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1-A Hax for the Spectre

Hykuu

Hykuu

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I was talking about making this thread for a loooooooooong time, It really pissed me off seeing threads with the Spectre and just seeing people say "lol spectre haxless" I was initially going to post a shitton of Spectre feats along with this but I got lazy.

Firstly, I'd suggest that we have Keys to Seperate Jim Corrigan Spectre and Hal jordan Spectre, but have shown feats that the either hasn't (They both should actually scale to each other's hax feats either way but it would be more accurate) As Hal did have a pretty long and good run with the Spectre.


Here, we see Hal Jordan being Capable of Tapping into the Logoz for Power, His direct channel to the Presence, As he explains. This was During Soul Wars: The Spectre. The Spectre explictly states here that he can channel the power of the Presence with a prayer, which is instantly answered. This Connection is further established in Spectre 2001. (It was the unbound Spectre but it further confirms that the Spectre infact contains the Logoz within him.)

The Logoz itself is the first Word which sung all of Existence into Being, it is in all terms, God. (In Spectre 2001 it says the Logoz is a aspect of God which is essentially what I am trying to also show here.)

The Logoz is described as The Word of God by The Angels of Heave, The Voice is Incomprehensible even to the likes of Elaine.


The Logoz Contains and Transcends Everything and Everyone In Creation, It is beyond all perspectives and Perceptions.


The Spectre Himself is God's Judgement, He Carries the Will of God in the form of a Hammer (The Hammer of Judgement), [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...2758/498546540768657408/RCO018_1468893586.jpg No Higher Reality is Capable of defying or Escaping this Judgement (Making this Atleast High 1-B regardless on wether you agree it's God's judgement) As The Spectre makes clear "There is no Land beyond the Judgement of the Voice" "And *in his name* I condemn ""There is No Reality Beyond Judgement" (Zauriel uses the term higher reality right before that and the entire story is regarding 5D Djinns causing Havoc Across Creation)]

The Spectre also is stated here to have Merged with the Vengeance of God, Forcing God's Judgement Upon Sinners.

Explictly stated here to embody God's Judgement

It is essentially made clear throughout all these scans and statements Spectre Judges Someone Soul, Sending it to God hirself. Spectre himself is God's Will (This only applies to hax, this isn't implying the Spectre is 1-A himself. The Force might be tho idk) and he imposes this Will when deemed Necessary

Also Spectre can absorb nonexistent beings lol
 
So what do you want to change in The Spectre's profile?
 
Simply I want to remove most of his losses (as he can just use these hax to destroy tf out of his opponent, unless they have something like passive mind manip)

I'd like some form of Ability listed in his Page


Firstly, His Judgement

Judgment: The Spectre himself is the Judgement of God, The Spectre Force was punished by Michael to Judge all evil for Eternity as a punishment for him rebelling against God. The Spectre judges someone with the will of The Presence hirself, This essentially sends their soul to be judged to the Presence, if God decides they are sinful, The Spectre would usually punish them in a ironic way (Depending on the Sin). This Ability itself works up to the 1-A scale. (probably add that as a note)

The Logoz: The Logoz is the Voice of God, It is the first Word of which all of creation stems from. It is indeed the fundamental force which binds all of creation and keeps it from falling apart, The Spectre has a direct channel to the Logoz, he uses the Power of the Logoz (aka God) by Praying to God, The Prayers themselves are usually instantly answered.

Also, The Spectre himself is neither dead or alive, he is a ghost in general, which I am pretty sure grants him type 5 (the 1st part) and type 7. The Spectre was already described as being beyond Life and Death.

As The Spectre explains, He is the Mind and Will of God, The Spectre Force can't ever be killed untill it fullfiles its mission (essentially if the spectre fights a evil being he has 1-A immortality as long as they keep fighting him lol)

He is also capable of fully destroying and breaking down Magic, and Absorbing it, giving him Magic Nullifcation and Power Absorption.

Oh, and no, there is really nothing which proves that there is a difference in hax between a hostless spectre and the spectre with a host, within the story it is never shown that he has gotten weaker, just that he needs a human host to keep him from rampaging.

Oh yeah, as i have shown in the MMH downgrade thread, His Mind hax is also capable of mind haxxing the ENTIRE JL (Including MMH) extremely casually. Come to think of it, since he is the "Mind and Will of God", Wouldn't this give him some form of resistance to Mind hax? Maybe a 1-A Mind?

He has also already resisted the Lasso of truth, which in itself is Mind hax.

He should also have some conceptual manip of some sorts (idek how to classify this) as he killed the lords of order and chaos, whom are abstract beings with no physical form.

He also should have precognition as he is capable of percieving Infinite timelines, the entire Multiverse,which makes sense as there is essentially a single Spectre who operates on the scale of the entire Multiverse.

There you go, he should have some other stuff but this is all I can do for now.
 
I do not know if most of his abilities have ever been demonstrated against beings anywhere near his own scale. He mostly tends to go around bullying and torturing mortals.

You should ask Matthew Schroeder, Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Shivansh Garg, KLOL506, Zensum, TheC2, and Nether nine to comment here.
 
" I do not know if most of his abilities have ever been demonstrated against beings anywhere near his own scale. He mostly tends to go around bullying and torturing mortals. "

what are you referring to?
 
Well, I am not disputing that he has demonstrated these abilities, I just don't think that he has ever demonstrated them on comparable entities.
 
