Sosuke Aizen vs Asriel Dreemurr

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T08:59:05+0000

Sosuke Aizen

Sōsuke Aizen (藍あい染ぜん惣そう右す介け, Aizen Sōsuke?) is the former captain of the 5th Division in the Gotei 13. He later leaves Soul Society with his followers, Gin Ichimaru and Kaname Tōsen. His lieutenant was Momo Hinamori. He formerly served as the lieutenant of the 5th Division under Shinji Hirako...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Asriel Dreemurr (Flowey)

Flowey the Flower is one of the main antagonists in Undertale. He first appears in the Ruin, attempting to kill Frisk for their soul before being chased by Toriel. Following this event, the flower will stalk Frisk through the Underground, something appearing to mock them before culminating in...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Asriel at his God of Hyperdeath base key

Speed equalized

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T08:59:31+0000

Should be a fair fight since both can tank each other basic hits

FoxySonicMaster108 · 2025-01-12T09:22:06+0000

Idk man I think Asriel might just destroy Aizen with a singular attack. Seriously though, Aizen just dies meanwhile Aizen cannot even do so much as scratch Asriel. Insane mismatch honestly (and that’s only because Aizen’s Mid-Godly)

EDIT: Actually never mind Asriel also has Existence Erasure that affects Information Type 2 I’m pretty sure so that would make Mid-Godly useless anyway, close this.

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T09:24:18+0000

FoxySonicMaster108 said:
Idk man I think Asriel might just destroy Aizen with a singular attack meanwhile Aizen cannot even do so much as scratch him. Insane mismatch honestly (and that’s only because Aizen’s Mid-Godly)

Aizen has his perception manip and sealings as wincon. The mid godly regen would allow him to resist the first few waves of Asriel attacks

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T09:28:38+0000

FoxySonicMaster108 said:
Idk man I think Asriel might just destroy Aizen with a singular attack. Seriously though, Aizen just dies meanwhile Aizen cannot even do so much as scratch Asriel. Insane mismatch honestly (and that’s only because Aizen’s Mid-Godly)

EDIT: Actually never mind Asriel also has Existence Erasure that affects Information Type 2 I’m pretty sure so that would make Mid-Godly useless anyway, close this.

Also Asriel only uses his info existence erasure (the Hypergoner) at the very end of his first phase fight. So he doesn't use it as his first move in character

FoxySonicMaster108 · 2025-01-12T09:45:51+0000

Johner2133451 said:
Aizen has his perception manip and sealings as wincon. The mid godly regen would allow him to resist the first few waves of Asriel attacks

I don’t even think stuff like Hado 90 (assuming that’s what you mean by “sealings”) would affect Asriel because Aizen is just that much weaker. And even if it did, it is NOT killing him, ESPECIALLY considering stuff like SAVE and LOAD. Even with Aizen’s Kyōka Suigetsu (yes I’m aware it works on Yhwach too) this is just a mismatch, because messing with his senses will not be able to do anything meaningful in actually defeating Asriel (If I recall right, but I’m free to be corrected on) because Aizen just does not have the AP to kill him.

Still a mismatch in my mind.

StrymULTRA · 2025-01-12T09:49:47+0000

Johner2133451 said:
Aizen has his perception manip and sealings as wincon.

My guy do you realize that Asriel leads with one of these:

Type 2 Info Erasure
Time Reset that basically warps the entire multiverse to the point of deleting also the memories of Type 1 acasuals.

Both are thought-based too, mind you.

Johner2133451 said:
The mid godly regen would allow him to resist the first few waves of Asriel attacks

Info 2 EE needs High-Godly. Mid Godly does not cover fundamental aspects.

