Daewi VS Garou (0-0-8)

[Phoenks]

A battle between those who have borrowed the power of divine entities.

Blessed with mastery of all forces in the cosmos.

One hopes to restore the world, while the other aims to destroy it.

Daewi Han, King of Humanity... ~VS~ Garou, Absolute Evil....

Terms and Conditions:

• Peak Daewi Han is used against base Awakened Garou.
• Garou has 1 second of preparation to enter Mode: Daewi via Power Mimicry. This is to allow them to start at the same tier (4-B), and not result in a one-shot.
• Speed is equalized.

Now, will the world be saved... or destroyed?

 

[SeijiSetto]

Daewi has a cooler haircut gg.

 

[azontr]

Following.

Will wait for arguments for Garou before saying anything for Daewi.

 

[Phoenks]

The first argument that needs to be had here, is of course... Garou's cosmic radiation.

Yes, it is on the profile that it scales vastly above basic cosmic radiation resistance. We all know the deal.

I'm assuming Daewi has a counter to this passive, however.

 

[SeijiSetto]

In theory Daewi could just say "lolno" with Weak Force since that's what causes radiation to happen.

 

[azontr]

Daewi knows how to use Natural Forces on his own body, so assuming he isn't instantly killed, he could create an energy shield with something like Weak Force around his body to negate it.

 

[Phoenks]

Well, assuming Daewi doesn't get affected via a weak force energy shield or something else...

Garou's first move here is going to be martial arts and nuclear punches. The same as he did verses Saitama.

His martial arts also come equipped with things like shockwave vibrations that can deconstruct people's bones and destroy organs upon impact.

What's Daewi's first move?

 

[azontr]

What's Daewi's first move?

Infusing his body with Fundamental Forces and incorporating into his Martial Arts. On contact, he'll immediately hit his opponent with one of the fundamental forces, such as using attraction to pull his opponent into an attack to increase his damage, for example.

This will also include things like Strong and Weak Force, which can destroy shit with matter jargon.

 

[Epiccheev]

Daewi has a cooler haircut gg.

Having an even more doodoo hairstyle than Garou would be more impressive tbh, dude is like a pre-balding Heihachi.

 

[Phoenks]

Infusing his body with Fundamental Forces and incorporating into his Martial Arts. On contact, he'll immediately hit his opponent with one of the fundamental forces, such as using attraction to pull his opponent into an attack to increase his damage, for example.

This will also include things like Strong and Weak Force, which can destroy shit with matter jargon.

This is where we start getting into theoretical territory in this match.

Garou, with his knowledge on forces and starting with Mode: Daewi, would technically just have access to the same things. Not through an Inheritance of his borrowed power, but just the capability to do the same things with the fundamental forces.

So, with the matter manipulation stuff, it's likely that Garou will just do the exact same thing when he does.

Same with all the fundamental force shenanigans. Garou will assimilate the techniques he sees into his martial arts upon a glance. Same way he did against Blast, for example.

Now, if Daewi does start with martial arts. It is quite dangerous for him because of Garou's vibration shockwave organ targeting stuff. Does Daewi have moves for a solid counter?

 

[Maitreya12]

Well, assuming Daewi doesn't get affected via a weak force energy shield or something else...

Garou's first move here is going to be martial arts and nuclear punches. The same as he did verses Saitama.

His martial arts also come equipped with things like shockwave vibrations that can deconstruct people's bones and destroy organs upon impact.

What's Daewi's first move?

His first move is generally to increase the gravity onto his opponents (by up to 10,000x)

Daewi has also been in direct proximity to the strong nuclear force so radiation shouldn’t give him much of an issue, especially with the sage’s robe.

 

[azontr]

Same with all the fundamental force shenanigans. Garou will assimilate the techniques he sees into his martial arts upon a glance. Same way he did against Blast, for example.

He's not seeing the forces. Daewi is just putting them into his fist.

