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2-A Loli Azura

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If the profile has been updated to Low 2-C, I think that we can close this.
 
Alright. Durability's kinda "eh" as well, but I really couldn't care, right now.

Edit: To clarify a bit, I'm referring primarily to the fact that her durability suggests that this dream world exploded or was destroyed with a Low 2-C attack or something, which doesn't appear to be the case. It seems to have just kind of...stopped existing? And I'm not sure that should count as a durability feat, especially without so much as a "possibly".
 
Okay. What do you think about the durability Medeus and JSW?
 
The way I see it, the dream world Adult Azura and Young Azura created are the same. A-Azura created the DW when she was a kid, and later ended it. Meanwhile, Y-Azura creates the DW as she's in the same circumstances as A-Azura when she herself was a kid. Even without Loki's intervention, Y-Azura would have ended the DW since they are the same person. And it's more than likely that, somewhere else, another kid Azura creates the DW from her sadness, then later ends it. Rinse and repeat.

Y-Azura created the DW bc of her sadness and loneliness. Loki pops up and says the DW has infinite worlds within it. Wouldn't that mean Y-Azura created infinite worlds, unconsciously? It looks like Y-Azura originally believed the DW is a single place, but Loki reveals it contains infinite worlds within it.

Also, while A-Azura says she's going to end the DW, during the conversation between Loki and Alfonse between 12:09 and the end, the background indicates the DW is still there. She likely ends it after everyone's ready to leave and Y-Azura has stopped crying.
 
"The way I see it, the dream world Adult Azura and Young Azura created are the same."

This was never debated.

"Loki pops up and says the DW has infinite worlds within it."

This is what the entire argument is based around, and we just had several dozen comments discussing it.
 
Yeah, I know. I read through the whole thread. Is the problem that, aside from Loki saying there are infinite worlds, there is no other showing of that being the case?
 
Of infinite worlds?

Alfonse suggests there are countless other worlds and "realms sprawling infinitely", but Hans argued these aren't the same worlds mentioned by Loki in one of the comments above.

In "Before We Met...", young Azura says "If the worlds are infinite, as I was told...", which references what Loki told her.

Those are the two that have been posted here.

Infinite worlds would seem pretty safe, from my end. The issue is more that no one has shown Azura actually created these infinite worlds yet, with adult Azura even mentioning that young Azura does not have the kind of power to create the Tempest, which JSW mentioned above was 2-C. The core of the issue has less been the verse's cosmology and more so getting proof that someone can affect the infinite worlds of the multiverse.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Alfonse suggests there are countless other worlds and "realms sprawling infinitely", but Hans argued these aren't the same worlds mentioned by Loki in one of the comments above. [...] The issue is more that no one has shown Azura actually created these infinite worlds yet
Click to expand...
Loki is referring to the infinite worlds inside the DW, not the infinite worlds outside it. Because when Loki says "here", she's inside the DW. When Alfonse said "there are countless worlds/realms sprawl infinitely", he was outside the DW, and was referring to outside-the-DW infinite realms, since he didn't know the DW even existed back when he said that.
 
Again, a huge part of this conversation is about proving the place with infinite realms is the same one that Azura mentions creating, which sufficient proof was never provided for. It makes no sense when after adult Azura says she has to end the dream world, only the one she was in (a single variation of the world as opposed to an infinite number) seems to end, and the area Loki was in remains entirely unchanged.

It also makes no sense for young Azura to later mention how "If the worlds are infinite, as I was told..." if the area she was told had infinite worlds had ceased to exist immediately after that mission. Loki's dialogue about having an eternity to play, which was in reference to how time was infinite because the worlds there were infinite, also wouldn't make much sense.

This is the crux of the issue, and almost all evidence given for Azura creating this space with infinite worlds has been "I believe it to be so", which isn't helpful if much more clear information exists outside of this. Especially since, as I stated, much of the dialogue doesn't make sense if this area of infinite worlds was the one Azura created which suddenly stopped existing.

I must again state that I'm not saying "there's no way this character can possibly be 2-A", but if they are, much better proof is needed for this rating to be put on the page.
 
Ok, I see the issue. That's fair.

Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
proving the place with infinite realms is the same one that Azura mentions creating
Click to expand...
Just about this, do you mean adult Azura? She says in the beginning that she recognizes this DW, it being the same one she herself created when she was a kid.
 
Yeah. My issue is with that being the same place as the one Loki referred to as having infinite worlds, especially since adult Azura only references a single world, the area that supposedly had infinite worlds is fine after this, and the other contextual stuff I mentioned on top of this.

I don't doubt Tier 2, just 2-A.
 
Whule I'm neutral on this threads conclusion...

