Kamen Rider Blades VS Shizuku Yaegashi

[Nicetoderp]

-Post-Schnee Shizuku and Calibur Arc King Lion Daisenki Blades is used.

-Speed is equalized.

-Battle took place in the Bodukai Arena, the fighter are 15 meters away from one another.

-Otherwise SBA.

Swordsman of Water:

Isekai Heroine:

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Wow I just thought that it was a shame that she couldn't enter in the 8-B tournament just to suddenly find this, nice.

If there is no problem I want to use the few new things added to her in the recently accepted crts, they are minor things like some stamina and skill and instinct feats with the only new abilities being just instinctive reaction and good obversation ability (aka informatio analysis), there aren't still in the profile because I don't have my pc to edit but can easily show the scenes about it (which are very straightforward) along with the crts that added them if needed, so hope there is no problem with using them.

Aside from that what is the AP of Blade in this key? What are his standard moves? And in this key Fantastic Lion exhaust him as said in the weakness section?

In this key Shizuku is unquantifiable above 38 tons, the 19 ton feat happen in volume 4, while the Shizuku being used here is like vol 11, standard with any isekai or whatever, the characters get stronger. Shizuku not only becomes higher leveled, but also was strengthened by evolution magic, and not to mention Hajime boosted her weapons making them 2x stronger. With Limiter Removal she get a 3x buff so she is unquantifiable above 114 tons.

In this key her main moves are spatial or gravity cuts, mixed with shockwaves and wind and/or electric attacks, so how good is Blade gravity and spatial resistance? In this key Shizuku hax should have a few layers do to Hajime having made the sword various vols after he already obtained spatial and gravity magic and have deepened his mastery with them, on top of them been enchanted with evolution magic (info manip) to increase their potency a lot, so baseline resistance probably wouldn't be enough.

 

[Nicetoderp]

Aside from that what is the AP of Blade in this key?

His AP is massively over 34 tons due to this basically comparable to someone that casually stomping someone that can also casually stomping 34 tonner.

What are his standard moves? And in this key Fantastic Lion exhaust him as said in the weakness section?

Since the distance is basically melee he usually goes for swordplay mixed with firing water energy at the opponent, sometime causing torrent to occured beneath his opponent's feet and put them in a whirlpool for easy target. By the time he got King Lion Daisenki he have completely bypass this weakness.

how good is Blade gravity and spatial resistance

Should be comparable to Saber who completely no sold Calibur's Jaou Dragon attack which rend space already in Jaaku Dragon, and Jaou Dragon immensely increase the power of it. For gravity manip in episode one, like Saber he's able to completely no sold gravity manip that basically suck up the a city block or so in and she have to contest with his much higher LS.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

His AP is massively over 34 tons due to this basically comparable to someone that casually stomping someone that can also casually stomping 34 tonner.

Since the distance is basically melee he usually goes for swordplay mixed with firing water energy at the opponent, sometime causing torrent to occured beneath his opponent's feet and put them in a whirlpool for easy target. By the time he got King Lion Daisenki he have completely bypass this weakness.

Should be comparable to Saber who completely no sold Calibur's Jaou Dragon attack which rend space already in Jaaku Dragon, and Jaou Dragon immensely increase the power of it. For gravity manip in episode one, like Saber he's able to completely no sold gravity manip that basically suck up the a city block or so in and she have to contest with his much higher LS.

Then their base AP is probably equal but with Limiter Removal she would have a good advantage, although it said that with King Lion he turn 8-B+ so how high is his value to know the AP gap between King Lion and Limiter Removal.

With her instincts she probably would know to dodge before the water caught her (will post some scenes showing her instincts at the end of the post). The weakness the should be removed from the profile because is misleading.

Hmm, then maybe he resist the spatial cut? Not completely sure but I suppose he could withstand relatively well the dura neg part. The tricky part with her gravity manip is that she actually use it in ways that take advantage of the minor openings created by them (like use in her favor the surprise of her opponent when their gravity change or completely disappear, take advantage of the little slowing effect that the enemy suffer from the change in gravity even if they already were prepared for it, etc), which is why she is capable of use it effectively even against people with comparable or far better LS than her, although from what I readed in the thread against Raikou Blade LS wasn't supposed to be downgraded? Not that it matter much considering that he probably would still have better LS than current her in this key.

Also, Limiter Removal also amp her speed 3x and her thought process much futher than that, so she would have a good speed advantage with it. She use can chose to activate it continously or instead use in in brief burst so to make even harder for the opponent to get accustomed to her movements, which combined with her erratic movements and resistance to info analysis make extremely hard to follow and react to her (not even someone like Apostles who are far faster than her and are machines that analyze things between all of them could actually read her moves).

Instincts showings:

She settled into her stance, then prepared to launch her fastest attack. However, a second before she could, she felt shivers run down her spine. Trusting her instincts, she leaped to the side. Not even a second later, one of the cats’ tentacles shot through the spot she’d been standing. Vol 4, Chapter IV

Btw this cats iirc were invisible.

“Great job, Shizuku!” Kouki let out an elated whoop as he ran toward Shizuku. Shizuku grinned and responded in a rather happy, exited tone, then Kouki turned around to congratulate Ryutarou and the others, while Shizuku looked down at her palms. Some of the mud from the Clay Golem was smeared on them. She furrowed her brows and quickly wiped it off. However, even after her hands were clean, Shizuku’s expression was still grim.

“Shizuku.”

“Huh?”

