Zero Hour CRT

[Deleted member 2530]

So, we currently scale Zero Hour Parallax to 2A by assuming that the destruction is equal to Crisis on Infinite Earths based on this:

Multiverse level+ (Zero Hour would have caused destruction on a similar scale to the Crisis on Infinite Earths if The Spectre hadn’t interfered. Absorbed energy from the clash with Anti-Monitor during the Crisis)

Yet, the scans don't really compare the destructive nature of Crisis in time, make sense since there was only one Universe compared to the infinity in COIE, but rather the intervention of Spectre:

As with the Crisis, all might have been lost if not for the timely intervention of the Spectre.

So, I propose to remove this from the profile and also downgrade ZH Parallax from 2A to 2C based on his feat of creating multiple universes.

 

[Antvasima]

This makes good sense to me, but all of the other characters that scale to him also need to be downgraded.

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Kulf_Boba @LephyrTheRevanchist @Maverick_Zero_X @Lightning_XXI @Stefano4444 @LuciferX @Vasco @Excel616 @DarkDragonMedeus @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Hykuu @KingEzran @Dark-Carioca @Armorchompy @Gasper

Does this seem acceptable to you?

 

[Deagonx]

I fully agree with the downgrade. When I saw the profile and the scan I had the exact same thought. The only manner in which the two events were compared was saying that Spectres intervention saved the day.

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Executor_N0]

From what I remember, the reason for the 2-A and comparison with COIE was because he would restore the multiverse closer to what it was, restoring much of what was lost during the COIE

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The downgrade makes sense to me.

 

[Stefano4444]

Agree.

 

[Antvasima]

From what I remember, the reason for the 2-A and comparison with COIE was because he would restore the multiverse closer to what it was, restoring much of what was lost during the COIE

Can you check if you can find scans that confirm this please?

 

[Deleted member 2530]

From what I remember, the reason for the 2-A and comparison with COIE was because he would restore the multiverse closer to what it was, restoring much of what was lost during the COIE

He was going to recreate around 2-4 universes or so.

 

[Vasco]

The downgrade seems fine,but haven't read the book.

 

[Antvasima]

He was going to recreate around 2-4 universes or so.

That would change things in that case. We preferably need some scans and issue references though.

 

[LordTracer]

Downgrade is fine, but ZH Parallax would be 2-C, possibly 2-A due to scaling to Crispus Allen, who scales to the emotional entities that then scale to Superboy-Prime.

 

[Executor_N0]

Can you check if you can find scans that confirm this please?

I don't know if there were more, but the scan I remember is already on the justification. It's this panel.

I don't think that creating 2 universes would "restore much of what existed before the Crisis"

 

[Deagonx]

I don't think that creating 2 universes would "restore much of what existed before the Crisis"

At the time there were very few universes in DC.

 

[Executor_N0]

At the time there were very few universes in DC.

Before the COIE there were infinite universes, restoring two universes wouldn't be "much of what existed before" if what existed before were infinite universes.

 

[Deagonx]

Before the COIE there were infinite universes, restoring two universes wouldn't be "much of what existed before" if what existed before were infinite universes.

I see your point, but there's no such thing as a portion of infinity, so the statement is nonsensical either way.

 

[Deleted member 2530]

I don't know if there were more, but the scan I remember is already on the justification. It's this panel.

I don't think that creating 2 universes would "restore much of what existed before the Crisis"

Yet, that was all he was going to do. One for himself, One for Extant, One for JSA. He had a very finite and limited amount of energy.

 

[Excellence616]

I agree with the downgrade

 

[Firestorm808]

I don't have any issues on the top of my head.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

This checks out.

 

[LuciferX]

Agree with OP.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

to me it looks quite attractive, so I agree with what was presented.

 

[AndrewBennet]

Parallax has 2A feats from Convergence. I agree with the downgrade btw

 

[TimeTrapperFanBoy]

Downgrade is fine, but ZH Parallax would be 2-C, possibly 2-A due to scaling to Crispus Allen, who scales to the emotional entities that then scale to Superboy-Prime.

Agreed, this would also downgrade Nabu, Unrestricted Mordru, and Spectre's first 3 keys (Pre-Flashpoint Corrigan, Asmodel, and Hal Jordan) to 2-C, possibly 2-A.

 

[Deagonx]

Spectre's first 3 keys (Pre-Flashpoint Corrigan, Asmodel, and Hal Jordan) to 2-C, possibly 2-A.

There probably needs to be a revision of his unbound key as well, since the current justification is just that his powers aren't limited, but we don't have any clear feats listed since the Mxy scaling was removed.

 

[Vasco]

but we don't have any clear feats listed since the Mxy scaling was removed.

He once scaled to myx? Still I heard about a feat of spectre being higher than a certain 5th dimensional imp, how valid is it?

 

[Deagonx]

Still I heard about a feat of spectre being higher than a certain 5th dimensional imp, how valid is it?

Not valid. It was removed because all Spectre did was send him back to the Fifth Dimension, and that imps scaling to Mxy wasn't valid, among other reasons.

 

[Vasco]

Not valid. It was removed because all Spectre did was send him back to the Fifth Dimension, and that imps scaling to Mxy wasn't valid, among other reasons.

Okay just BFR then so he obviously won't scale, yeah I support that notion too since Myx and bat-mite are stated to be the most powerful imps in Rebirth so others won't scale.

