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Sosuke Aizen vs Asriel Dreemurr

Considering that the majority of these were trolls or bleach supporters, I wouldn't really trust it.

Besides, that wouldn't really affect Asriel, now that I think, as his mind is not bound to the SOULs inside him, as they're all just separated entities he absorbed, and normally he's soulless.

Meaning that he'd still not gonna be bothered by Reiatsu and still think Aizen outta existence 🗿
Uh yeah, soul crush does affect DB characters, it's a big reason why most bleach vs DB threads were considered as stomps

Either way, this thread is pointless as bleach is going through major revisions

Literally no bleach supporter is going to debate for this so thread is kinda pointless
 
Uh yeah, soul crush does affect DB characters, it's a big reason why most bleach vs DB threads were considered as stomps

Either way, this thread is pointless as bleach is going through major revisions
Major revisions? So would it make this match a stomp in Aizen's favor?
 
Well the Hogyoku is automatic and has mind reading so not really impossible to effect each individual souls with fate manip
Prove it stops Asriel from nuking the verse right away.
Well it should still be listed like (Limited info type 2) besides the time manipulation ability
Simply using a concept to do something is not conceptual manipulation as you're not manipulating said concept.
Also there's this: (It should be noted however that if an individual is determined enough they can override Flowey's ability to do this, thus making Flowey lose his SAVE powers)
This is made up, as the ACTUAL weakness on profile is this:

The existence of someone with a higher amount of Determination (as it exists in Undertale) would result in the inability of beings with lesser amounts of it from using their power to SAVE and LOAD, due to the control over the timeline being inherited to only the one with the highest amount of Determination.

Aizen would need to have the exact same DT as it is in UT, which is not simple willpower, but something that can be physically extracted by SOULs.
It's not impossible for Hogyoku's fate manip to make Aizen adapt to the point he's equal/more determined than Flowey which makes Flowey lose his save powers
NLF as Aizen is not an Undertale character.
 
Prove it stops Asriel from nuking the verse right away.

Simply using a concept to do something is not conceptual manipulation as you're not manipulating said concept.

This is made up, as the ACTUAL weakness on profile is this:

The existence of someone with a higher amount of Determination (as it exists in Undertale) would result in the inability of beings with lesser amounts of it from using their power to SAVE and LOAD, due to the control over the timeline being inherited to only the one with the highest amount of Determination.

Aizen would need to have the exact same DT as it is in UT, which is not simple willpower, but something that can be physically extracted by SOULs.

NLF as Aizen is not an Undertale character.
Well the fear hax from Aizen's reiatsu would allow make the souls in Asriel to be unbound. Also Aizen can activate his illusions to make Asriel see him as Chara (the Hogyoku's mind reading and fate manip would make that happen)

Well Flowey's time manip should be specified as info time manip. A good example of this is Ichibei as all of his abilities are specified to be conceptual

Wdym made up? It's on Flowey's official profile

Well couldn't verse equalization fix that?
 
Well the fear hax from Aizen's reiatsu would allow make the souls in Asriel to be unbound.
Baseless claim.
Also Aizen can activate his illusions to make Asriel see him as Chara (the Hogyoku's mind reading and fate manip would make that happen)
Aizen doesn't even know what a Chara is.
Well Flowey's time manip should be specified as info time manip. A good example of this is Ichibei as all of his abilities are specified to be conceptual
Nah, it's just Time Hax based on a Type 2 information thing, rather than the Time Hax in itself being mixed with info manip.

It's like me using the concept of matter to create weapons, but it does not make said weapons conceptual.
Wdym made up? It's on Flowey's official profile
It's not, I even quoted what's actually in the profile.
Well couldn't verse equalization fix that?
Then there'd be the issue of Aizen actually being able to control said DT, as Flowey had to discover the full scope of the ability through an accident. Aizen himself is not aware of what DT is, so he wouldn't be able to use it anyway.
 
Asriel thought Frisk was Chara the entire fight, and you know how that went.
Now that I think about it, even if we assume it does, Asriel still planned to instantly use the TRUE RESET, had it not for Frisk's DT stopping Asriel.

I do not think it's too far to say that Asriel would notice that "Chara" has no DT at all and would still go with TRUE RESET anyway.
 