Kouki’s voice brought Shizuku out of her musings. She gave a distracted reply; her every instinct was screaming to her that death was approaching from behind. She turned around, then saw a massive spider dangling from the ceiling. Its eight red eyes were fixated on her, and some poisonous-looking fluid was dripping from its clawed legs, which stood ready to pounce. Vol 3, Chapter III

This was just after kill a enemy with the appearance of her best friend and still was shocked.

I can do this! Shizuku thought to herself as she watched Tio suppress the other two apostles out of the corner of her eye. She’d made it past one apostle, and there were no others in her path.

“What!?”

A second later, though, chills ran down her spine and Shizuku reflexively threw herself to the side. A blast of silver light shot past where she’d been, leaving deep gouges in the ground. She’d evaded the first attack, but Shizuku’s instincts told her she wasn’t in the clear just yet.

As she rolled forward, a claymore thrust at the air inches behind her. She then crawled to the side on all fours, narrowly avoiding a barrage of silver feathers. Vol 11, Chapter II

And this was against Apostles who were faster and stronger than her on top of be capable of disintegrate her with one touch of their feathers.

 

[Nicetoderp]

although it said that with King Lion he turn 8-B+ so how high is his value to know the AP gap between King Lion and Limiter Removal.

That is King Lion AP. It's overall massively overpowered someone who is 34 tons. But he can continously increase his own power due to Nagare's special ability to constantly grow stronger with the more water it make, and Nagare make lots of water. Some of the Rider with comparable RPL can match the statistic amp of other Saber Riders (usually 3x like Espada), but it do take a bit. Also I have him start off as King Lion Daisenki.

Hmm, then maybe he resist the spatial cut? Not completely sure but I suppose he could withstand relatively well the dura neg part.

Basically base Calibur spetial rend < Jaou Dragon Calibur, this sort of principal apply to other Riders when they get stronger form.

The tricky part with her gravity manip is that she actually use it in ways that take advantage of the minor openings created by them (like use in her favor the surprise of her opponent when their gravity change or completely disappear, take advantage of the little slowing effect that the enemy suffer from the change in gravity even if they already were prepared for it, etc), which is why she is capable of use it effectively even against people with comparable or far better LS than her, although from what I readed in the thread against Raikou Blade LS wasn't supposed to be downgraded? Not that it matter much considering that he probably would still have better LS than current her in this key.

It could be troublesome if he was simply a melee fighter. Suiseiken Nagare, like every single Seiken, can shot out energy projectile at his enemy by swinging his sword, one could even see it as a sort of extension of his blade. He also have a gun with a decently large AoE. And the reason why he hasn't been downgrade yet because we have a revision coming from another series that is long overdue for a revision, and frankly the LS came from an official and reliable source in term of additions abilities and power to the Riders. But even then, he'll be comparable to this dude. And have it shown that her gravity hax completely bypass the resistance of opponent altogether by this point after the upgrade? It could be less effective against Blades for all we know.

Also, Limiter Removal also amp her speed 3x and her thought process much futher than that, so she would have a good speed advantage with it.

Not something he's not accustomed to. Both Espada and Kenzan can used their ability to briefly blitz their opponent or activate their finisher for a longer duration one for complete destruction. He sparred with them at a regular basis and despite him being at a clear disadvantages in term of speed and mobility he hasn't been considered the lesser of the two, even when the two of them are considered the most talenteds swordman of their generation.

Unlike the other Seiken wielders, he wasn't blessed with the greatest of talents in their generations like Espada and Kenzan, doesn't have years of experience like Slash and Buster, all of the above with Saikou or a freak like Saber. But he still managed to match most of their abilities through swordplay alone. Saikou is one of that case, despite the sheer gap in AP and he's outclass in term of abilities, basically Saikou is a flying sword with movement completely unrestricted from any sort of human movement, light ray attack that is borderline impossible to dodge, over millenniums of experience and also revered as the best swordman the Sword of Logos ever had with Saikou itself being one of the most powerful Seiken to ever exist, and he can copy opponent techniques by basically looking at then once. He somehow managed to last long enough to get a compliment out of him.

The times that he got stomp by enemies are Zoous, who have slaughtered his master, the previous wielder of Nagare, and he kept growing stronger the more he fight. And Durendal who completely annihilated Blades with his King Crimson spams and absurd AP gap.

He also have very high stamina couple with Low-Mid regen and damage reduction, he have what it take to truck through her attacks. While he might not be able to completely read them, nobody is perfect and he's willing to wait for the right moment. He can also amp his own AP even further by scanning Wonder Ride Book, which usually allow him to obliterate his peer if hit. Blades even got his own speed amp...even if it's not really impressive.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

That is King Lion AP. It's overall massively overpowered someone who is 34 tons. But he can continously increase his own power due to Nagare's special ability to constantly grow stronger with the more water it make, and Nagare make lots of water. Some of the Rider with comparable RPL can match the statistic amp of other Saber Riders (usually 3x like Espada), but it do take a bit. Also I have him start off as King Lion Daisenki.

So if I understand correctly King Lion AP is just upscaling from 34 without a concreate value? Because in that case Shizuku should retain his 3x AP advantage since as said before Shizuku herself scale massively above 38 tons since that itself is just a lowball. What I could understand is that he can close the gap the more water he make, but would take him some time to close it, which could be problematic though Shizuku style is trying to end the fights as faster aa she can because usually she fight against people that are well above her and/or that become stronger-faster extremely fast on top of special situations that don't give her time to waste.

It could be troublesome if he was simply a melee fighter. Suiseiken Nagare, like every single Seiken, can shot out energy projectile at his enemy by swinging his sword, one could even see it as a sort of extension of his blade. He also have a gun with a decently large AoE. And the reason why he hasn't been downgrade yet because we have a revision coming from another series that is long overdue for a revision, and frankly the LS came from an official and reliable source in term of additions abilities and power to the Riders. But even then, he'll be comparable to this dude. And have it shown that her gravity hax completely bypass the resistance of opponent altogether by this point after the upgrade? It could be less effective against Blades for all we know.