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T09:54:50+0000

FoxySonicMaster108 said:
I don’t even think stuff like Hado 90 (assuming that’s what you mean by “sealings”) would affect Asriel because Aizen is just that much weaker. And even if it did, it is NOT killing him, ESPECIALLY considering stuff like SAVE and LOAD. Even with Aizen’s Kyōka Suigetsu (yes I’m aware it works on Yhwach too) this is just a mismatch, because messing with his senses will not be able to do anything meaningful in actually defeating Asriel (If I recall right, but I’m free to be corrected on) because Aizen just does not have the AP to kill him.

Still a mismatch in my mind.

Not that

Sealing and Paralysis Inducement (Has an in depth mastery over Bakudō, which even at its most basic levels can paralyze)

Also Aizen's illusions would make him think that he's not in a seal, effectively trapping him

StrymULTRA said:
My guy do you realize that Asriel leads with one of these:

Type 2 Info Erasure

Time Reset that basically warps the entire multiverse to the point of deleting also the memories of Type 1 acasuals.

Both are thought-based too, mind you.

Info 2 EE needs High-Godly. Mid Godly does not cover fundamental aspects.

Well if it's thought based, why not being not listed in his profile? Like Grand Priest's profile https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Grand_Priest_(DBS_Manga)

Also Asriel only uses his basic attacks for his first moves (like his fight with Frisk)

StrymULTRA · 2025-01-12T10:03:38+0000

Here we go with the most common misconceptions on Asriel! I love to destroy these:

Johner2133451 said:
Sealing and Paralysis Inducement (Has an in depth mastery over Bakudō, which even at its most basic levels can paralyze)
Also Aizen's illusions would make him think that he's not in a seal, effectively trapping him

None of that stops a cosmology wipe/TRUE RESET. And this is the same Asriel who casually destroys timelines in his fight. Illusions ain't stopping that.

Johner2133451 said:
Well if it's thought based, why not being not listed in his profile?

Lazy. Plus you can see the justification on Photoshop Flowey's profile to figure why it is.

Johner2133451 said:
Also Asriel only uses his basic attacks for his first moves (like his fight with Frisk)

That's because Frisk specifically resists almost everything Asriel does. Plus Asriel was holding back because of him believing that was Chara, his best friend, and was only fighting to make them give up, not insta-kill them.

Here Aizen is just a worthless random that Asriel wants out of the way.

I'd reccomend to read more elaborated reasons here:

Post in thread 'Marisa vs Asriel'

Aug 28, 2024

Quibster said:
I'm leaning inconclusive for now.

The fact that Asriel starts in a weaker form and Marisa's access to Ability Cards makes this less one-sided. Cards just make Marisa harder to kill, and as long as she's hitting Asriel with projectiles/lasers, she'll accrue more resources off of Spirit Manipulation to maintain her card's effects, and drain his energy in tandum to that. The question at that point becomes; Will Asriel snap out of his god complex power trip before he's overwhelmed? They both have means of killing each other, for sure.

Asriel was holding back and merely playing against...

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T10:14:41+0000

StrymULTRA said:
Here we go with the most common misconceptions on Asriel! I love to destroy these:

None of that stops a cosmology wipe/TRUE RESET. And this is the same Asriel who casually destroys timelines in his fight. Illusions ain't stopping that.

Lazy. Plus you can see the justification on Photoshop Flowey's profile to figure why it is.

That's because Frisk specifically resists almost everything Asriel does. Plus Asriel was holding back because of him believing that was Chara, his best friend, and was only fighting to make them give up, not insta-kill them.

Here Aizen is just a worthless random that Asriel wants out of the way.

I'd reccomend to read more elaborated reasons here:

Post in thread 'Marisa vs Asriel'

Aug 28, 2024

Quibster said:

I'm leaning inconclusive for now.

The fact that Asriel starts in a weaker form and Marisa's access to Ability Cards makes this less one-sided. Cards just make Marisa harder to kill, and as long as she's hitting Asriel with projectiles/lasers, she'll accrue more resources off of Spirit Manipulation to maintain her card's effects, and drain his energy in tandum to that. The question at that point becomes; Will Asriel snap out of his god complex power trip before he's overwhelmed? They both have means of killing each other, for sure.