I am saying in which case has he demonstrated the ability to use hax, rather than raw power, against other 1-A characters?
 
Thats a different Cain.

The Cain that resides in the Dreaming arent even the real Cain. The Cain that we see in Sandman is not the original Cain, its a Cain that Dream created to serve as Abels companion.
 
The Cain from Final Crisis also doesnt seem like the Cain in the Sandman, They're completely different
 
I agree with Sandman31.
 
The only 1-A stuff are the Hal Jordan stuff. Though I think we should create seperate keys for each different host of tbe Spectre. The only one who will get the 1-A hax is Hal Jordan Spectre
 
Yes, the Spectre and Michael also fought before. When Jesus died it was shown that Michael fought and sealed Spectre. The Spectre also fought Kali before (Who is Michael's Hindu guise) , he got one shotted though.

There's a little problem because Lucifer's timeline contradicts DC's timeline. Michael should still be imprisoned by Sandalphon, not guarding the gates of Heaven as shown in the Spectre and other mainstream DC comics

Same proble with the Presence, there are multiple interpretation/version of the Presence that contradicts each other.
 
Okay. So what do you suggest?
 
Remove the bit about him fighting Michael with a note explaining the inconsistency. I think we can still keep the 1-A key. Also just like OP said, we should make keys for Corrigan and Hal.
 
Is there some way to explain the continuity problem with that Michael had different aspects?
 
I would prefer to get input from other knowledgeable members before we remove the mention in any case.

Can somebody ask the following members to comment here?

Matthew Schroeder, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Shivansh Garg, KLOL506, Zensum, TheC2, and Nether nine.
 
Sandman31 said:
Yes, the Spectre and Michael also fought before. When Jesus died it was shown that Michael fought and sealed Spectre. The Spectre also fought Kali before (Who is Michael's Hindu guise) , he got one shotted though.

There's a little problem because Lucifer's timeline contradicts DC's timeline. Michael should still be imprisoned by Sandalphon, not guarding the gates of Heaven as shown in the Spectre and other mainstream DC comics

Same proble with the Presence, there are multiple interpretation/version of the Presence that contradicts each other.
Click to expand...

????

Why isnt the other stuff not 1-A?
 
Also yeah

None of the spectres who fought Michael were the actual 1-A one

In issue 0 it was just the primal spectre force, just a hostless spectre; not the Oversoul merged one.

When they fought in the gates of heaven I'd just classify it as a outlier honestly, We see The Spectre with Azmondus as a host get 1 shot by Kali later on, when Azmondus was fighting the Spectre michael also sent down his sword and forced the spectre to stop doing something (can't remember what)

Azmondus even made a remark about the spectre obeying Michael like his master.
 
I dont think him being God's Vengeance means 1-A. Its his role, and he does draw power from the Presence but that doesnt really mean its 1-A.
 
The focus isn't "vengeance"

But the fact he carries and embodies God's *judgement* and can use to Judge people on a 1-A scale (even if you deny this, the JLA scans are explicitly Infinite Dimensional.)
 
His judgement has failed against entities who are massively below 1-A before like Nekron, the Joker (When Spectre tried to judge his soul), and the Trans.
 
@Sandman31

Okay. I suppose that makes sense. You are probably correct that it is best if you rewrite the page a bit then.

A footnote explanation about the fight with Michael is probably necessary though.
 
Sandman31 said:
His judgement has failed against entities who are massively below 1-A before like Nekron, the Joker (When Spectre tried to judge his soul), and the Trans.
Click to expand...
He couldnt judge Nekron because it lacks a soul.

That Spectre was heavily weakened, Joker himself states it.


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/499233871217557506/504935000114855936/RCO014_1467117875.jpg


Spectre's judgement still works on the Joker.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/498932804730617867/499660643100786690/ZQqpGoVo8dA.jpg


When did his Judgement fail against the Trans? Either way that would probably be the result of Hal being a inexperienced Spectre, who at that time was completely mentally broken down anyway.
 
Saying that hte Spectre has "1-A" judgement will make the Spectre's AP essentially 1-A. That is inconsistent with most if not all of his feats. Like his judgement really just him finding sinners and killing them with his reality warping powers, sometimes his judgement is even against the judgement of the Presence

Like does he have feat of judging 1-A beings?

Really, he doesnt have feats on 1-A scale but has tons of counter feat contradicting that.
 
I think that Sandman31 makes sense.
 
Sandman31 said:
Saying that hte Spectre has "1-A" judgement will make the Spectre's AP essentially 1-A. That is inconsistent with most if not all of his feats. Like his judgement really just him finding sinners and killing them with his reality warping powers, sometimes his judgement is even against the judgement of the Presence

Like does he have feat of judging 1-A beings?

Really, he doesnt have feats on 1-A scale but has tons of counter feat contradicting that.
Click to expand...
No, it wouldn't, you literally contradicted yourself by saying its reality warping hax in the same comment. And not entirely, i don't think you're getting my point, The Judgement itself *can* work on 1-A beings bssed on the scans I've shown.

Doesn't matter, the scans ive shown still prove the fact the Judgement indeed derives from the Judgement of a 1-A being.

I literally debunked the 3 counter feats you just mentioned, can you give me some actual proof?
 
Because thats what his "judgement" really does. He judges the souls of sinful men and uses his reality warping powers to punish them.

Its even on his profile

often by using his reality warping powers to give them ironic punishments, and then damning their souls to hell.

Having a 1-A as your power source doesnt mean its 1-A.
 
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