 

[SeijiSetto]

His first move is generally to increase the gravity onto his opponents (by up to 10,000x)

Daewi has also been in direct proximity to the strong nuclear force so radiation shouldn’t give him much of an issue, especially with the sage’s robe.

Radiation comes from weak nuclear force. Strong nuclear force is what holds quarks together to make protons/neutrons/etc., and what holds those together to make atom nuclei.

 

[azontr]

His first move is generally to increase the gravity onto his opponents (by up to 10,000x)

Daewi has also been in direct proximity to the strong nuclear force so radiation shouldn’t give him much of an issue, especially with the sage’s robe.

Current Daewi doesn't do this against opponents equal to (or stronger) than him.

It's shown in his fight with Ryong that he'll opt for H2H when he knows he can't just gravity crush his opponent with no effort.

 

[Phoenks]

He's not seeing the forces. Daewi is just putting them into his fist.

He doesn't need to "see" them since he just has an inherent sense and understanding of cosmic forces and energy. Especially after doing "Mode: Daewi"

His first move is generally to increase the gravity onto his opponents (by up to 10,000x)

Considering Garou is fine at the center of a black hole, which has infinite gravity, I doubt this would do much even if he does start with that.

 

[Maitreya12]

Current Daewi doesn't do this against opponents equal to (or stronger) than him.

It's shown in his fight with Ryong that he'll opt for H2H when he knows he can't just gravity crush his opponent with no effort.

I think generally Daewi starts out with gravity and then when it doesn’t work he moves on to his other martial arts or combative moves. like with Ryong he started out using his gravity until he realized it didn’t work.

It also should be noted that Daewi can also call upon the blade of tathagata and of course Haetae for this fight as well.

 

[azontr]

He doesn't need to "see" them since he just has an inherent sense and understanding of cosmic forces and energy. Especially after doing "Mode: Daewi"

Modes don't have anything to do with Garou's cosmic forces stuff. He doesn't immediately understand all of his opponents abilities by entering a Mode.

 

[Phoenks]

Modes don't have anything to do with Garou's cosmic forces stuff. He doesn't immediately understand all of his opponents abilities by entering a Mode.

"Garou has gained knowledge on the behavior of all forces and flow of all energy in the universe."

This is the part that's important. As well as him automatically being able to understand and copy blasts abilities.

I'm just saying that in "Mode: Daewi" he would have a good understanding of what Daewi is doing.

 

[SeijiSetto]

It also should be noted that Daewi can also call upon the blade of tathagata and of course Haetae for this fight as well.

This Daewi, as opposed to his Pre-TS self, can heal both with Haetae's tears and by using the creation part of the King's power, like when he restored Peach's hand, right?

 

[azontr]

"Garou has gained knowledge on the behavior of all forces and flow of all energy in the universe."

This is the part that's important. As well as him automatically being able to understand and copy blasts abilities.

I'm just saying that in "Mode: Daewi" he would have a good understanding of what Daewi is doing.

And I am just saying that the cosmic forces and the ability two enter Modes are to entirely separate abilities.

Modes allow Garou to replicate his opponents strength and speed. His understanding of cosmic forces is what allows him to copy abilities. By entering a Mode, he does not immediately know his opponent's abilities. He didn't enter "Mode: Blast" when he copied Blast.

That is my point.

 

[Maitreya12]

This Daewi, as opposed to his Pre-TS self, can heal both with Haetae's tears and by using the creation part of the King's power, like when he restored Peach's hand, right?

Yes. He’s actively shown to be able to regenerate himself in his fight against Mujin

 

[Phoenks]

And I am just saying that the cosmic forces and the ability to enter Modes are to entirely separate abilities.

Modes allow Garou to replicate his opponents strength and speed. His understanding of cosmic forces is what allows him to copy abilities. By entering a Mode, he does not immediately know his opponent's abilities. He didn't enter "Mode: Blast" when he copied Blast.

That is my point.

