Here we go again: 1-A Ichiban downgrade, the sequel.

[QuasiYuri]

So, at some point during forum move, a Ichiban downgrade had been made. Since it was not the best time to do it, whole thing was mainly me vs Ionliosite, and pages had some new stuff added while the CRT would be continued later.
And later is this moment.

Since I can't find the thread anywhere, I remade a sandbox some times ago, including the previous arguments and some new ones, explaining why only TLOI/Void Body should be 1-A.

So, everything's inside of it.

To resume:

-The Afterlife is part of a "hierarchy", but nowhere near the top of it.
-It should instead be Low 2-C pre-expansion, based on Sai being a universe like the others Extra-Universal Gods
-And 2-B after it, since he created countless stories which expanded this same realm.
-In addition to this, Brave random time travel reaching it implies that it is on the same level as regular time and all, not beyond time.

So, let's continue this.

 

[Regidian]

Following

 

[Shyouu]

First is the Masada downgrade now ichiban? Oh this isn't gonna end well

Following

 

[Saiyan40009]

in agreement

 

[Ionliosite]

I've been talking this for months with Ultima, so I agree with a downgrade, but disagree with the proposed tiers. I'll elaborate later, I'm kinda busy right now.

 

[AKUTO123]

I don't need to say what happened to the dream hierarchy that it literally represents the higher dimensions.

 

[AKUTO123]

What refutes afterlife to be a much higher dimensional universe than the normal universe?

 

[AKUTO123]

"To keep the story more flat, he prepared an infinite surface, chairs, a table, drinks, and a few fruits. Even that was enough to create a story, but it would keep the story to a minimum.

People could only perceive reality as a story and they would search for the ending of that story. That ending would be the end of reality. It would also be the end of the flow of time."
defines it as the end of time here Akuto afterlife shows that time is over here

 

[AKUTO123]

The most transcendent thing of fiction after tloi is in the series, because fiction is tloi's fiction. The dream hierarchy is part of the fiction and it is one of the infinite layers, yes but the infinity that this infinite layer expresses does not only contain the dream hierarchy, nothing here reduces 1A, as I see

 

[QuasiYuri]

"To keep the story more flat, he prepared an infinite surface, chairs, a table, drinks, and a few fruits. Even that was enough to create a story, but it would keep the story to a minimum.

People could only perceive reality as a story and they would search for the ending of that story. That ending would be the end of reality. It would also be the end of the flow of time."
defines it as the end of time here Akuto afterlife shows that time is over here

Very first part and whole point of how Brave get there shows the opposite.

 

[Quintessence_PE]

I strongly disagree, especially considering what the author said, tloi and akuto could even be 0.

 

[QuasiYuri]

The most transcendent thing of fiction after tloi is in the series, because fiction is tloi's fiction. The dream hierarchy is part of the fiction and it is one of the infinite layers, yes but the infinity that this infinite layer expresses does not only contain the dream hierarchy, nothing here reduces 1A, as I see

And TLOI would still be 1-A, Afterlife just isn't the top of any hierarchy, as shown in the sandbox.

 

[AKUTO123]

Very first part and whole point of how Brave get there shows the opposite.

Against the author's responses, this site is strict, but the author literally confirms the quote I linked. indicates that it is for the perception of time in the reader's mind for the place you are connected to.

 

[AKUTO123]

And TLOI would still be 1-A, Afterlife just isn't the top of any hierarchy, as shown in the sandbox.

Exceeds exactly the dream hierarchy Do I need to say that Akuto and his extra universal gods in the dream hierarchy are above the High 1B dream hierarchy?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Who would be downgraded then??

Afterlife Sai.

Also it is a downgrade to TLOI/Void Body, since while they would be 1-A, they wouldn't be High 1-A anymore.

Everything's in the sandbox really.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Against the author's responses, this site is strict, but the author literally confirms the quote I linked. indicates that it is for the perception of time in the reader's mind for the place you are connected to.

You mean the recent questions toward their twitter account? He didn't deny the presence of time, but explained its meaning.

Brave suit only deals with litteraly physical time and space too.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Exceeds exactly the dream hierarchy Do I need to say that Akuto and his extra universal gods in the dream hierarchy are above the High 1B dream hierarchy?