Click to expand...

Asriel was holding back and merely playing against...

StrymULTRA

Asriel would still think he has erased everything if he's under illusions

Sorry but I learn from my last mistake is not taking people's words seriously if they don't have the ability on their profile

Post in thread 'Mahoraga vs Mayuri Kurotsuchi'

Wednesday at 19:20

Johner2133451 said:
Thing is I already talked with the JJK supporters and see threads related with Mahoraga and they mentioned Mahoraga has no soul due to him made of shadows and energy so should be immune to soul crush

In that case, it should have been on the profile.
But since it's not on the profile, then well...

Where it was stated that Asriel was holding back because believing it was chara

StrymULTRA · 2025-01-12T10:26:27+0000

Johner2133451 said:
Asriel would still think he has erased everything if he's under illusions

You do realize that his thoughts affect the very cosmology they're in, right?

Johner2133451 said:
Sorry but I learn from my last mistake is not taking people's words seriously if they don't have the ability on their profile

You literally can see the scan on Asriel's profile...

Data Manipulation, Text Manipulation and limited Information Manipulation (Type 2; Was able to manipulate the game's files, thus changing the intro of the game, overwriting the title to "FLOWEYTALE" and replacing Frisk's datas on the SAVE File with his own)
Greater Time Manipulation (Can load back to his multitude of save files at will)
Existence Erasure (Erased Frisk's SAVE File. Supposedly erased the entire Underground and everything in it, leaving a black void, although it's debateable if it actually happened due to him later admitting that he needs a 7th SOUL to destroy humanity, and if the Barrier was actually limiting him from reaching the outside world)

All of that, as you can see, is Thought-based.

Unless you say me what action Asriel did to activate his hax.

Johner2133451 said:
Where it was stated that Asriel was holding back because believing it was chara

In the game, ya know. You really did not check my post, and it's a red flag.

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T11:02:19+0000

StrymULTRA said:
You do realize that his thoughts affect the very cosmology they're in, right?

You literally can see the scan on Asriel's profile...

Data Manipulation, Text Manipulation and limited Information Manipulation (Type 2; Was able to manipulate the game's files, thus changing the intro of the game, overwriting the title to "FLOWEYTALE" and replacing Frisk's datas on the SAVE File with his own)

Greater Time Manipulation (Can load back to his multitude of save files at will)

Existence Erasure (Erased Frisk's SAVE File. Supposedly erased the entire Underground and everything in it, leaving a black void, although it's debateable if it actually happened due to him later admitting that he needs a 7th SOUL to destroy humanity, and if the Barrier was actually limiting him from reaching the outside world)

All of that, as you can see, is Thought-based.

Unless you say me what action Asriel did to activate his hax.

In the game, ya know. You really did not check my post, and it's a red flag.

Yeah so?

Still, if you have seen the matchup I send, the scalers outright says you still need the ability to be listed even if the reasonings is hinting towards one. Also pretty sure Asriel needs to use his hyper goner to perform info ee in his god of hyperdeath key

Ok I'll trust you on that but couldn't Aizen use his illusions to make Asriel thinks he's chara or chara being present there? Also could Asriel overcome Aizen's soul absorption and transmutation?

StrymULTRA · 2025-01-12T11:07:26+0000

Johner2133451 said:
Yeah so?

So being in in an illusion does not matter, because the throughts still affect reality. Unless you show me feats of Aizen's illusions countering 4D abilities.

Johner2133451 said:
Still, if you have seen the matchup I send, the scalers outright says you still need the ability to be listed even if the reasonings is hinting towards one. Also pretty sure Asriel needs to use his hyper goner to perform info ee in his god of hyperdeath key

Asriel is an evolved form of Photoshop Flowey who did it with a thought. You'd have to prove that his EE has regressed.

Johner2133451 said:
Ok I'll trust you on that but couldn't Aizen use his illusions to make Asriel thinks he's chara or chara being present there?