Except New 52 there's an imp stronger than myx anyways, I won't derail further, you guys can continue.

 

[Deagonx]

So, this now has 5 staff agrees. Should we go ahead and update the profile and use LordTracer's recommendation of scaling him to Crispus Allen for his primary tier?

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Agreed, this would also downgrade Nabu, Unrestricted Mordru, and Spectre's first 3 keys (Pre-Flashpoint Corrigan, Asmodel, and Hal Jordan) to 2-C, possibly 2-A.

Spectre will scale to his own feats.

 

[Deagonx]

Spectre will scale to his own feats.

Agreed, this would also downgrade Nabu, Unrestricted Mordru, and Spectre's first 3 keys (Pre-Flashpoint Corrigan, Asmodel, and Hal Jordan) to 2-C, possibly 2-A.

Downgrade is fine, but ZH Parallax would be 2-C, possibly 2-A due to scaling to Crispus Allen, who scales to the emotional entities that then scale to Superboy-Prime.

Actually I just realized this is a bigger issue than I first thought. Spectre has a of scaling to Parallax, but not Crispus Allen, so we can't scale them circularly. If we are to include this stuff about Crispus scaling to the emotional entities etc, we should handle that separately because Spectre's current profile does not include any of that.

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Actually I just realized this is a bigger issue than I first thought. Spectre has a of scaling to Parallax, so we can't scale them circularly. If we are to include this stuff about Crispus scaling to the emotional entities etc, we should handle that separately because Spectre's current profile does not include any of that.

Its really difficult to scale Spectre for the most part. Though I am not really sure about the Possibly 2A scaling if its just using the Pre Crisis.

 

[Antvasima]

So, this now has 5 staff agrees. Should we go ahead and update the profile and use LordTracer's recommendation of scaling him to Crispus Allen for his primary tier?

I think that we can downgrade Parallax and all other characters that scale to him to 2-C at least.

What do you refer to regarding Crispus Allen?

 

[Deagonx]

Its really difficult to scale Spectre for the most part. Though I am not really sure about the Possibly 2A scaling if its just using the Pre Crisis.

Here are his current keys, tiers, and justifications.

Key:

Jim Corrigan (Pre-Flashpoint) - 2-A, higher with the power of Earth's sorcerers, Attack Potency: Multiverse level+ (Superior to Nabu. Was able to battle Zero Hour Parallax, although he was temporarily defeated), Multiverse level+ with the power of Earth's sorcerers (Overcame the Anti-Monitor at the dawn of time and caused the multiverse to be rewritten)

Asmodel - 2-A, Multiverse level+ (Froze Neron, and all of Hell, by removing all hellfire from it, Hell being the reflection of Heaven, an infinite multiverse. Kyle Rayner said he made Parallax look like a joke)

Hal Jordan - 2-A, Multiverse level+ (Casually imprisoned and tortured Neron. When Hal first became the Spectre he considered the power far greater than he ever had as Parallax)

Crispus Allen - 2-C, possibly 2-A, Low Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level+ (Fought on par with the Butcher and stopped it from taking Atrocitus)

Jim Corrigan (Post-Flashpoint) - 4-B, Solar System level (Equal to Post-Flashpoint Phantom Stranger)

Primal/Unbound - 2-A, possibly higher, Multiverse level+, possibly higher (The Spectre's powers are usually limited by his human host, but Unbound Spectre is not [1])

Full Power 1-A, Outerverse level (By breaking the constraint of individual identity, the Spectre accessed his true nature, a spirit merged with the Logoz. He merged with the Void beyond Voids and is directly connected to the Oversoul itself)

So, Pre-Flashpoint Corrigan can be 2-C from scaling to Nabu (Nabu is currently 2-A based on the faulty Zero Hour scaling that is currently being fixed, and doesn't have other clear 2-A feats).

Asmodel can be 2-C for scaling to Neron.

Hal Jordan can also scale to 2-C Neron

Crispus Allen is fine

Primal/Unbound needs to have a feat otherwise he should just be 2-C, possibly higher, due to unrestrained power.

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Hal Spectre has this feat:


I was thinking of redoing the Spectre's page. Either splitting the keys from Great Darkness event or just making a note I guess for Jim and Primal Spectre.

 

[Vasco]

Hal Spectre has this feat:


I was thinking of redoing the Spectre's page. Either splitting the keys from Great Darkness event or just making a note I guess for Jim and Primal Spectre.

I read this book and iirc, it's just talking about how every choices and decisions creates universes, that's an inverse mechanism in DC and Marvel though.

 

[Antvasima]

It is likely mainly referring to that we are living in the Kali Yuga and that old culture is collapsing, hopefully with a chance to build something nicer and kinder for everybody.

 

[Deagonx]

Hal Spectre has this feat:

I'd need more context but I am not sure this is tierable/an actual feat for Spectre.

I read this book and iirc, it's just talking about how every choices and decisions creates universes, that's an inverse mechanism in DC and Marvel though.

That's the impression I get as well.

 

[Deleted member 2530]

I read this book and iirc, it's just talking about how every choices and decisions creates universes, that's an inverse mechanism in DC and Marvel though.

I might have to reread it but from what I remember in the story its the power of the Logos that turns these choices into reality.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that we can downgrade Parallax and all other characters that scale to him to 2-C at least.

What do you refer to regarding Crispus Allen?