Not something he's not accustomed to. Both Espada and Kenzan can used their ability to briefly blitz their opponent or activate their finisher for a longer duration one for complete destruction. He sparred with them at a regular basis and despite him being at a clear disadvantages in term of speed and mobility he hasn't been considered the lesser of the two, even when the two of them are considered the most talenteds swordman of their generation.

Unlike the other Seiken wielders, he wasn't blessed with the greatest of talents in their generations like Espada and Kenzan, doesn't have years of experience like Slash and Buster, all of the above with Saikou or a freak like Saber. But he still managed to match most of their abilities through swordplay alone. Saikou is one of that case, despite the sheer gap in AP and he's outclass in term of abilities, basically Saikou is a flying sword with movement completely unrestricted from any sort of human movement, light ray attack that is borderline impossible to dodge, over millenniums of experience and also revered as the best swordman the Sword of Logos ever had with Saikou itself being one of the most powerful Seiken to ever exist, and he can copy opponent techniques by basically looking at then once. He somehow managed to last long enough to get a compliment out of him.

The energy projection is something most knights can do, specially the othe that have trained with her since they are elite, futhermore his friend Kouki against who he train and fight together in a daily basis can do that to a higher degree, like by that point Kouki only needed one swing to create a danmaku of light blades, shockwaves and air slashes. With her spatial cuts she could protect herself by cuting the space around herself and cancel the attacks.

Actually she specially in blitz her opponent so her skills and techniques focus in blitz people comparable to her like the other hero party members or the enemies she face, it just that since Limiter Removal have a clear and stated multiplier is that I just mentioned it, so on top of the 3x of Limiter Removal he will need to also face to moves.

This Shizuku scale in skill above people like Gahard (who without sight or hearing can dodge, block and counter a barrage of attacks from all directions from masters assassins) who is the strongest of a battle focused empire and Meld (who can easily fight against hordes of people stronger than him do to his skill in specialized in fight humanoid opponents) who is the strongest of a kindom on par with the empire, have mastered the Yaegashi style (that have hundreds of years) and surpassed her clan that have governed for hundreds of years all the japanese ninja clans as the strongest ninja clan (above legendaries clans like the Koga and the like), here is a more extensive explanation of what it mean to be above the Yaegashi clan. About facing people with thousands of years by this point she have only fought against the Apostles, and despite the insane stats difference between them she could defeat them in skill (though do to the durability gap she was practically unable to even scratch them with her sword, though well she use was capable to still damage them with martial arts that ignored durability), the Apostles are characters comparable in skill to vol 6 Hajime and in their battle they were fighting without thinking just by pure instincts (this was just a fragment of their fight):

Hajime and Noint continued dancing around each other, dodging and trading blows. They fought to the utmost limits of their abilities, each trying to land a decisive blow. Their concentration was so absolute that they both forgot to breathe, to blink.

“Uwooooooooooooh!”

“Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!”

The two screamed at each other as they charged again.

A single mistake, a single lapse in concentration meant instant death.

They were moving so fast that there was no time to even think. They simply moved on instinct, trusting in their abilities, experience, and reflexes to carry them through.

Streaks of silver and crimson light dotted the sky as Noint’s swords and Hajime’s guns clashed over and over.

The storm of blows unleashed pulses of energy like a solar flare. The two continued speeding up, each trying to gain an edge over the other.

Before long, they were both drenched in blood, covered in a dozen small wounds. Hajime had shallow cuts all over his body, while Noint had bullet holes everywhere. Vol 6, Chapter III

Shizuku also scale far above Liliana who despite be one of the most non-combatant wives of Hajime (reason of why she don't even have a profile) learned entire styles like aikido, judo and such by just see youtube videos (lol). People of Hajime group level also are capable of learn and improve techinques-martial arts-styles after see them one, (Hajime copying Oscar transmutation ability, Yue learning Miledi gravity magic, Kaori learning Meiru restoration magic, those can be found in this crt if you search with ctrl+F Short Stories, Chapter IV), Shia for example can learn entire martial styles based in the vague descriptions of Hajime in some hours or possibly few days:

Veteran adventurers that they were, no one asked Hajime how he knew that. Instead, they just simply drew their weapons and shouted out warnings to the adventurers farther back. A second later, thirty or so bandits crested a nearby hill and loosed battle cries as they charged toward the caravan. The merchants hurriedly retreated to the safety of their wagons while the adventurers prepared to fight. But before they could loose any spells or arrows, Hajime held out a hand to stop them. They shot him confused looks, but Hajime ignored them and turned to Shea.

“Shea, these guys are the perfect training dummies to test your martial arts on. Wipe them out.”

“Huh? Ummm, you mean by myself?”

“Yeah, by yourself.”

“Barehanded?”

“Yep.”

The other adventurers gave Hajime incredulous looks. Surely he wasn’t going to ask a single rabbit girl to take on thirty bandits all by herself? Even those who had an inkling of how strong Shea really was were aghast. “He’s a demon...” they muttered to themselves. As expected, Shea didn’t seem too keen on the idea.

“Shea. I’ll consider rewarding you if—”

“Hell yeaaaaaaaaaah! Bring it on, *******!”

Hajime didn’t even get to finish saying, “you beat them all” before Shea cut him off. She turned to face the charging bandits and, with a fearless smile, slammed her fists together, creating a massive shockwave. A huge gust of wind rippled outward, and the bandits all turned to Shea. A vulgar smile spread across their leader’s face.