How would Aizen know that?

Johner2133451 said:
Soul Absorption & Statistics Amplification (Aizen is able to feed Souls to the Hōgyoku to boost its power)

SAVE and LOAD would easily revert that, especially given that Aizen does not have any Acausality.

Johner2133451 said:
Biological Manipulation, Transmutation, Limited Deconstruction, Statistics Amplification & Statistics Reduction (With the Hōgyoku, Aizen can induce Hollowfication onto Souls, depending on their level of Strength they either disintegrated or transformed into a Hollow, This causes them to gain the inherent characteristics of Hollows such as gaining a large amount of strength at the cost of massively decreasing their intelligence)

SAVE and LOAD gg, or Low-Godly regen gg.

But even THEN, Aizen still has nothing that realistically stops Asriel from an instant 2-B nuke.

Bernkastelll · 2025-01-12T11:11:41+0000

Johner2133451 said:
Ok I'll trust you on that but couldn't Aizen use his illusions to make Asriel thinks he's chara or chara being present there? Also could Asriel overcome Aizen's soul absorption and transmutation?

Aizen: What the fvck is a Chara?

Johner2133451 said:
Also could Asriel overcome Aizen's soul absorption and transmutation?

Soul Absorption & Statistics Amplification (Aizen is able to feed Souls to the Hōgyoku to boost its power)

Biological Manipulation, Transmutation, Limited Deconstruction, Statistics Amplification & Statistics Reduction (With the Hōgyoku, Aizen can induce Hollowfication onto Souls, depending on their level of Strength they either disintegrated or transformed into a Hollow, This causes them to gain the inherent characteristics of Hollows such as gaining a large amount of strength at the cost of massively decreasing their intelligence)

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T11:16:04+0000

StrymULTRA said:
So being in in an illusion does not matter, because the throughts still affect reality. Unless you show me feats of Aizen's illusions countering 4D abilities.

Asriel is an evolved form of Photoshop Flowey who did it with a thought. You'd have to prove that his EE has regressed.

How would Aizen know that?

SAVE and LOAD would easily revert that, especially given that Aizen does not have any Acausality.

SAVE and LOAD gg, or Low-Godly regen gg.

But even THEN, Aizen still has nothing that realistically stops Asriel from an instant 2-B nuke.

Technically Aizen's illusions can effect Almighty which is a 4D ability as it can being used to destroy Garganta

Enhanced Illusion Creation and Perception Manipulation (After his imprisonment, Aizen can subtly place people under his illusions just by using his Reiatsu and without drawing his sword, subtly manipulating their senses, including their sense of time. Even the immense precognitive powers of The Almighty could not counter Kyōka Suigetsu's illusions, which were capable of affecting its vision of the future)

Yhwach

Yhwach (ユーハバッハ, Yūhabahha?) is the Father of the Quincy, the monarch of the Wandenreich, and the son of the Soul King, known by the designation "A" - The Almighty. As a baby, Yhwach was incapable of sight, speech, or even the slightest movement, but never feared or despaired, as he knew he would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

No, problem is photoshop flowey's ability is not listed as thought based like in Grand Priest's profile + Asriel in character needs to activate his hyper goner to do a mass info ee nuke

Aizen has cosmic awareness so that may could count

Hm ok

Technically Asriel when transmutated into a hollow, he doesn't die but his intelligence gets a massive decrease so he would just try randomly consume souls around instead of ee everything

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T11:20:02+0000

Also forgot that Aizen has hogyoku which has mind reading. He could use the fate manip to let his illusions make Asriel see him as chara so Aizen doesn't get info nuked

Reality Warping & Mind Reading (The true power of the Hōgyoku is to make the owners desires come true. The Hōgyoku is an orb with a mind of it's own and is capable of reading the hearts of those around it. It is capable of granting Aizen whatever he desires, so long as it is within his abilities)

Fate Manipulation (The Hōgyoku made certain events occur due to reading the hearts of people around it and materializing them. For example, the Hōgyoku controlled the boundary between Shinigami and Hollow as that was Kisuke's wish, or Rukia losing all of her powers by giving them to Ichigo as she tortured herself over the death of Kaien Shiba)

StrymULTRA · 2025-01-12T11:20:11+0000

Johner2133451 said:
Technically Aizen's illusions can effect Almighty which is a 4D ability as it can being used to destroy Garganta

You're comparing a 4D precognition thing to a 2-B ranged reality warping/nuke. WTF man.