Well going back to the argument, which was that Garou can't copy Daewi because he can't "see" Daewi's attacks.

Another thing, he doesn't actually need to see attacks to copy them either. He just has to sense them. He can do that even in his sleep, and before he became Cosmic Garou. (This was with martial arts, but given that Cosmic Garou amplified his mimicry ability specifically, that should now extend to abilities such as Daewi's which utilize universal forces)

That, along with Garou just being able to sense energy and forces inherently with cosmic knowledge, should be enough to prove that he can copy Daewi's fundamental force shenanigans even if they appear invisible to the eye.

 

[azontr]

I don't agree with extending Garou's Martial Arts copying to his fundamental force copying. They have no shown correlation to each other that would warrant that conclusion. Assuming that is just pure conjecture.

 

[Epiccheev]

I don't agree with extending Garou's Martial Arts copying to his fundamental force copying. They have no shown correlation to each other that would warrant that conclusion. Assuming that is just pure conjecture.

Just trust me, bro

 

[Phoenks]

I don't agree with extending Garou's Martial Arts copying to his fundamental force copying. They have no shown correlation to each other that would warrant that conclusion. Assuming that is just pure conjecture.

It isn't pure conjecture.

In chapter 165, it directly infers that it is Garou's mimicry and "absorption" has now been amplified to the level of being able to mimic even the forces in the universe.

You can read it for yourself, if you don't believe me.

 

[Recon1511]

Following

 

[Maitreya12]

Daewi can also add Recoiless into his natural forces infused martial arts which is something Garou can’t copy

 

[azontr]

It isn't pure conjecture.

In chapter 165, it directly infers that it is Garou's mimicry and "absorption" has now been amplified to the level of being able to mimic even the forces in the universe.

You can read it for yourself, if you don't believe me.

I have read chapter 165 before, as all as the entirety of the Cosmic Garou fight. If it's not trouble, could you point out the specific scans that support your claim? I have the chapter pulled up.

 

[Phoenks]

I have read chapter 165 before, as all as the entirety of the Cosmic Garou fight. If it's not trouble, could you point out the specific scans that support your claim? I have the chapter pulled up.

Specifically just these two panels here.



Along with this:



Given that we know Garou can copy what he understands.

It is not at all just pure conjecture to say he inherently knows how to mimic forces he senses.

That is what these panels are trying to spell out for us, and what he layer proves in literally the next few pages.

Because of the understanding he has from God, and God's power amplifying his already unique capabilities for mimicry and technique absorption, he can now copy and utilize those forces and energies in his techniques.

Even extending those those who also use similar powers, such as Blast.

So I don't think it is unreasonable to say Daewi would be subjected to the same treatment.

 

[One-Mastor]

Following

 

[Recon1511]

I mean like, the first things he does with this new knowledge is replicate nuclear explosions with his fists and then create a Gamma Ray Burst

 

[azontr]

Okay.

I still don't fully agree with that conclusion but for the sake of argument, let's continue under the assumption that Garou can indeed copy Daewi's ability to fundamental forces. Two problems.

He can't copy Daewi's use of them, which is to incorporate them into his recoilless Martial Arts, which is skills that even characters with Technique Mimicry can't copy. So their movements will be wildly different from one another.

The other problem, is that Garou isn't resistant to these fundamental forces. In fact, even characters that resist fundamental forces (Ryong) get one-shot by Daewi's strongest skills, the "Infinite Attacks", which fuses all 4 of the universal forces into a single skill, including Strong and Weak Force, being described as a "one-shot, one kill" attack. Which Daewi spams as much as he can.

 

[Phoenks]

He can't copy Daewi's use of them, which is to incorporate them into his recoilless Martial Arts, which is skills that even characters with Technique Mimicry can't copy. So their movements will be wildly different from one another.

I don't think you can compare this.

Garou is going to have an inherent understanding of what Daewi is doing due to his understanding of forces and energy.