“Oi, don’t lay a finger on that white-haired kid’s bunny, you louts. I’m gonna make her my—”

“Dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!”

Before he could finish his statement, Shea dashed up to him and punched him in the face with all her might. He was lifted into the air and sent flying past the far side of the hill. Shea had leaped forward with such force that there was a crater where she’d been standing a moment before. The other bandits shivered in fear. But they quickly recovered their wits. While Shea’s punch may have been powerful, they were certain they could take her as long as they surrounded her and fought cautiously. In response, Shea dropped into a proper stance. She kept her hands high, near her face, with one foot slightly raised off the ground. One of the bandits charged her, his sword held high. But before he could swing it down on her, Shea fired off a lightning-quick front kick. It hit the poor bandit with the force of a cannonball.

“Bwaaagh!?”

His eyes rolled up into his skull and he lost consciousness. But Shea wasn’t done yet. Before the bandit could hit the ground, she followed up with a powerful left hook to the chin. The bandit flew backward like a ragdoll. Shea then turned to the other bandits and dispatched them in short order, using a combination of compact kicks, jabs, hooks, and punches. Before long, a pile of corpses littered the hill. Surprisingly, Shea seemed to have mastered the basics of Muay Thai.

“Y-You monster!” one of the bandits screamed.

“Bwahahahaha!” Shea just laughed in reply.

Two of the remaining bandits tried to pincer Shea. She quickly dropped her Muay Thai stance and cartwheeled out of the way. At the same time, she used her legs to crush the windpipes of the two men surrounding her. Another one of the bandits launched a spear thrust at her landing spot, but she wheeled out of the way and used the force of her spin to shatter his skull with a roundhouse kick. She’d gone from the sharp, choppy movements of a Muay Thai fighter to the rhythmical, graceful strikes of a capoeira fighter. But while this dance-like martial art was more graceful than Muay Thai, it was no less deadly.

“L-Lord of fire hear my—”

“Too late!”

One of the bandits tried chanting a spell, but Shea quickly jumped over to him. She stamped on the ground hard enough to cause a miniature earthquake, then hit the bandit with an elbow to the solar plexus. He flew backward while coughing up blood. Shea didn’t even bother to check whether or not he was dead. She turned to her remaining foes and struck them down with a flurry of elbows, palm strikes, and punches, all while fluidly shuffling between their attacks. She’d swapped styles again, this time to Bajiquan.

“G-Goddamniiiiiit!”

“Take thiiiiiiiiiiiis!”

Desperate, the few surviving bandits rushed Shea all at once. She deftly dodged between them and wrapped her arm around the neck of one of her foes as she passed. A perfect wrestling lariat. The bandit flipped through the air a few times before crumpling to the ground like a ragdoll. Another one of the bandits tried to shoot an arrow at her but she ran forward and kneed him in the face before he could even nock his bow. The archer next to him barely had time to scream before she dispatched him as well, this time with a backward suplex. Three styles hadn’t been enough for her so she’d added pro wrestling techniques into the mix as well. After that, she started using thrusts and Dempsey Rolls and one-armed shoulder throws and all sorts of other techniques from every martial art known to man. She was clearly pumped to get her reward. Within a few minutes, the bandits were all dead or dying.

“Uryaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!”

Shea pumped both fists into the air and proclaimed her victory to the world. Shivering, Yue muttered, “Shea’s terrifying...”

“You can say that again. I can’t believe she mastered all those techniques just from the half-assed examples I showed her...” Hajime responded with a stiff expression. After that incident, all of the adventurers started calling Shea “Shea-san” instead of “Shea-chan.” Hajime had no doubt the worthless rabbit of the forest would soon become a CQC god. Short Stories, Bonus Chapter - The Evolution of the Bunny Girl

So Shizuku skill is really high.

The times that he got stomp by enemies are Zoous, who have slaughtered his master, the previous wielder of Nagare, and he kept growing stronger the more he fight. And Durendal who completely annihilated Blades with his King Crimson spams and absurd AP gap.

He also have very high stamina couple with Low-Mid regen and damage reduction, he have what it take to truck through her attacks. While he might not be able to completely read them, nobody is perfect and he's willing to wait for the right moment. He can also amp his own AP even further by scanning Wonder Ride Book, which usually allow him to obliterate his peer if hit. Blades even got his own speed amp...even if it's not really impressive.

The times in which Shizuku was stomped was when facing enemies far higher than herself and severely outnumbered in a weaker key (the second key), when fighting people superior than herself and in a extremely unstable emotial state (at the beginning-middle of this key against her labyrinth copy, though later she surpassed her copy to the point that the copy thought that her sword was beatiful), and when against people far far stronger than her like the Apostles when outnumebered in a situation in which each second was vital (the last big event of this key).

She also have good stamina since she can train together with Kaori for hours and even when stressed she trained alone for like 12 hours, similarly she went in the Schnee Labyrinth fighting for like half a day or more under psychological attacks, she also can fight with wounds like broken bones, internal organ damage and severe blood loss. While problematic that level of regen isn't new to her since various enemies that she faced have that level, like for example the ice monsters of the Schnee Labyrinth, and while in this key she didn't showed to use her soul hax cut of her sword (probably do to the type of enemies she faced in the Schnee Labyrinth since most of them were things like golems and the Apostles don't have souls) if the fight prolong or turn too dangerous do to the regen and/or Blade abilities in general then she probably would use it.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Bump!!