Johner2133451 said:
No problem is photoshop flowey's ability is not listed as thought based

You can literally see that's thought based if you click on it.

Johner2133451 said:
like in Grand Priest's profile

womp womp

Johner2133451 said:
Asriel in character needs to activate his hyper goner to do a mass info ee nuke

Don't repeat debunked stuff.

Johner2133451 said:
Aizen has cosmic awareness so that may could count

...that's not how it works. If we don't assume Omniscient beings to know things outside their verse due to NLF, then this should not either.

Johner2133451 said:
Technically Asriel when transmutated into a hollow, he doesn't die but his intelligence gets a massive decrease so he would just try randomly consume souls around instead of ee everything

Asriel's real self does not have a SOUL, as his base self is Flowey who does not need one. The SOULs are just additions, not something he's bound to. Meaning that Hollowfication is useless.

StrymULTRA · 2025-01-12T11:24:50+0000

Johner2133451 said:
Reality Warping & Mind Reading (The true power of the Hōgyoku is to make the owners desires come true. The Hōgyoku is an orb with a mind of it's own and is capable of reading the hearts of those around it. It is capable of granting Aizen whatever he desires, so long as it is within his abilities)

Your scan does not say that Aizen himself can do so.

So kinda a moot point.

DaReaperMan · 2025-01-12T12:49:10+0000

For once I do have to agree: Yeah Asriel just like... thinks. As his profile currently is he does kinda just ******' delete the bleach Cosmology and Kazotsky kicks all over Aizen's grave.

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T16:41:01+0000

StrymULTRA said:
Your scan does not say that Aizen himself can do so.

So kinda a moot point.

DaReaperMan said:
For once I do have to agree: Yeah Asriel just like... thinks. As his profile currently is he does kinda just ******' delete the bleach Cosmology and Kazotsky kicks all over Aizen's grave.

Wait does Asriel have resists to fear manip? I forgot Aizen has this in his soul profile

Aura (Overwhelming, Fear Inducement, Materialized and Explosive: Reiatsu induces a plethora of different aliments/effects onto those that affected by it like Soul Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Fear Manipulation and many others)

DaReaperMan · 2025-01-12T16:41:36+0000

Johner2133451 said:
Wait does Asriel have resists to fear manip? I forgot Aizen has this in his soul profile

Aura (Overwhelming, Fear Inducement, Materialized and Explosive: Reiatsu induces a plethora of different aliments/effects onto those that affected by it like Soul Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Fear Manipulation and many others)

Scaring Asriel is a good way to get him to nuke even faster than usual lol

StrymULTRA · 2025-01-12T16:42:30+0000

What does the fear hax even do lol.

Plus... yeah Asriel would just nuke Aizen faster, given nothing really stops him from doing that.

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T16:42:40+0000

DaReaperMan said:
Scaring Asriel is a good way to get him to nuke even faster than usual lol

Does Asriel nuke everything when he gets scared?

DaReaperMan · 2025-01-12T16:44:26+0000

Johner2133451 said:
Does Asriel nuke everything when he gets scared?

He starts killing a lot more when he's Flowey, so... yeah he'd just delete whatever was scaring him.

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T16:45:05+0000

StrymULTRA said:
What does the fear hax even do lol.

Plus... yeah Asriel would just nuke Aizen faster, given nothing really stops him from doing that.

