General DC Comics Discussion Thread

Antvasima said:

How is it false? Superman was elevated to a sixth-dimensional level. He is not normally of that state. However, it is definitely proof of at least 2-C (at that time the DC multiverse only had 52 universes in it).

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KirbyFan03 said:

The orrery/multiverse in its entirety has 11D at least

But yeah supes WF amps aren't something he can normally do even with prep time

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Antvasima said:

How is it false? Superman was elevated to a sixth-dimensional level. He is not normally of that state. However, it is definitely proof of at least 2-C (at that time the DC multiverse only had 52 universes in it).

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Antvasima said:

But as far as I am aware, we have had it clearly explained that going up and down the dimensional scales in DC Comics usually tends to increase or decrease the powers of the characters doing so accordingly.

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Antvasima said:

But as far as I am aware, we have had it clearly explained that going up and down the dimensional scales in DC Comics usually tends to increase or decrease the powers of the characters doing so accordingly.

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Antvasima said:

But as far as I am aware, we have had it clearly explained that going up and down the dimensional scales in DC Comics usually tends to increase or decrease the powers of the characters doing so accordingly.

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TheBestBoi said:

they're still scaled proportionally whenever they visit a higher reality. Batman isn't one shotting universes in the 6th dimension. He's still batman level in the 6th dimension, same goes for superman, he's still superman level in the 6th dimension

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Frankky123 said:

Hello Ant. Could you please take a look at my newest CRT(Superman revision)and give some input? It's been a while, and no staff has commented on it yet. I would appreciate your help

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Antvasima said:

Can you provide a link please?

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Superman's Plot Manipulation Revision DC Comic

Plot Manipulation Superman Revision Superman is already accepted to have plot manipulation here : https://www.vsbattles.com/threads/plot-manipulation-for-superboy-prime-dc-comics.191207/ But the wording in Superman's profile need to be revised because it can be misunderstood as Immortality...

vsbattles.com

Antvasima said:

Yes, proportionately, but we cannot scale sun-dipped Superman in his regular 3rd dimension as anywhere near High 1-A.

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TheBestBoi said:

I said 2-A not High 1-A, but maybe others might argue he destroyed the 11D multiverse, I don't really follow this site's logic and dimensional tiering so at most it's always been 2-A in my eyes

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Mgebrat282 said:

Hi, guys, do you know someone who can help with 1-A scaling on this site? I'd be grateful if you help me

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Mgebrat282 said:

Hi, guys, do you know someone who can help with 1-A scaling on this site? I'd be grateful if you help me

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TheBestBoi said:

I said 2-A not High 1-A, but maybe others might argue he destroyed the 11D multiverse, I don't really follow this site's logic and dimensional tiering so at most it's always been 2-A in my eyes

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Knocking down H1-A character would be listed as 2-A feat

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Hecky2222 said:

Can we disregard this feat if you all think that's outlier rather than humilating Ultima's standards????????? This is cringe and not how BDE, 1-A remotely works

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TheBestBoi said:

i don't think it's an outlier, I just wouldn't rate world forger that high or most of the DC profiles, I've never believed in the whole outerversal tier and dimensional tiering. DC themselves don't lol Mr Mxy is afraid of a 4D imp and this site has him at 1-A

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TheBestBoi said:

i don't think it's an outlier, I just wouldn't rate world forger that high or most of the DC profiles, I've never believed in the whole outerversal tier and dimensional tiering. DC themselves don't lol Mr Mxy is afraid of a 4D imp and this site has him at 1-A

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Elizio33 said:

I recently had a conversation with a friend about the “Omniverse” and the “Greater Omniverse,” and some of his arguments were genuinely interesting. I am not necessarily jumping to conclusions or assuming anything, but I wanted to share the idea and hear other perspectives on it.

His main argument was that the Omniverse and the Greater Omniverse are actually the same structure.