So being in in an illusion does not matter, because the throughts still affect reality.
Aizen's illusions are based on perception manipulation, and even looking at Aizen in the tybw key causes you to fall under the influence of perception manipulation.If Asriel is caught, Aizen can show Asriel illusions of himself dying (due to cosmology nuke or information level erase).
 
Aizen's illusions are based on perception manipulation, and even looking at Aizen in the tybw key causes you to fall under the influence of perception manipulation.If Asriel is caught, Aizen can show Asriel illusions of himself dying (due to cosmology nuke or information level erase).
Even THEN, LOAD still makes this a non-issue if Asriel "dies", or also he can still pull the "but it refused".
 
Baseless claim.

Aizen doesn't even know what a Chara is.

Nah, it's just Time Hax based on a Type 2 information thing, rather than the Time Hax in itself being mixed with info manip.

It's like me using the concept of matter to create weapons, but it does not make said weapons conceptual.

It's not, I even quoted what's actually in the profile.

Then there'd be the issue of Aizen actually being able to control said DT, as Flowey had to discover the full scope of the ability through an accident. Aizen himself is not aware of what DT is, so he wouldn't be able to use it anyway.
Wdym baseless? If you don't have resist to fear manip, you would get effected by the reiatsu's fear manip


Aizen doesn't but the Hogyoku would via mind reading. It would alter Aizen's illusions via fate manip so it can protect itself

Then couldn't Aizen just powernull Flowey's access to the save?

Really? Well this is what I see in my screen regarding the weakness



Well once Aizen gains an ability, he would instantly know how it functions like when he gain teleportation (able to use it perfectly on first try) as the Hogyoku itself gives info to Aizen
 
Wdym baseless? If you don't have resist to fear manip, you would get effected by the reiatsu's fear manip
This does not mean it magically makes the SOULs separated from Asriel, especially when he has complete control over them to the point of reweriting their memories.
Aizen doesn't but the Hogyoku would via mind reading. It would alter Aizen's illusions via fate manip so it can protect itself
Nothing really stops a 2-B potent Time Reset combined with Reality Warping kek.
Really? Well this is what I see in my screen regarding the weakness
It's just a simplified version, the Weakness section elaborated on it way more.
Well once Aizen gains an ability, he would instantly know how it functions like when he gain teleportation (able to use it perfectly on first try) as the Hogyoku itself gives info to Aizen
Except that Flowey had to try to off himself to learn what DT actually does.
 
Even THEN, LOAD still makes this a non-issue if Asriel "dies", or also he can still pull the "but it refused".
Unless there is something additional that prevents Aizen from perceptually manipulating Asriel and immobilizing him for more than an hour by playing with his perception of time, it looks like Aizen could win.
 
Unless there is something additional that prevents Aizen from perceptually manipulating Asriel and immobilizing him for more than an hour by playing with his perception of time, it looks like Aizen could win.
Then this would be a stomp regardless as there Asriel would be fully incapacitated...

(Also is that shit passive?)

Regardless, it'd be a mismatch anyway, as either Aizen illusions, or Asriel nukes, no in-between.
 
This does not mean it magically makes the SOULs separated from Asriel, especially when he has complete control over them to the point of reweriting their memories.

Nothing really stops a 2-B potent Time Reset combined with Reality Warping kek.

It's just a simplified version, the Weakness section elaborated on it way more.

Except that Flowey had to try to off himself to learn what DT actually does.
Well the fear would still effect them regardless and creates unstability within Asriel

It stops the time reset as you said before that the reason Asriel doesn't use info ee as first move, it's because he sees Frisk as Chara

Hm ok

Hogyoku has mind reading remember? It would obtain the DT knowledge from him directly and transfer it to Aizen passively
 
Then this would be a stomp regardless as there Asriel would be fully incapacitated...

(Also is that shit passive?)

Regardless, it'd be a mismatch anyway, as either Aizen illusions, or Asriel nukes, no in-between.
Aizen's illusions is not really passive as he would need to manually activate it to convert his reiatsu (which is why Ichigo didn't got effected when he and Aizen fought Yhwach together)
 
Well the fear would still effect them regardless and creates unstability within Asriel
The SOULs are completely under Asriel's control and they do not have any free will. They won't feel anything as they're completely brainwashed and without memories.
It stops the time reset as you said before that the reason Asriel doesn't use info ee as first move, it's because he sees Frisk as Chara
It's because of Frisk having enough DT to prevent Asriel from using it, you very conveniently skipped that part.
 