I think it would make you stop thinking, paralysis and unable to do decisions like here

StrymULTRA · 2025-01-12T16:52:33+0000

Oh, is that thing that works only on weaker foes?

Not to mention that:

Soul Manipulation/Fear Manipulation/Paralysis Inducement (Souls with Reiryoku can resist the baseline effects of Reiatsu)

I see what Reiryoku is:

a power aligned with the spiritual sensitivity and willpower of the user. It is used by Shinigami and other spiritual beings to provide power for their various abilities.

Why would Asriel be affected by it? The entire thing of UT is boosting the power of your SOUL through DETERMINATION, which is clearly willpower based as even said in the profiles of Frisk and Asriel.

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T16:55:28+0000

StrymULTRA said:
Oh, is that thing that works only on weaker foes?

Not to mention that:

Soul Manipulation/Fear Manipulation/Paralysis Inducement (Souls with Reiryoku can resist the baseline effects of Reiatsu)

I see what Reiryoku is:

a power aligned with the spiritual sensitivity and willpower of the user. It is used by Shinigami and other spiritual beings to provide power for their various abilities.

Why would Asriel be affected by it? The entire thing of UT is boosting the power of your SOUL through DETERMINATION, which is clearly willpower based as even said in the profiles of Frisk and Asriel.

Wait having higher AP allows you to resist soul crush (the fear/paralysis part) even if the characters doesn't have resists to both in their profiles?

StrymULTRA · 2025-01-12T16:57:39+0000

Johner2133451 said:
Wait having higher AP allows you to resist soul crush (the fear/paralysis part) even if the characters doesn't have resists to both in their profiles?

I mean, iirc it was accepted that simply having higher spiritual power is enough in cross-verse stuff? Because DB characters are not affected by it iirc.

And even then, Reiatsu iirc does this from applying spiritual pressure on you, something that is not affecting Asriel due to him having literally 2-B potent SOULs lol.

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T17:00:27+0000

StrymULTRA said:
I mean, iirc it was accepted that simply having higher spiritual power is enough in cross-verse stuff? Because DB characters are not affected by it iirc.

And even then, Reiatsu iirc does this from applying spiritual pressure on you, something that is not affecting Asriel due to him having literally 2-B potent SOULs lol.

Well not sure about that because I have asked this question if a single weak soul reaper could solo all of dragon ball super via their soul crush. Majority of answers says yes

Thread 'Does the average Soul Reaper's soul crush from Bleach can solo all Dragon Ball Super characters?'

Jan 4, 2025

In the profiles, resisting Hakai grants you resist to soul erasure, so soul destruction. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Beerus
But many people say it doesn't mean they can resist soul damage. https://vsbattles.com/threads/ban-kai-bleach-general-discussion.107575/post-6929650

Since soul crush is focused on soul damage, would that mean the average soul reaper can solo DBS?

StrymULTRA · 2025-01-12T17:04:16+0000

Johner2133451 said:
Well not sure about that because I have asked this question if a single weak soul reaper could solo all of dragon ball super via their soul crush. Majority of answers says yes

Thread 'Does the average Soul Reaper's soul crush from Bleach can solo all Dragon Ball Super characters?'

Jan 4, 2025

In the profiles, resisting Hakai grants you resist to soul erasure, so soul destruction. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Beerus
But many people say it doesn't mean they can resist soul damage. https://vsbattles.com/threads/ban-kai-bleach-general-discussion.107575/post-6929650

Since soul crush is focused on soul damage, would that mean the average soul reaper can solo DBS?

Johner2133451

bleach dragon ball soul manipulation

Replies: 12

Forum: Questions and Answers

~~Considering that the majority of these were trolls or bleach supporters, I wouldn't really trust it.~~

Besides, that wouldn't really affect Asriel, now that I think, as his mind is not bound to the SOULs inside him, as they're all just separated entities he absorbed, and normally he's soulless.