 

[Noneless21]

Ya know, i seriously thought Shizuku can't hold her candle against Saber but seeing the GOAT expectro i suddenly leaning to Shizuku

 

[IxaSaga]

For clarity, Blade's AP is right before the cutoff of 8-A due to scaling. Massively upscale to 34 tons. Espada who was the 34 tonner couldn't hurt Jaou Dragon Calibur a single time who couldn't hurt Saber Dragonic Knight a single time. Blades KLD scales to Dragonic Knight and can harm him.

 

[IxaSaga]

He regularly trains with Kenzan and Espada who both can speed amp to blitz so he should be ready for it. Once he sees that she moves fast, he traps the whole arena with water to limit movement and to keep her in place, while he moves freely and attacks her.

 

[IxaSaga]

For Blades' skill. He beats a person that can precog countless timelines and is the best swordsman in the world. He single-handly destroyed the megid generals who have declared war on humans for 2000 years of battles. Destroyed hundreds of Ant Megids who are the grunts of the Generals with little to no effort.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

For clarity, Blade's AP is right before the cutoff of 8-A due to scaling. Massively upscale to 34 tons. Espada who was the 34 tonner couldn't hurt Jaou Dragon Calibur a single time who couldn't hurt Saber Dragonic Knight a single time. Blades KLD scales to Dragonic Knight and can harm him.

If you want to apply the same reasoning then Shizuku base AP in this key is also before the cutoff of 8-A, I mean her base scaling value is higher than Blade and she also have a massive scaling chain.

He regularly trains with Kenzan and Espada who both can speed amp to blitz so he should be ready for it. Once he sees that she moves fast, he traps the whole arena with water to limit movement and to keep her in place, while he moves freely and attacks her.

Shizuku normal moves already blitz comparable people and then to that in this key is futher added the 3x amp of Limiter Removal. So he will be facing someone who is not only stronger but also faster (more than 3 times faster when considering her other moves aside from Limiter Removal), who additionally also focus in end her fights quickly so she go for deadly moves quick, so taking in consideration the barrage of dangerous attacks (which could include soul cuts if she decide to use it) he is gonna have a hard time even trying to trap the arena.

For Blades' skill. He beats a person that can precog countless timelines and is the best swordsman in the world. He single-handly destroyed the megid generals who have declared war on humans for 2000 years of battles. Destroyed hundreds of Ant Megids who are the grunts of the Generals with little to no effort.

The precog thing is good, this Shizuku I'm not sure if alreasy had experience fighting against someone with precog, I think she trained with Shia in the airship and after complete the Schnee Labyrinth but I'm not completely sure, so is possible that she also have experience against something like that, though considering that Hajime group consider Shizuku skill impressive and that she can fight against Apostles who were comparable to a previous Hajime that was well above Shia at that point in skill then Shizuku arguably have the skill to face precog even if she still hadn't faced someone with precog in this point.

The rest of things you mentioned aren't really important though, she already is above in skill to people (Apostles) who are above the two best swordman in the world (Gahard and Meld), who additionally have thousands of years more of experience than 2000 years (since the Apostles seem to be exist since the Age of the Gods who at the same time was countless of thousands of years before the Liberators era who were some many thousands of years ago that even races with a lifespan of 900 years like the dragonmen don't have registers of them).

 

[IxaSaga]

If you want to apply the same reasoning then Shizuku base AP in this key is also before the cutoff of 8-A, I mean her base scaling value is higher than Blade and she also have a massive scaling chain.

same with Blades and I didn't include RPL and Stat Amps which he has 4 of. They should both be around the same.

Shizuku normal moves already blitz comparable people and then to that in this key is futher added the 3x amp of Limiter Removal. So he will be facing someone who is not only stronger but also faster (more than 3 times faster when considering her other moves aside from Limiter Removal), who additionally also focus in end her fights quickly so she go for deadly moves quick, so taking in consideration the barrage of dangerous attacks (which could include soul cuts if she decide to use it) he is gonna have a hard time even trying to trap the arena.

I mean, all he needs is one swing to make the whole arena into water. Considering the range and the width of his attacks, it shouldn't be a hard feat. And for blitzing, he can easily dip into a water portal to escape while water flows everywhere. Again, he can react to people that blitz their own levels. Even some of the slower characters like Buster can react to blitzing. Also, his armor has damage reduction so if she doesn't choose to use Soul cut immediately, she shouldn't be able to beat him within the time frame where he floods the whole field with water and then form a water bubble surrounding her. His LS also out classes hers so she won't be able to get out.

Edit: not that speed amp won't work against him, Blades will most likely have multiple plans for people that have amps.

If things go bad, he can summon his summons to help him.

The precog thing is good, this Shizuku I'm not sure if alreasy had experience fighting against someone with precog, I think she trained with Shia in the airship and after complete the Schnee Labyrinth but I'm not completely sure, so is possible that she also have experience against something like that, though considering that Hajime group consider Shizuku skill impressive and that she can fight against Apostles who were comparable to a previous Hajime that was well above Shia at that point in skill then Shizuku arguably have the skill to face precog even if she still hadn't faced someone with precog in this point.
The rest of things you mentioned aren't really important though, she already is above in skill to people (Apostles) who are above the two best swordman in the world (Gahard and Meld), who additionally have thousands of years more of experience than 2000 years (since the Apostles seem to be exist since the Age of the Gods who at the same time was countless of thousands of years before the Liberators era who were some many thousands of years ago that even races with a lifespan of 900 years like the dragonmen don't have registers of them).

Well in sheer years, you have Blades beat but, I got a question;
Who, of notability, have they fought and defeated in their years of fighting? If its against people they stomp, that hardly improves skill. Also, looking at Meld and Gahard's profiles, they don't seem impressive and nothing indicates that they are the best in the world. Only one of them says they are the strongest of the humans, which doesn't really mean anything when there's Tier 7 and 6s roaming around in the verse.