@GoldenScorpions Can you link that statement ? It seems to be the backbone of the argument against the upgrade, and having direct evidence for it should help the upgrade go through.
 
@Seed

It's been linked several times. The issue is that it isn't used to refer to the place young Azura and Loki were in. It was used to refer to "a world" that was a different place, when the place the other two were in was stated to contain infinite worlds, as well as effectively endless versions of Azura.
 
A-Azura confirms the DW Y-Azura created is the exact same one as the one the herself created when she herself was a kid. This is just a repeat of events from an Azura from a different timeline, which will keep happening again and again with the infinite versions of Azuras who will all create a DW before shutting it down after growing up.
Lolizura
Considering A-Azura says how she "doesn't remember it very well", it may just be she doesn't remember the infinite worlds part of it... Or, more likely, she doesn't even know there are infinite worlds inside the DW. After all, Y-Azura didn't know that either until Loki told it to her.

Loki speaking of having an eternity to play, may refer to how, exactly because there is an Azura in each of the infinite worlds, she could redo the process of trying to get another young Azura to her side and "playing" with her.

I understand the whole confusion. A lot of the dialogue can be taken in different ways, thus leaving some things up to interpretation.
 
So, about the durability? After settling that part, we can probably finish this.
 
>"The way I see it, the dream world Adult Azura and Young Azura created are the same." >This was never debated.

Excuse me but what the hell. I did show you scans that claim Adult azura claimed the dream world she was in was the same as the dream world she created when she was litttle.

My last argument was that even if they were not the same dream world, the creation of a 2-A realm was still a 2-A feat. If they were the same or even if Azura is even able to destroy it is irrelevant.

Young Azura's power to instantly summon any version of herself that she wants (all Azura forms released to date), is still missing from her profile.
 
For her durability, while you could argue that because it's her dream world, she has absolute power in it, and thus absolute durability, nothing exactly proves it.


I think her durability should be 9-A. She's never shown tanking anything higher than attacks by other Heroes. We know she can "shut off" the DW, but it doesn't have any concrete proof she can tank power of that magnitude.
 
Oh yeah, i suppose. 9-A is reasonable since the Azura that created it seems the same within it too. But, since it is linked to her life, you could argue that the dream world could shut down with the opponent still on it, and thus, could lead to an inconclusive if they cannot exit it after killing the main Azura.

And i insist that i have indeed proven (with 2 statements stating it to be so, @8:33 and 6:11) beyond a reasonable doubt that the dream world is a 2-A construct and that the 2-A rating does hold water. And i do declare again, that i have absolutely no idea what in the world Azaroth is talking about when he claims what ive proven here is "baseless" when his arguments against it are based on him confusing the Outside world and the dream world.
 
@Hans

I would appreciate if you permanently drop the subject. Azathoth has explained to you in simple terms over and over and over. If you still do not understand, it is not remotely his fault. Please stop wasting his time, or we might have to suspect that you are doing this deliberately.
 
Fine. Sorry for the trouble.

Am i at least allowed to make a blog about the subject? I am still unsatisfied with the discussion thus far.
 
No, sorry, but you are not. You have wasted enough of the staff's time on this.
 
Got it.

Sorry if i ended up being annoying, i just, felt that there was still a lot of doubts that needed to be solved.

But that's it.
 
So is somebody knowledgeable willing to revise the durability before we close this thread?
 
It would waste our time even more, and Azathoth is probably nearly tearing his hair out in frustration at this point, so no, definitely not. We have already dealt with this subject far more extensively than necessary here. Let's finish the durability revision, and then permanently end this discussion.
 
@JSW

Okay. Feel free to update the page accordingly then.
 
I think this should be removed/edited:

  • Dream World: Azura can create a realm containing infinite boundless worlds within it, alongside creating replicas of her relatives to fight on her side, she can bring the opponent into this world and destroy it at will.
 
Nedge1000 said:
I think this should be removed/edited:
  • Dream World: Azura can create a realm containing infinite boundless worlds within it, alongside creating replicas of her relatives to fight on her side, she can bring the opponent into this world and destroy it at will.
Click to expand...
So based on a edit, she would also lose her Acausality Type 3 since it was based on the 2-A rating
 
From I believe it is that infinite worlds statement are inconsistent with past-Azura and present Azura in the game
 
Even if Past (Adult) Azura's dream world doesnt contain infinite timelines for some reason, Young Azura's a 2-A creation feat on its own.

And, it is not inconsistent, as it was stated twice and it is explained why it doesnt affect the rest of the plot.
 
It's more likely that Adult Azura's dream world also contained infinite timelines, but she didn't know about it. After all, Loki is the one who revealed it
 
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