By the end of Dark Nights: Death Metal, the Hands restored the Local Multiverse and time itself was “unknotted,” healing and reintegrating the forgotten histories erased or fractured by previous Crises. The narrative seemed to imply that the Multiverse had expanded into its own Omniverse, which led many readers to believe that there were now effectively two “Omniverses”: the Greater Omniverse introduced by Scott Snyder and the restored Infinite Frontier cosmology.

However, Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths complicated this understanding when Lex Luthor stated: “The idea of the Omniverse is false.” At the time, the line was largely dismissed because it was vague and never directly elaborated upon. Furthermore, Flashpoint Beyond, which followed Dark Crisis, appeared to reaffirm the existence of the Omniverse rather than deny it.

But perhaps Lex was not claiming that the Omniverse itself does not exist. Rather, the implication may have been that our understanding of it is flawed.

The common interpretation during Death Metal was that the Omniverse represented a collection of Multiverses existing directly within the Overvoid itself, which more acted as a medium between them rather than the non-dual and fundamental ground of reality as Grant Morrison intended. Yet Flashpoint Beyond introduced the concept of the Divine Continuum, a larger metaphysical model divided into two complementary halves: the Omniverse, representing all spatial existence, and Hypertime, representing all temporal possibility and divergence.

Under this interpretation, the Omniverse is not the absolute totality beyond all existence, but rather one half of Creation itself, the spatial aspect of a greater continuum. In other words, what we perceived as the “Greater Omniverse” may still exist within a wider totality rather than being equivalent to the true Overvoid or ultimate reality. Under this interpretation, The Hands would effectively descend from The Overvoid/The Source, into the Omniverse in order to shape and oversee the formation of Multiverses. In that context, the “Void” described by Wally West in Dark Nights: Death Metal #1 would not necessarily be the absolute Overvoid itself, but rather The Light in its purest manifest form: the immaculate perfection that emerged from the Great Darkness at the dawn of creation, resembling an infinite white void as portrayed in Justice League Incarnate #4.

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Elizio33 said:

Simply residing within a higher plane of existence should not, in itself, warrant a higher tier.

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Elizio33 said:

I must admit that I completely agree with this perspective. Many DC Comics characters should not automatically be scaled to the full extent of the realms they inhabit without clear evidence demonstrating their ability to influence, create, destroy, sustain, or embody those realms. Simply residing within a higher plane of existence should not, in itself, warrant a higher tier.

For example, many inhabitants of the Sphere of the Gods, particularly the New Gods in their true form, have demonstrated transcendence over individual universes and conventional space-time. However, this does not necessarily mean they scale above the entirety of the Orrery of Worlds or the Bleed, despite the Sphere of the Gods being positioned above them on the Map of the Multiverse. In the case of the World Forger, I do not believe he should automatically scale to the entirety of the Sixth Dimension, as he has not even demonstrated the ability to directly affect it at all. Merely residing within or operating from the Sixth Dimension is not sufficient evidence that his power encompasses its full scope.

However, he should reasonably scale to structures that he has demonstrably created or influenced. For example, he is explicitly responsible for forging potential Multiverses and creating Hypertime, which suggests that he should scale to those constructs. Likewise, because he created a Multiverse comparable to the Orrery of Worlds having its own version of Apokolips, it is reasonable to place him at a level commensurate with those structures. In this interpretation, his scale is derived from its demonstrated creative and cosmological feats rather than solely from the Sixth Dimension's position.

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Elizio33 said:

What do you think about this ? Should we continue to consider that there is two Omniverse?

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KirbyFan03 said:

I do believe they have BDE3 via the sphere but I do think this raises a question

Do we classify 1-A existence as dura or a separate thing?

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Elizio33 said:

What do you think about this ? Should we continue to consider that there is two Omniverse?

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Hecky2222 said:

BDE 3 is straight up AP/Dura/Speed/LS stats

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Elizio33 said:

I must admit that I completely agree with this perspective. Many DC Comics characters should not automatically be scaled to the full extent of the realms they inhabit without clear evidence demonstrating their ability to influence, create, destroy, sustain, or embody those realms. Simply residing within a higher plane of existence should not, in itself, warrant a higher tier.