The SOULs are completely under Asriel's control and they do not have any free will. They won't feel anything as they're completely brainwashed and without memories.

It's because of Frisk having enough DT to prevent Asriel from using it, you very conveniently skipped that part.
Well it can be countered by empathic manip (which fear manip is apart of) like from Frisk's

If that's true, why would Asriel needs to activate his Hypergoner (his info ee) in the fight with Frisk anyway?
 
Also is that shit passive?)
Sight-based, if you see Aizen releasing his sword in the first keys, if you see Aizen in the Tybw key, you are under its influence. Moreover, if there had been time to prepare, it would have spread this effect to the around.
Regardless, it'd be a mismatch anyway, as either Aizen illusions, or Asriel nukes, no in-between.
This will depend on the starting distance between them.
Aizen's illusions is not really passive as he would need to manually activate it to convert his reiatsu (which is why Ichigo didn't got effected when he and Aizen fought Yhwach together)
This only applies when Aizen want to spread influence around.
 
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Honestly, Asriel should win this because Aizen is more likely to fvck around, he had a lot of chances to kill several characters but did not because reasons, even when the characters are under the effect of his illusions, and since there's no Chara here, Asriel has no reasons to start a conversation
 
Sight-based, if you see Aizen releasing his sword in the first keys, if you see Aizen in the Tybw key, you are under its influence. Moreover, if there had been time to prepare, it would have spread this effect to the around.

This will depend on the starting distance between them.

This only applies when Aizen want to spread influence around.
Well it was stated here that Aizen didn't show the release to Ichigo which is why he is uneffected. So there is manual activation before it became sight based

 
4 km from SBA.

You know that still didn't destabilize anything right?

You played Understory according to what I'm reading lol.
Well because Frisk only effected a few souls, not everything. But since Aizen's reiatsu has universal range, it can every soul inside Asriel
 
This doesn't say that it'll destabilize him.

Stop with the baseless assumptions.
It would destabilize as Flowey's power is bound to the souls (mainly the humans) for his power. We can see this in action as when the human souls rebelled against Photoshop Flowey, he loses his power

 
It would destabilize as Flowey's power is bound to the souls (mainly the humans) for his power. We can see this in action as when the human souls rebelled against Photoshop Flowey, he loses his power


Too bad! Asriel's control over the SOULs is far better than his Photoshop Flowey self, as unlike the lesser form, he also wiped out their memories.

And even then, Flowey lost power because the SOULs actively rebelled against him, not because of them being scared of Frisk.
 
Too bad! Asriel's control over the SOULs is far better than his Photoshop Flowey self, as unlike the lesser form, he also wiped out their memories.

And even then, Flowey lost power because the SOULs actively rebelled against him, not because of them being scared of Frisk.
Well it seems it can still be effected by a simple empathic manip
Aizen's fear manip would be able to effect them. And I still haven't included the Fate manip from Hogyoku to protect itself and granting Aizen desires
 
By breaking Asriel's control over the souls within him
Making the souls feeling fear doesn't make him lose power.

Frisk's hax didn't either, he just convinced Asriel to give up through appealing to his buried down emotions thanks to said SOULs, something that Aizen isn't doing lol.

You're just stonewalling at this point so I'll just ask for this to get closed, as everyone except you agrees with this being a stomp.
 
Making the souls feeling fear doesn't make him lose power.

Frisk's hax didn't either, he just convinced Asriel to give up through appealing to his buried down emotions thanks to said SOULs, something that Aizen isn't doing lol.

You're just stonewalling at this point so I'll just ask for this to get closed, as everyone except you agrees with this being a stomp.
Aizen can do it to all the souls within asriel via his uni range of reiatsu and most importantly, fate manipulation

Pretty sure someone here agrees that Aizen would win
Unless there is something additional that prevents Aizen from perceptually manipulating Asriel and immobilizing him for more than an hour by playing with his perception of time, it looks like Aizen could win.
 
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