Calibur's precog gives them enough information to know what people think, says, act, and decide before they even do it. Since the Calibur users play out countless of different timelines as if they are real, I wouldn't be surprise that they would get all the experience from that.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I mean, all he needs is one swing to make the whole arena into water. Considering the range and the width of his attacks, it shouldn't be a hard feat. And for blitzing, he can easily dip into a water portal to escape while water flows everywhere. Again, he can react to people that blitz their own levels. Even some of the slower characters like Buster can react to blitzing. Also, his armor has damage reduction so if she doesn't choose to use Soul cut immediately, she shouldn't be able to beat him within the time frame where he floods the whole field with water and then form a water bubble surrounding her. His LS also out classes hers so she won't be able to get out.

Edit: not that speed amp won't work against him, Blades will most likely have multiple plans for people that have amps.

If things go bad, he can summon his summons to help him.

She could also defend against the water with the spatial cut, specially since isn't completely sure if Blade spatial resistance is really enough against the layers of the sword. The soul cut is also a possibility because while she didn't showed to use it in this key that's probably because in this key she only faced beings without souls (ice golems, ice animal monsters, Apostles, and her copy which is not only doubious that have a soul but in anycase would be able to null the hax with her own sword), so it's a realistic possibility. Kouki armor have damage reduction and still is dangerous to him, the resistance and magic resistance stats also grant damage reduction and Shizuku attacks still are dangerous to her peers despite them having high stats (this was accepted in one of the recent crts but isn't in the profiles because I don't have my pc to edit the profiles).

And regarding speed the Apostles are at least 36x FTL while this Shizuku is vaguely above FTL but she still can fight against them, with her No Tempo they even had problems reacting to her.

If she see summons then she definitely will go with her most dangerous thing, aka soul cut, since she had a really bad experience against a summoner that overwhelmed her and her party with her monsters to the point they almost died, so she without doubt don't want to repeat that. Also, the summons are monsters, animals or something like that? Because then it's even possible that she could control them with metamorphosis magic, though this is less probable that she just going with her strongest thing to kill Blade.

Well in sheer years, you have Blades beat but, I got a question;
Who, of notability, have they fought and defeated in their years of fighting? If its against people they stomp, that hardly improves skill. Also, looking at Meld and Gahard's profiles, they don't seem impressive and nothing indicates that they are the best in the world. Only one of them says they are the strongest of the humans, which doesn't really mean anything when there's Tier 7 and 6s roaming around in the verse.

Calibur's precog gives them enough information to know what people think, says, act, and decide before they even do it. Since the Calibur users play out countless of different timelines as if they are real, I wouldn't be surprise that they would get all the experience from that.

They basically fought against the strongest people of each era that Ehit decide to kill for fun when he want to change the current world once again, some of the people we know they fought include the strongest of entire countries, special magic users, Tio grandfather (who is just surpassed in strength in his clan by Tio and even then she consider him really strong), probably the grand-grandfather of Tio (who probably was tier 6 considering that absorbing his strength made Tio Low 6-B) though in the end the ones who killed him were the other dragonmen, and the most notorious one been the Liberators (who each was a master of their ancient magic, genius capables of learning and improving the moves of others after just one glance, with the physical fighters in general been comparable to Vandree who mastered all martial arts, and more since I'm currently just in vol 3 of Zero and their skill feats don't stop to increase, after read the rest of vols there will come a crt to upgrade their profiles). And about Gahard and Meld point they are outdated, there are like two crts with things to add to them is just that because of not having my pc I can't update them. Also, the reason of why I said that they are above them in skill is because (aside of scalin chain) the Apostles analyse the styles of the most skilled people of each era to share between the network of all the Apostles and improve their own skill along with bring said data to their master Ehit so he can improve his own swordmanship/fighting ability, something that he do just for fun to pass his boredome, so to them this is a mission really important.

I mean, not the whole point of precog is know what will happen before it happen? Would be weird call something precog if don't let the user know things before they happen.

 

[IxaSaga]

She could also defend against the water with the spatial cut, specially since isn't completely sure if Blade spatial resistance is really enough against the layers of the sword. The soul cut is also a possibility because while she didn't showed to use it in this key that's probably because in this key she only faced beings without souls (ice golems, ice animal monsters, Apostles, and her copy which is not only doubious that have a soul but in anycase would be able to null the hax with her own sword), so it's a realistic possibility. Kouki armor have damage reduction and still is dangerous to him, the resistance and magic resistance stats also grant damage reduction and Shizuku attacks still are dangerous to her peers despite them having high stats (this was accepted in one of the recent crts but isn't in the profiles because I don't have my pc to edit the profiles).

And regarding speed the Apostles are at least 36x FTL while this Shizuku is vaguely above FTL but she still can fight against them, with her No Tempo they even had problems reacting to her.

Blades can tank Calibur's spacial cuts relatively easily since every one of Calibur's attack were spacial cuts. Since they are relatively similar AP, he should take normal (normal as in not particularly effective or not particularly ineffective) damage. His water also reflects back attacks but since they shouldn't have a big difference in AP, I think his water slashes are going to clash with whatever ranged she has.

Regarding the at least 36x FTL part, I don't know why she shouldn't just directly scale to 36x FTL if she can keep up with them. A little confused for that. Anyhow, if the total speed she gets is at least 7x higher than Blades, then this might just be a speed stomp.

I don't question her speed in general but how does she do in water? It's likely going to immobilize her due to it suctioning everything in one place.