For example, many inhabitants of the Sphere of the Gods, particularly the New Gods in their true form, have demonstrated transcendence over individual universes and conventional space-time. However, this does not necessarily mean they scale above the entirety of the Orrery of Worlds or the Bleed, despite the Sphere of the Gods being positioned above them on the Map of the Multiverse. In the case of the World Forger, I do not believe he should automatically scale to the entirety of the Sixth Dimension, as he has not even demonstrated the ability to directly affect it at all. Merely residing within or operating from the Sixth Dimension is not sufficient evidence that his power encompasses its full scope.

However, he should reasonably scale to structures that he has demonstrably created or influenced. For example, he is explicitly responsible for forging potential Multiverses and creating Hypertime, which suggests that he should scale to those constructs. Likewise, because he created a Multiverse comparable to the Orrery of Worlds having its own version of Apokolips, it is reasonable to place him at a level commensurate with those structures. In this interpretation, his scale is derived from its demonstrated creative and cosmological feats rather than solely from the Sixth Dimension's position.

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• The World Forger created Hypertime, a significant Sixth Dimensional construct that is the time half of the Divine Continuum itself.
• The Anti-Monitor's Anti-Matter Universe's true extent went all the way to and encompassed the very boundary of the Sixth Dimension itself before reality was rewritten by the Cosmic Raptor and The Source Wall was erected. This is the reason why he hates The Monitor so much as his plan to stop Perpetua made Mobius obsolete and Mar Novu knew this would happen yet did not say anything.
• Each of the Three Brothers has total control over their respective third of the Tripartite Creation. Each of the Three Domains is equal to the other and as shown by the Anti-Matter Universe's true extent, they are significantly above baseline Sixth Dimensional.
• The World Forger was going to rewrite all of reality again to set Creation back on the path of Justice away from Doom to prevent being destroyed along with it by the judgement of the Hands.
• The Three Brothers created the Omega Titans to repair damage to the Source Wall at every level of reality up until and including the True Source Wall surrounding the Sixth dimension

Elizio33 said:

What do you think about this ? Should we continue to consider that there is two Omniverse?

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PromptedElephant641 said:

This is already the way things are done. For example a being like Mr Mxyzptlk does not scale to the entirety of the Fifth Dimension in the same way you or I do not scale to the entire universe just for living in it. However, unlike you or I, Mr Mxyzptlk has demonstrated the ability to manipulate reality in the Fifth Dimension to a non insignificant degree.

As for the Monitor Brother Trio, they are all far above baseline Sixth Dimensional. As we discussed a few pages back:

• The World Forger created Hypertime, a significant Sixth Dimensional construct that is the time half of the Divine Continuum itself.
• The Anti-Monitor's Anti-Matter Universe's true extent went all the way to and encompassed the very boundary of the Sixth Dimension itself before reality was rewritten by the Cosmic Raptor and The Source Wall was erected. This is the reason why he hates The Monitor so much as his plan to stop Perpetua made Mobius obsolete and Mar Novu knew this would happen yet did not say anything.
• Each of the Three Brothers has total control over their respective third of the Tripartite Creation. Each of the Three Domains is equal to the other and as shown by the Anti-Matter Universe's true extent, they are significantly above baseline Sixth Dimensional.
• The World Forger was going to rewrite all of reality again to set Creation back on the path of Justice away from Doom to prevent being destroyed along with it by the judgement of the Hands.

There is definitely two different Omniverses.

There is the Greater Omniverse containing infinite Creations made by the Infinite Hands of the Source. (Another of these Creations has never been depicted or visited by any of the heroes of the Divine Continuum and hopefully it stays this way.)