So mimicking what he already understands should not be an issue. I don't believe the character he faced had such an ability like Garou's hyper awareness of things like that.

The other problem, is that Garou isn't resistant to these fundamental forces. In fact, even characters that resist fundamental forces (Ryong) get one-shot by Daewi's strongest skills, the "Infinite Attacks", which fuses all 4 of the universal forces into a single skill, including Strong and Weak Force, being described as a "one-shot, one kill" attack. Which Daewi spams as much as he can.

That's fine.

Does Daewi resist them? Because his profile doesn't really mention resistances.

Garou could just use the same things against him. Or even just use his basic martial arts for bone and organ destruction.

 

[Shmooply]

I'm not reading any of this, I'm just saying Daewi FRA because he's the goat.

 

[azontr]

Garou is going to have an inherent understanding of what Daewi is doing due to his understanding of forces and energy.

Having and understanding of what you're doing and doing it are entirely different things all together.

You can understand the concept behind being able to do something, but if you can't do it, you can't do it. Having this on a cosmic scale doesn't change nothing. Daewi resists Technique Mimicry, end of discussion.

Does Daewi resist them? Because his profile doesn't really mention resistances.

He uses them on himself simultaneously, so, he should have a resistance.

 

[Phoenks]

Having and understanding of what you're doing and doing it are entirely different things all together.

You can understand the concept behind being able to do something, but if you can't do it, you can't do it. Having this on a cosmic scale doesn't change nothing. Daewi resists Technique Mimicry, end of discussion.

If Garou understands the technique, he can mimic it. It's also just straight power mimicry, on top of it.

Daewi's resistance comes from people not being able to understand his technique. Garou would inherently understand it.

This is the key difference here.

Even if Garou can not mimic the precise technique he has, he is still going to just adapt and make his own technique with it

 

[azontr]

Daewi's resistance comes from people not being able to understand his technique. Garou would inherently understand it.

No, it doesn't. I don't understand where you read this or who exactly told you this, but being unable to copy Recoilless has nothing to do with not understanding the mechanism behind it.

 

[Phoenks]

No, it doesn't. I don't understand where you read this or who exactly told you this, but being unable to copy Recoilless has nothing to do with not understanding the mechanism behind it.

Okay, in this case, I will back up one step.

I will say Garou can copy Daewi's usage of physics/fundamental forces. I don't think this should be a subject of debate because at that point it's just mimicking the actual physics/forces/energies behind the technique (Something Garou can just inherently do by his lonesome), not the specific use of Daewi's technique, per say, since Daewi is resistant to technique copying.

I think Garou will find his own way to use it through his own knowledge and adaption. Similar to how he found his own way to use portal creation and gravity knuckle after mimicking it from Blast.

In which case, I believe that would make them around on par with one another while using the same manipulations of forces and energy. Considering how quickly Garou can master things and make it his own through assimilating it with his other techniques.

Can we agree on this?

 

[azontr]

I never disagreed that Garou would find his own potential application of them, of course. That was never my argument, just that Garou can never truly "replicate" Daewi's personal usage of the abilities due to his resistance.

If Garou comes up with his own unique skills, power to him. Never said he couldn't.

 

[Phoenks]

I never disagreed that Garou would find his own potential application of them, of course. That was never my argument, just that Garou can never truly "replicate" Daewi's personal usage of the abilities due to his resistance.

If Garou comes up with his own unique skills, power to him. Never said he couldn't.

Yeah I am just giving a summary of where we are right now. Making sure we are on the same page.

Assumptions made:

Daewi quickly finds a way to resist Garou's passive cosmic radiation > Garou can copy Daewi's manipulation of fundamental forces when he inevitably uses them > Both Garou and Daewi are around evenly matched when it comes to the manipulation of fundamental forces within their unique martial arts techiques.

Now, my next question is...

Why the hell aren't Daewi's resistances listed? Lmfao.

And aside from that, what is Daewi's answer to the shockwave vibration durability negation stuff.