Did you read the sandbox ?

The big part of it is about explaining how they are barely at "first layer", and that even the existence of said hierarchy is doubtful.

 

[AKUTO123]

Afterlife Sai.

Also it is a downgrade to TLOI/Void Body, since while they would be 1-A, they wouldn't be High 1-A anymore.

Everything's in the sandbox really.

I read the sandbox but nothing else, you just ignore the dream hierarchy and there is time in it so you say 1A is there anything else in the sandbox?

 

[QuasiYuri]

I read the sandbox but nothing else, you just ignore the dream hierarchy and there is time in it so you say 1A is there anything else in the sandbox?

"Ignore the dream hierarchy"...

It's litteraly 90% of the explanation.

 

[AKUTO123]

We know that the hierarchy of dreams is a fictional reality relationship, and the series tells us that it sees it as subordinate fiction literally. The notebook tells that the upper being is an infinite hierarchy in which he sees the underlying entity as a fiction.

 

[AKUTO123]

Are you saying that the fictional steps and the dream hierarchy are the same thing?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Are you saying that the fictional steps and the dream hierarchy are the same thing?

It's litteraly the explanation I gave in the sandbox, and why it was the case.

 

[AKUTO123]

The dream hierarchy is what a writer-story relationship is, and it is an infinite writer hierarchy of lower and upper dimensional writers, and there are many different authors but tloi on top of them all. First of all, we can understand from here that there is 1 author in all dimensions and dimensions that last forever. I guess I should explain now what is the difference between the layers of fiction in the infinite retreat and that. The dream hierarchy is formed by the fictions of other people, but the fiction of tloi, which is the infinite layer of the fiction, refers to the fiction of the afterlife. The fiction of tloi is impossible to reach. and the first level of the fiction that Akuto canceled is the fiction of the tloi, and it is much higher than the fiction of the dream hierarchy.

 

[AKUTO123]

The fiction of the dream hierarchy and afterlife are two different fictions. one fiction entirely belongs to tloi and begins above the other fiction. The first layer of the dream hierarchy <afterlife tloi fiction, the afterlife fiction is another fiction higher than the dream hierarchy. I do not agree with what is written on the sandbox

 

[Quintessence_PE]

Now it's pointless to lower akuto and loi, on the contrary, there are reasons to raise them.

 

[QuasiYuri]

The fiction of the dream hierarchy and afterlife are two different fictions. one fiction entirely belongs to tloi and begins above the other fiction. The first layer of the dream hierarchy <afterlife tloi fiction, the afterlife fiction is another fiction higher than the dream hierarchy. I do not agree with what is written on the sandbox

You disagreeing without proof doesn't help your side tho.

What you are implying for now is that Yoshie, who only knows about the dream hierarchy, magically became aware of a new one encompassing it. Despite context making it obvious that it is the same thing, just with different words being used.

The first mention was already theorizing about TLOI story, and second is a confirmation of it.

(Btw, please structure your sentences. Some are barely comprehensible.)

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

I've been talking this for months with Ultima, so I agree with a downgrade, but disagree with the proposed tiers. I'll elaborate later, I'm kinda busy right now.

Are you going to add to Yuri's writing or talk only about proposed tier? well, I'd rather see all the evidence of the downgrade and discuss it.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Now it's pointless to lower akuto and loi, on the contrary, there are reasons to raise them.

How trying to make them the right tier is pointless?

 

[Quintessence_PE]

How trying to make them the right tier is pointless?

I wanted to say that it is not true

 

[QuasiYuri]

If it is, then explain how what is explained is false with proof. That's how it works.

 

[AKUTO123]

No, everything in the ichiban universe is actually tloi's fiction, but loi is not the only story writer, you have already thrown evidence of what I call it in your sandbox. There is an excerpt that the dream hierarchy is an author hierarchy already in the sandbox. No matter how far these writers' fiction goes, tloi's fiction will be above their fiction. The fiction of tloi also includes the fiction of all other story writers. It takes place in the series where loi created the afterlife is already under the dream hierarchy afterlife because the fiction of tloi> passes for the fiction of the writers in the dream hierarchy and the afterlife fiction of tloi the context of the infinite withdrawal in no way to combine the two contexts. There is no reason. They are two separate contexts. They are higher than the dream hierarchy. You say tloi?