There is the Local Omniverse / Divine Continuum / Infinite Frontier. This is the Creation made by Perpetua. After the end of Death Metal, a few Hands rewrote this Creation such that every version of it, including retconned, destroyed, erased, and forgotten realities were brought back and merged together. This includes ALL universes and realities ever depicted all the way from the beginning of DC publication. As such this Creation was expanded in a way as all versions existed along side each other simultaneously. Contrary to what some may believe, The Source Wall around the Local Omniverse was reinstated after the end of Death metal and has appeared on numerous occasions since then. In its true form it encompasses the entire Local Omniverse just as it used to.

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Elizio33 said:

While i agree that Hypertime extend to the Sixth Dimension, I do not believe that the true extent of the three realms monitored by Perpetua’s children (Orrery, Antimatter Universe, and Dark Multiverse) reaches the Sixth Dimension. They are an integral part of the material Multiverse made by Perpetua within the Sixth Dimension. They are based on three different forms of matter, and the Omniverse contains the Speed Force Wall where matter is converted into pure information, or the Comic Book Limbo where matter and memory break down. Perpetua created a multiversal structure made in a tripartite form while other higher structures came after.

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PromptedElephant641 said:

While many of the structures in the DC emerged on their own after creation. The true extent of each of the three types of Multiverses extend all the way to the edges of the Sixth Dimension itself as can be seen with the Anti-Matter Universe originally serving as the Source Wall which encompassed and separated everything. Things like the Orrery of Worlds, the single Anti-Matter Universe of Qward, and the degenerate worlds of the Dark Multiverse are merely material components of these larger structures contained inside the Speed Force wall which separates the physical from the metaphysical.

While things like Comic Book Limbo did not come into being until long after creation, it is still located in the "Positive Matter" component of the Tripartite reality. We already know that there is a Dark Sphere of the Gods which is contained in the "Dark Matter" component of the Tripartite reality. While realms such as Limbo were not original components of existence, they came into being later in one of the three components of the Tripartite reality. Whether there is a "Dark Matter" version of Comic Book Limbo or if there is a Dark Matter version of the Fifth Dimension or any other layer of reality is unknown as they have not been shown or described. What we do know is that all of the normal realms of the DC are contained in the "Positive Matter" component. We known that all three realms are equal in cosmological significance and scale. We also know that the "Anti-Matter" component contains nothing as it is inherently hostile and anathema to existence of all kinds including the Matter and Dark Matter components of reality. The existence of the Anti-Matter universe of Qward, in physical reality, is an anomaly as is stated in The DC Book: A Vast and Vibrant multiverse Simply Explained.

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KirbyFan03 said:

There's also matter in DC being a bit messed up

For example even by Morrisons stuff things beyond the speedforce wall is pure information but it still has some form of matter

And in the whole atworld stuff regarding Joe in the 2019 GL stuff (I'll get the scans)

Anti matter can destroy atworld which is an im2 reality

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PromptedElephant641 said:

That’s more of a writing restriction. As it is very difficult to portray transcendent realms without using material terminology especially in comic books where there are word limitations. A transcendent realm can have its own version of matter that has nothing to do with the material of our physical world.

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==Introduction==

===Canon over Continuity===

===Caveat #1: Usage of Dimensions===

The term “dimension” is used inconsistently throughout DC Comics and should not always be interpreted through the lens of real-world physics or higher-dimensional geometry. Depending on the author and context, dimensions may refer to parallel worlds or metaphysical planes itself. While certain stories employ mathematical or geometric terminology, others, particularly works by Scott Snyder, use dimensions more conceptually or metafictionally, treating them as frameworks governing aspects of reality such as time, imagination, or governing layers of existence rather than strictly additional spatial axes.

===Caveat #2: "Universe," "Multiverse," "World," "Planet," and "Creation"===

Any one of the above terms can be used to refer to the totality of everything. Context is king here. Do not assume that because your favorite character can destroy the "Multiverse" that they can destroy all of the Map. Likewise, do not assume that because your least favorite character says "universe" that they mean a single, physics-based spacetime continuum.

