.