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One-Punch Man: Nichirin Calc

Kachon123

Kachon123

19,140
16,800
Okay so this thread happened. I was unaware of its existence and for some reason I didn't get @ed in the thread itself (???) which is pretty odd, but whatever.

Nichirin's swordsmanship revolves around super high-speed cuts. When using the same technique he used against Black Sperm against a falling apple, we very clearly see its movement compared to both Nichirin and the objects cut. The apple is completely stationary, only moving once the mountain in the back was completely sliced. The intention is clearly for the technique's speed to be emphasized by comparing it to the stopped surrounding objects. Black Sperm was seen to be frozen in air right before the cut just like the apple was, and the next panel's "?!" reaction bubble also implies an instant timeframe. This is enough to justify the frozen timeframe figure.

The calc should be added back to the verse page.
 
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Kachon123 said:
Okay so this thread happened. I was unaware of its existence and for some reason I didn't get @ed in the thread itself (???) which is pretty odd, but whatever.
Click to expand...
To be fair I did respond to you in your original CRT and link the thread to you but you may not have gotten the notification for it for some reason.

Kachon123 said:
Nichirin's swordsmanship revolves around super high-speed cuts. When using the same technique he used against Black Sperm against a falling apple, we very clearly see its movement compared to both Nichirin and the objects cut. The apple is completely stationary, only moving once the mountain in the back was completely sliced. The intention is clearly for the technique's speed to be emphasized by comparing it to the stopped surrounding objects. Black Sperm was seen to be frozen in air right before the cut just like the apple was, and the next panel's "?!" reaction bubble also implies an instant timeframe. This is enough to justify the frozen timeframe figure.
Click to expand...
That is definitely not enough to justify the frozen timeframe from what I can tell.

A single panel can't tell you that characters are "frozen".

Especially since the subsequent panel when we see the full extent that the earth has moved isn't just the very next instant because time has clearly passed.
 
Damage3245 said:
Especially since the subsequent panel when we see the full extent that the earth has moved isn't just the very next instant because time has clearly passed.
Click to expand...
Kachon123 said:
Black Sperm was seen to be frozen in air right before the cut just like the apple was, and the next panel's "?!" reaction bubble also implies an instant timeframe
Click to expand...
I don't think that a significant amount of time had passed at all. I don't really see anything that implies that.
 
Kachon123 said:
I don't think that a significant amount of time had passed at all. I don't really see anything that implies that.
Click to expand...
It doesn't really matter because our standards aren't just that "It has to look like hardly any time has passed."

Our standard is this:

Sometimes even something like "time seems frozen" or that nothing moves is stated. Often these kinds of statements are hyperbole. However, should that not be the case one may assume that the apparent speed of the reference object is less than or equal to 0.00275 m/s, as that's the top speed of garden snails, animals that move so slowly that they appear to be nearly frozen in our perspective
Click to expand...

And it starts off with:

Sometimes even something like "time seems frozen" or that nothing moves is stated.
Click to expand...

There has to be some kind of statement implying it. A non-hyperbolic statement, of course. Our standard says "If the statement is not a hyperbole, then we can assume the apparent speed is the equivalent of a garden snail."
 
Damage3245 said:
There has to be some kind of statement implying it. A non-hyperbolic statement, of course. Our standard says "If the statement is not a hyperbole, then we can assume the apparent speed is the equivalent of a garden snail."
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You're reading the quoted incorrectly. It should be read like this:

"Sometimes phrases like "time seems frozen" or "nothing is moving" can he hyperbole's. However, if that's not the case it should be assumed that the apparent speed of the reference object is less than or equal to 0.00275 m/s."

This does not say that a frozen timeframe needs to be stated. It's just worded strangely.


Instead, there simply needs to be a good enough argument for it:

In this case, if a reference object with known speed can be visually confirmed to not have moved even 1 pixel (which requires the feat to happen in a visual media like a comic, movie or animation) one can figure out the timeframe, by saying that it must have been less than the timeframe that the object would have taken to move 1 pixel.

If that can not be confirmed different upper limits, with similar argumentation, can usually be confirmed. In cases with a moving camera/point of view, it can be useful to compare the movement to an object that can be assumed to be static.
Click to expand...
We see the apple static in two different pages/point of views, which is enough to qualify.
 
This does not say that a frozen timeframe needs to be stated. It's just worded strangely.
Click to expand...

That's not how I read it.

We see the apple static in two different pages/point of views, which is enough to qualify.
Click to expand...

The apple is not what is being calced here.

What you're calcing is dependong whether Black Sperm is "frozen" in the timeframe is takes the rocks to move a total distance of 53.3808 meters.

Which as I showed in the OP of my previous thread:

Furthermore, the Black Sperm don't even look motionless in the panel where we see the earth has moved. I added some rough arrows here to the panel to demonstrate what I mean; by the time we see the sections of earth have reached their final position, the two swarms of Black Sperm masses have surged forwards and plunged into the newly created gap.
Click to expand...

Doesn't look to be the case. By the time we've seen the earth has moved the calced distance, Black Sperm has moved a considerable distance.

So even if we went by this instead:

In this case, if a reference object with known speed can be visually confirmed to not have moved even 1 pixel (which requires the feat to happen in a visual media like a comic, movie or animation) one can figure out the timeframe, by saying that it must have been less than the timeframe that the object would have taken to move 1 pixel.
Click to expand...

You don't have sufficient proof that Black Sperm moved "less than 1 pixel" in that timeframe.
 