===Caveat #3: Vertical Cosmological Hierarchies and Interactions between Dimensional Structures===

Although DC cosmology is frequently presented through vertical or hierarchical models of existence, it should not always be interpreted as a purely linear structure in which every higher realm absolutely transcends all lower ones in a simple chain of superiority.

While certain domains are indeed portrayed as more fundamental, exterior, or metaphysically superior to others, many cosmological structures instead function as intersecting, overlapping, or orthogonal systems that interact across multiple layers of reality simultaneously. Their relationships are therefore often contextual rather than strictly hierarchical.

Structures such as the Bleed, Hypertime, and various transdimensional realms frequently operate less as conventional “higher planes” and more as connective, governing, or mediating structures that interface with numerous aspects of creation at once. As a result, their role within the cosmology cannot always be accurately represented through straightforward dimensional stacking alone.
Consequently, DC cosmology is better understood not merely as a ladder of increasingly transcendent realms, but also as a complex network of interconnected cosmological systems whose relationships may vary depending on narrative, metaphysical function, or perspective.

Thus, cosmological relationships may operate not only through simple hierarchical progression such as:

A → B → C → D

but also through more complex interactions such as:

but also through more complex interactions such as:

A contains B,
B overlaps with C,
C interfaces with D,
D reflects or mirrors A,

This distinction is important because spatial superiority, metaphysical transcendence, narrative function, and dimensional containment are not always treated as identical concepts within DC cosmology.

===Caveat: #4: Metafictional Interactions and Earth-33===

==The Structure of Existence: The Divine Continuum==

===The Spatial Aspect of the Divine Continuum: The Omniverse===

===The Temporal Aspect of the Divine Continuum: Hypertime===

==The Material Realms of the Omniverse==

===The Tripartite Form of the Multiverse===

====The Orrery of Worlds====

=====Structure of a Single Universe=====

======Three-Dimensional Size======

======Spatial Dimensions======

======Temporal Dimensions======

=======Hypertimelines and Variables of Individual Universes=======

=====The Metaverse: (Earth-0/Prime Earth)=====

=====Total Number of Universes in the Orrery=====

====Higher Spatial Dimensions of the Orrery=====

====The Antimatter Universe====

====The Dark Multiverse====

===Alternate Multiverses===

===The Bleed===

===The Subtle Realms and Liminal Structures of the Material Realms===

====The Speed Force Wall====

====The Timestream====

====Wonderworld====

====Buffer Zone Behind Realities: The Great Light====

==The Metaphysical Realms of the Omniverse==

===The Elemental Realms===

===Lords of Chaos and Order===

===The Sphere of the Gods===

====Nature of the inhabitants of the Sphere of the Gods====

====Mortals and the Sphere of the Gods====

====Collective Unconscious and Outer Place====

=====Dreams, Beliefs, and Stories Defining Creation=====

====The Silver City, Heaven, and Hell====

====The Godworlds: (Urgrund, New Genesis, and Apokolips)====

====Skyland and Underworld====

====Dreaming and Nightmare====

===Comic Book Limbo===

===The Monitor Sphere===

==The Governing Layers of the Divine Continuum==

===The Fourth Dimension===

===The Fifth Dimension===

===The Sixth Dimension===

==The Final Barrier between the Divine Continuum and the Greater Omniverse: Promethean Galaxy and the Source Wall==

==Beyond the Divine Continuum: The Greater Omniverse==

===Mother Night, Father Time, and the True Extent of the Endless===

===Hierarchy of Emanation===

===The Light of Creation===

===The Great Darkness===

===The Primordial Darkness: (God's Unconscious)===

==The Source/The Presence/The Overvoid==

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Elizio33 said:

Also, many ingnored this, but a considerably injured World Forger was able to open rifts through worlds beyond the Divine Continuum, those of the Greater Omniverse in DC KO: Boss Battle (2026) #1. This is an impressive feat, consistent with Mar Novu who managed to expand his cosmic sight to the Greater Omniverse to see the neighboring Multiverses.

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