Meaning that he'd still not gonna be bothered by Reiatsu and still think Aizen outta existence

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T17:07:09+0000

StrymULTRA said:
~~Considering that the majority of these were trolls or bleach supporters, I wouldn't really trust it.~~

Besides, that wouldn't really affect Asriel, now that I think, as his mind is not bound to the SOULs inside him, as they're all just separated entities he absorbed, and normally he's soulless.

Meaning that he'd still not gonna be bothered by Reiatsu and still think Aizen outta existence

Wait if all the souls inside asriel are separated entities, couldn't Aizen just effect all of them with his spiritual pressure and make them unbound from Flowey? Like the time the human souls separate themselves from photoshop flowey

StrymULTRA · 2025-01-12T17:09:50+0000

Johner2133451 said:
Wait if all the souls inside asriel are separated entities, couldn't Aizen just effect all of them with his spiritual pressure and make them unbound from Flowey? Like the time the human souls separate themselves from photoshop flowey

No because Asriel can always LOAD back, something Aizen cannot do anything about unlike Frisk.

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T17:13:41+0000

StrymULTRA said:
No because Asriel can always LOAD back, something Aizen cannot do anything about unlike Frisk.

But couldn't Aizen effect all the souls at the same time considering he has universal range? If the souls (especially the human ones) gets unbound from Asriel, he would lose the ability to load/save

Same as before, Universal to Interdimensional with Reiatsu (His Reiatsu should be comparable to Shutara's, who can shake the three realms of existence)

YmTheSuper · 2025-01-12T17:16:03+0000

StrymULTRA said:
I mean, iirc it was accepted that simply having higher spiritual power is enough in cross-verse stuff? Because DB characters are not affected by it iirc.

The dragon ball characters that are unaffected by soul crush are the ones that resist hakai (have resistance to soul destruction) and resist paralysis hax.

The fear and paralysis hax wouldn't matter here anyway since Asriel stomps due to the tier difference and superior hax.

StrymULTRA · 2025-01-12T17:21:50+0000

Johner2133451 said:
But couldn't Aizen effect all the souls at the same time considering he has universal range? If the souls (especially the human ones) gets unbound from Asriel, he would lose the ability to load/save

Same as before, Universal to Interdimensional with Reiatsu (His Reiatsu should be comparable to Shutara's, who can shake the three realms of existence)

Prove me he can negate Time hax then... It's a NLF to assume he can only because range. He does not even have Acausality to even be aware of the RESETs.

YmTheSuper said:
The dragon ball characters that are unaffected by soul crush are the ones that resist hakai (have resistance to soul destruction) and resist paralysis hax.

Well, Asriel resists Type 2 Info EE in this case, and in Undertale we already got a being who is NEP on both SOUL and Information, meaning that's not unrealistic to assume Asriel also resist that.

YmTheSuper said:
The fear and paralysis hax wouldn't matter here anyway since Asriel stomps due to the tier difference and superior hax.

TBH this is a massive mismatch as Asriel with unequal speed has Immeasurable, meaning that in normal conditions all of Aizen's passives are basically useless.

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T17:33:02+0000

StrymULTRA said:
Prove me he can negate Time hax then... It's a NLF to assume he can only because range. He does not even have Acausality to even be aware of the RESETs.

Well if Aizen's reiatsu able to make all the souls unbound from Flowey, Flowey would become weaker than Aizen in tier and get his time haxes powernulled (Aizen has this in the soul profile)

Limited Power Nullification (Reiryoku can null the abilities and techniques of those massively weaker than the user)

Aizen has demonstrated this ability to powernull the Cleaner who manipulates space and time

StrymULTRA · 2025-01-12T17:38:09+0000

Johner2133451 said:
couldn't Aizen just effect all of them with his spiritual pressure and make them unbound from Flowey?

Right, I skipped this.

Nah, the SOULs get all amped to 2-B level when inside Asriel, as they can still damage Frisk there.