 

[AKUTO123]

Dream hierarchy = nothing that shows the afterlife editing hierarchy.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I never said Afterlife edited the hierarchy.

Also once again you throw baseless assumption. Yoshie only knows about one thing, and she never got the chance to learn anything else.
So unless you bring proof that Yoshie somehow learned a brand new cosmology part between her reading the journal and Act 13, your interpretation is pure headcanon.

Scaling chain is TLOI>Hierarchy>Afterlife. Hell, the hierarchy only exist because the scientist wondered what is beyond the Afterlife; which is also how the "infinite retreat" is.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Also I don't want to say it too much, but please try to structure your sentences or something. It's a pain to even get to the point you went.

 

[AKUTO123]

Unfortunately my English is not very good. anyway, for now, I believe that I have expressed my views.

 

[AKUTO123]

I do understand what you’re saying, though. The only ones given an incarnation in the Law of Identity’s world are you and me. Wouldn’t incarnation be the best term for being equal concepts before the creator? So in your world, the people inside are equally given an incarnation.”

“I may be the creator here, but I don’t feel like a God. What I can feel is that stories are binding us. Even when I create worlds, I am only free in which story I choose and to what degree I take that story. In the end, I want to destroy that and escape this world.”

Doesn't hiroshi show that there is a Platonic concept here? also in the novel, hiroshi says that Self and Akuto transcend fiction, but what fiction is this because although they transcend fiction, they are still in a fiction. because the fiction they transcend shows that it is actually the fiction of the dream hierarchy. hiroshi has not become a Platonic concept, surpassing the fiction of the dream hierarchy?

 

[AKUTO123]

“Existence? You explained that earlier, didn’t you?”

“If the people of the afterlife are fictional characters, we alone exist. The two of us and the demon king.”

“The two of us and the demon king?”

Brave was taken aback.

“We may have been chosen by the Law of Identity. We were chosen as side characters, but we were still given important parts to play.”

Bouichirou’s expression was oddly calm.

“I do feel like destiny is playing a hand in things. And we weren’t wrapped up in what just happened.”
Here he says that everyone except himself and Akuto are part of a fiction. But this quote also expresses that Akuto and himself are fictional entities in the fictional world of identity law. that is, it shows that identity law and dream hierarchy and Afterlife are different constructions.

Brave accepted that explanation, but his expression did not change.

“That’s based on the theory that no one would realize it if the world and all our memories were created five minutes ago. I’m familiar with that, but if it’s true…what does that make us?”

“That is a natural question, but it is a difficult one to answer as we are on the inside.” Bouichirou chose his words carefully. “However, if we assume the entire universe was created by the Law of Identity, it means we are fictional beings, as is the demon king.”

“That’s what you were talking about before, isn’t it?”

“The afterlife exists on the inside and we can think of it as existing inside the demon king.”

“Yeah,” agreed Brave. “I get it. We all died and were resurrected. But it was the demon king that resurrected us.”

 

[AKUTO123]

These excerpts also say that Hiroshi Akuto and himself transcend fiction, but identity law is still fictional characters in the fictional world of fiction. this proves the separate fictional world of the identity law that I call Akuto and hiroshi are only in the fiction of identity law and cannot be found in any other place.

 

[QuasiYuri]

There's no Platonic concept at all involved. I guess you are referring to density, which is just a greater awareness and not power-related.

Also your scans go even against what you want to argue, since it explains that they are fiction. Him calling others fiction is just based on the "created memories part", where Akuto can manipulate the souls in the Afterlife.

Also your point is nuked by the fact that at this point, Hiroshi and Brave were their base self, and not the special self they were when they went to the Afterlife. It's just a question of relevance and awareness, but not transcendance.

 

[AKUTO123]

You misinterpret the quotations here, it says that although the fiction is hanged, there is a fiction. In other words, although they transcend the fiction of the dream hierarchy, it shows that they are still in the tloi fiction. All other things except Akuto and hiroshi are included in Akuto's fiction Akuto and hiroshi tloi fiction, which is written in the scan I linked.