If she see summons then she definitely will go with her most dangerous thing, aka soul cut, since she had a really bad experience against a summoner that overwhelmed her and her party with her monsters to the point they almost died, so she without doubt don't want to repeat that. Also, the summons are monsters, animals or something like that? Because then it's even possible that she could control them with metamorphosis magic, though this is less probable that she just going with her strongest thing to kill Blade.

He can summon a Lion, a Pegasus, and Fairy. He could summon the fairy to make it seem like she is not going to do anything but she is pretty strong. Blades can also just un-summon them if she can control them.

They basically fought against the strongest people of each era that Ehit decide to kill for fun when he want to change the current world once again, some of the people we know they fought include the strongest of entire countries, special magic users, Tio grandfather (who is just surpassed in strength in his clan by Tio and even then she consider him really strong), probably the grand-grandfather of Tio (who probably was tier 6 considering that absorbing his strength made Tio Low 6-B) though in the end the ones who killed him were the other dragonmen, and the most notorious one been the Liberators (who each was a master of their ancient magic, genius capables of learning and improving the moves of others after just one glance, with the physical fighters in general been comparable to Vandree who mastered all martial arts, and more since I'm currently just in vol 3 of Zero and their skill feats don't stop to increase, after read the rest of vols there will come a crt to upgrade their profiles). And about Gahard and Meld point they are outdated, there are like two crts with things to add to them is just that because of not having my pc I can't update them. Also, the reason of why I said that they are above them in skill is because (aside of scalin chain) the Apostles analyse the styles of the most skilled people of each era to share between the network of all the Apostles and improve their own skill along with bring said data to their master Ehit so he can improve his own swordmanship/fighting ability, something that he do just for fun to pass his boredome, so to them this is a mission really important.

Fair enough, Blades doesn't get too crazy in this arc yet.

I mean, not the whole point of precog is know what will happen before it happen? Would be weird call something precog if don't let the user know things before they happen.

There is totally different levels of precog. In Calibur's case, he can see the future x countless.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Blades can tank Calibur's spacial cuts relatively easily since every one of Calibur's attack were spacial cuts. Since they are relatively similar AP, he should take normal (normal as in not particularly effective or not particularly ineffective) damage. His water also reflects back attacks but since they shouldn't have a big difference in AP, I think his water slashes are going to clash with whatever ranged she has.

Regarding the at least 36x FTL part, I don't know why she shouldn't just directly scale to 36x FTL if she can keep up with them. A little confused for that. Anyhow, if the total speed she gets is at least 7x higher than Blades, then this might just be a speed stomp.

I don't question her speed in general but how does she do in water? It's likely going to immobilize her due to it suctioning everything in one place.


He can summon a Lion, a Pegasus, and Fairy. He could summon the fairy to make it seem like she is not going to do anything but she is pretty strong. Blades can also just un-summon them if she can control them.


There is totally different levels of precog. In Calibur's case, he can see the future x countless.

I mean, not sure if that's enough to resist the ignore dura part of her sword since as I said before the sword was made by vol 11 Hajime who gained spatial magic in vol 3 and have improved his mastery with it constantly in each vol like Yue, the on top of that Hajime futher enchanced it with evolution magic (info manip) to increase the level of the hax. Actually now that I thought about it if Post-Schnee is supposed to cover everything until just before the final fight that would mean that the sword used is the reforged version that Hajime made after transcend his limits (basically that the sword was much more powerful than before which mean another layer), if instead this key is supposed to cover things until the fight against Apostles then the previous part can be ignored, Pegasus need to clarify this part.

Narratively speaking she was far below them in all aspects, speed included (if using their actual stats then the Apostles are supposed to be like 15x faster or so, though purely using the stats is dumb so this is better if is ignored), and the only reason of why she could face them was because of skill and will power. I don't argue she would be 7x faster, just that with her speed moves, amp and general skill Blade will have a really hard time facing her.

Since Shizuku didn't fought in Meiru Labyrinth her experience in water fields is limited to the fights she had against her companions with water magic and possibly Yue.

The fairy summon could arguably be a problem because Shizuku have a weakness to cute things, though considering how she killed thousands of enemies when she was under the effects of a spell that made her see them as cute little kitties then she probably will be capable of kill her.

In Shia case her precog is above Belle who can see the possible futures and fates of people, Belle at the same time scale above a holy templar knight with a special magic that let her instinctively know the best thing to do and how to do them in any situation (this do to a application of restoration magic/time manip in which she know the steps to reach her desired future). Shia also is able to see the futures of Apostles who based in the events of Zero vol 1 apparently seem to lack fates and futures.

 

[IxaSaga]

I mean, not sure if that's enough to resist the ignore dura part of her sword since as I said before the sword was made by vol 11 Hajime who gained spatial magic in vol 3 and have improved his mastery with it constantly in each vol like Yue, the on top of that Hajime futher enchanced it with evolution magic (info manip) to increase the level of the hax. Actually now that I thought about it if Post-Schnee is supposed to cover everything until just before the final fight that would mean that the sword used is the reforged version that Hajime made after transcend his limits (basically that the sword was much more powerful than before which mean another layer), if instead this key is supposed to cover things until the fight against Apostles then the previous part can be ignored, Pegasus need to clarify this part.

Mmmm. dunno, Calibur's sword gets upgraded a ton to the point where it reach Tier 2, but obviously, that isn't relevant in this debate. Pegasus is a water pegasus, flaps its wings to reflect back attacks (although not used in the show).

Narratively speaking she was far below them in all aspects, speed included (if using their actual stats then the Apostles are supposed to be like 15x faster or so, though purely using the stats is dumb so this is better if is ignored), and the only reason of why she could face them was because of skill and will power. I don't argue she would be 7x faster, just that with her speed moves, amp and general skill Blade will have a really hard time facing her

Since Shizuku didn't fought in Meiru Labyrinth her experience in water fields is limited to the fights she had against her companions with water magic and possibly Yue.