Johner2133451 said:
Aizen has demonstrated this ability to powernull the Cleaner who manipulates space and time

Even then, I don't think is comparable to SAVE and LOAD, given that stuff is still part of the SAVE system, a part of the game's files, thus Type 2 Info.

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T17:55:58+0000

StrymULTRA said:
Right, I skipped this.

Nah, the SOULs get all amped to 2-B level when inside Asriel, as they can still damage Frisk there.

Even then, I don't think is comparable to SAVE and LOAD, given that stuff is still part of the SAVE system, a part of the game's files, thus Type 2 Info.

Well the souls being 2-B not sure if they can resist the fear manip from Aizen's reiatsu. Also couldn't Aizen just use his hogyoku to fate manip the individual souls to free themselves? It has uni+ range

Universal, possibly Universal+ to Interdimensional with the Hōgyoku (The Hōgyoku can affect the entire world through its ability to fulfill the desires of people)

Well it doesn't listed having info type 2 in base Flowey's profile

If he has control over the timeline, he gains Time Manipulation and Immortality (Type 4, Type 2 after dying; Via the SAVE System, Flowey can decide whether or not to return back to the world through his SAVE point. It should be noted however that if an individual is determined enough they can override Flowey's ability to do this, thus making Flowey lose his SAVE powers)

Flowey only starts to get his info manip in his photoshop key

Data Manipulation, Text Manipulation and limited Information Manipulation (Type 2; Was able to manipulate the game's files, thus changing the intro of the game, overwriting the title to "FLOWEYTALE" and replacing Frisk's datas on the SAVE File with his own)

StrymULTRA · 2025-01-12T17:57:39+0000

Johner2133451 said:
Well the souls being 2-B not sure if they can resist the fear manip from Aizen's reiatsu. Also couldn't Aizen just use his hogyoku to fate manip the individual souls to free themselves? It has uni+ range

He wouldn't know that thing about Asriel, nor he has the feats to do that iirc.

Johner2133451 said:
Well it doesn't listed having info type 2 in base Flowey's profile

If he has control over the timeline, he gains Time Manipulation and Immortality (Type 4, Type 2 after dying; Via the SAVE System, Flowey can decide whether or not to return back to the world through his SAVE point. It should be noted however that if an individual is determined enough they can override Flowey's ability to do this, thus making Flowey lose his SAVE powers)

Flowey only starts to get his info manip in his photoshop key

Data Manipulation, Text Manipulation and limited Information Manipulation (Type 2; Was able to manipulate the game's files, thus changing the intro of the game, overwriting the title to "FLOWEYTALE" and replacing Frisk's datas on the SAVE File with his own)

Here we talk about the nature of the SAVE file itself. Flowey in base does not have Type 2 info because of him not manipulating said SAVE, only manipulating time thanks to it.

But it does not change the fact that the SAVE file in itself is Type 2 info.

Johner2133451 · 2025-01-12T18:07:06+0000

StrymULTRA said:
He wouldn't know that thing about Asriel, nor he has the feats to do that iirc.

Here we talk about the nature of the SAVE file itself. Flowey in base does not have Type 2 info because of him not manipulating said SAVE, only manipulating time thanks to it.

But it does not change the fact that the SAVE file in itself is Type 2 info.

Well the Hogyoku is automatic and has mind reading so not really impossible to effect each individual souls with fate manip

Well it should still be listed like (Limited info type 2) besides the time manipulation ability

Also there's this: (It should be noted however that if an individual is determined enough they can override Flowey's ability to do this, thus making Flowey lose his SAVE powers)

It's not impossible for Hogyoku's fate manip to make Aizen adapt to the point he's equal/more determined than Flowey which makes Flowey lose his save powers

Transformation, Adaptation & Reactive Evolution (The Hōgyoku made Aizen undergo several evolutions during battle, increasing his statistics, changing his appearance and granting him new abilities and resistances on the spot)

Sosuke Aizen vs Asriel Dreemurr

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