I see, so RPL? Fair enough, although I did mention Blades' has ways to get through speed amps and water would render her skill useless since he can get free hits in and she would be trapped, whether he decides to make a water bubble or a water tornado or something.

The fairy summon could arguably be a problem because Shizuku have a weakness to cute things, though considering how she killed thousands of enemies when she was under the effects of a spell that made her see them as cute little kitties then she probably will be capable of kill her.

Interesting. I guess the fairy is a boon but won't change the outcome a whole lot.

In Shia case her precog is above Belle who can see the possible futures and fates of people, Belle at the same time scale above a holy templar knight with a special magic that let her instinctively know the best thing to do and how to do them in any situation (this do to a application of restoration magic/time manip in which she know the steps to reach her desired future). Shia also is able to see the futures of Apostles who based in the events of Zero vol 1 apparently seem to lack fates and futures.

I don't think that is better than Calibur's. Again, this would be useless if she can't find a way out of Blades' water traps.

What I'm gathering from this fight is Shizuku's best win-con is speed + Soul Manip (if she uses it) while Blades' best win-con utilizing his water to his advantage with LS. I think they are both relativity reliable win-cons.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Mmmm. dunno, Calibur's sword gets upgraded a ton to the point where it reach Tier 2, but obviously, that isn't relevant in this debate. Pegasus is a water pegasus, flaps its wings to reflect back attacks (although not used in the show).

I suppose that isn't in this key since otherwise he would have tier 2 AP, also in a not to far future is possible that her sword will also become tier 2 considering the recent cosmological developments in the verse and the probably upgrades will happen. She have faced some people that can reflect back attacks (Absod, Suzu barriers in this point I think they do so, some magic barriers of elements like wind, iirc some monsters in Schnee Labyrinth, possibly Yue if she trained with her, her copy, etc) so that isn't new to her.

I see, so RPL? Fair enough, although I did mention Blades' has ways to get through speed amps and water would render her skill useless since he can get free hits in and she would be trapped, whether he decides to make a water bubble or a water tornado or something.

Maybe RPL? In that parts there were some staments of people like Shia getting stronger each second and Shizuku best friend, Kaori, also showed RPL in Schnee Labyrinth and Shizuku herself also grew in her battle against her copy, though RPL isn't actually confirmed for her.

What I'm gathering from this fight is Shizuku's best win-con is speed + Soul Manip (if she uses it) while Blades' best win-con utilizing his water to his advantage with LS. I think they are both relativity reliable win-cons.

I would say that the space cut is other possible win con under the assumption that his spatial resistance isn't enough. Also under the assumption that they have comparable AP her sword should do realistic damage which mean that she could finish him with one of the Yaegashi techniques taking advantage of the speed amp. Blade water LS indeed is his main win con.

 

[IxaSaga]

I suppose that isn't in this key since otherwise he would have tier 2 AP, also in a not to far future is possible that her sword will also become tier 2 considering the recent cosmological developments in the verse and the probably upgrades will happen. She have faced some people that can reflect back attacks (Absod, Suzu barriers in this point I think they do so, some magic barriers of elements like wind, iirc some monsters in Schnee Labyrinth, possibly Yue if she trained with her, her copy, etc) so that isn't new to her.

Maybe RPL? In that parts there were some staments of people like Shia getting stronger each second and Shizuku best friend, Kaori, also showed RPL in Schnee Labyrinth and Shizuku herself also grew in her battle against her copy, though RPL isn't actually confirmed for her.

I would say that the space cut is other possible win con under the assumption that his spatial resistance isn't enough. Also under the assumption that they have comparable AP her sword should do realistic damage which mean that she could finish him with one of the Yaegashi techniques taking advantage of the speed amp. Blade water LS indeed is his main win con.

The only reason Blades doesn't have res to dura neg is that dura neg is far too general to be a resistance. Res to spacial manip does cover it. In Saber, a lot of things are determined by AP and spacial manip is one of those things. I think both have solid win-cons that are reliable. I think its a 50/50 incon.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

The only reason Blades doesn't have res to dura neg is that dura neg is far too general to be a resistance. Res to spacial manip does cover it. In Saber, a lot of things are determined by AP and spacial manip is one of those things. I think both have solid win-cons that are reliable. I think its a 50/50 incon.

Personally I think Shizuku have some higher chances but not by a lot (something like a 6/10?) so I can understand if you and others vote inco, though I vote for Shizuku do to that somewhat higher chances.

 

[IxaSaga]

Personally I think Shizuku have some higher chances but not by a lot (something like a 6/10?) so I can understand if you and others vote inco, though I vote for Shizuku do to that somewhat higher chances.

I made the vote with something in mind that I didn't even mention cause I forgot. Blades' water comes out of his body and can come out from under him so that's why I think its far more easier to do then I made it to be.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Bump!!

 

[speedster352]

Shizaku fra

 

[Noneless21]

Bump

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Bump!!

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

You know what, f*** it
Incon FRA

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Noneless21]

Bump

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[BERRIES555]

Shizuku FRA

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Noneless21]

i'll just vote Shizuku FRA

 

[IxaSaga]

Okay, I'll change my vote to Shizuka to make it go faster. She has enough solid wincons to win overall.

 

[Kflare63]

Shizuka fra

 

[Popted2]

Shizuku FRA

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Grace.

 

[Noneless21]

I guess arifureta Peeps will also get banned in the future tourney huh...

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Grace ended so this can be added.