Nothing in the OP tells me why frozen time should be used. The OP needs to provide evidence to show that the time frozen method should be used in that moment. It happening quickly means nothing. Usually a statement or a super clear showing is needed to accept this. Absolute lowest timeframe you'd get out of me is one second.

We'd have to see a panel before the split which shows everything/everyone else in the same position that we them see after the split for the frozen time method to be usable. Something like that does not exist, all we see is the split itself, and there's no statement either, meaning we cannot use this method for this feat.

Heck, in that panel we can see Black Sperms falling between the rock pieces. Assuming the frozen time method, they should be in midair as if the ground was still there. The only way this calculation works is by assuming that the initial split was frozen in time, while the panel we actually see takes place later, which is absurd.

My opinion is unchanged and I disagree with the OP.
 
Damage3245 said:
That's not how I read it.
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How you read it was incorrect.
Damage3245 said:
The apple is not what is being calced here.

What you're calcing is dependong whether Black Sperm is "frozen" in the timeframe is takes the rocks to move a total distance of 53.3808 meters.

Which as I showed in the OP of my previous thread:


Doesn't look to be the case. By the time we've seen the earth has moved the calced distance, Black Sperm has moved a considerable distance
Click to expand...
The point is that the same technique was used, in which the surrounding objects are depicted as frozen.
TheRustyOne said:
The only way this calculation works is by assuming that the initial split was frozen in time, while the panel we actually see takes place later, which is absurd
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How is that absurd when we see Nichirin in the air after jumping once the rocks were already in their post-cut position? This panel takes place after the cut while the cut itself happens within the frozen timeframe as that's how its constantly depicted.
 
Kachon123 said:
The point is that the same technique was used, in which the surrounding objects are depicted as frozen.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's relevant. We don't even know if the apple had begun falling yet when he made his cut as he tossed it upwards, so it wasn't necessarily falling at maximum velocity when he performed his technique.

The calc doesn't offer any evidence for why the Black Sperm should be considered frozen during the entire distance the earth moved when it was split. The earth hasn't yet moved any distance in this panel. This panel being labelled as an "instant" timeframe doesn't mean the subsequent movement took place in an instant as well.
 
Damage3245 said:
I don't think it's relevant. We don't even know if the apple had begun falling yet when he made his cut as he tossed it upwards, so it wasn't necessarily falling at maximum velocity when he performed his technique.
Click to expand...
Nichirin gave it the lightest of tosses upwards, and it seemed to reach it's peak elevation before he even unsheathed his blade. Very silly point.
Damage3245 said:
The calc doesn't offer any evidence for why the Black Sperm should be considered frozen during the entire distance the earth moved when it was split. The earth hasn't yet moved any distance in this panel. This panel being labelled as an "instant" timeframe doesn't mean the subsequent movement took place in an instant as well.
Click to expand...
The cut happens in the frozen timeframe because that's what we see. The panel you linked holds no weight as the earth hadn't been touched by the bottom panel and yet we know it happened within that frozen time.
 
Damage3245 said:
I don't think it's relevant. We don't even know if the apple had begun falling yet when he made his cut as he tossed it upwards, so it wasn't necessarily falling at maximum velocity when he performed his technique.
Click to expand...
This is just being purposefully obtuse Damage, come on. Also, wrong.

aHR0cHM6Ly9maWxlcy5jYXRib3gubW9lL3dqeTBjeC5wbmc=
aHR0cHM6Ly9maWxlcy5jYXRib3gubW9lLzZoa2V4ay5wbmc=


The apple is leaning right when Nichirin tosses it and then leans left in the next panel as it falls and he cuts it

Even if it wasn't like this, the whole sequence it's meant to imply that he is performing the cut as the apple is falling mid air. Arguing against it is just being obtuse.
Damage3245 said:
The calc doesn't offer any evidence for why the Black Sperm should be considered frozen during the entire distance the earth moved when it was split. The earth hasn't yet moved any distance in this panel. This panel being labelled as an "instant" timeframe doesn't mean the subsequent movement took place in an instant as well.
Click to expand...
Because it's the same technique and sequence as the apple cutting feat! The land is split open instantly when Nichirin seathes his blade, same as the mountain getting cut to pieces!

aHR0cHM6Ly9maWxlcy5jYXRib3gubW9lL3VkMzY2ai5wbmc=
aHR0cHM6Ly9maWxlcy5jYXRib3gubW9lL3E3YjlvNi5wbmc=
 
Kachon123 said:
The cut happens in the frozen timeframe because that's what we see. The panel you linked holds no weight as the earth hadn't been touched by the bottom panel and yet we know it happened within that frozen time.
Click to expand...
It's not about the cut happening in the frozen time. It's about the movement of the earth afterwards which is what is being calced.
 
Damage3245 said:
It's not about the cut happening in the frozen time. It's about the movement of the earth afterwards which is what is being calced.
Click to expand...
Kachon123 said:
the next panel's "?!" reaction bubble also implies an instant timeframe
Click to expand...

In my opinion, the "?!" points to the rocks' movements happening with the same quickness of the cut itself. Similarly, when Nichirin cut behind the apple, the mountain moved it's distance the moment it was hit.
 
Recon1511 said:
This is just being purposefully obtuse Damage, come on. Also, wrong.

aHR0cHM6Ly9maWxlcy5jYXRib3gubW9lL3dqeTBjeC5wbmc=
aHR0cHM6Ly9maWxlcy5jYXRib3gubW9lLzZoa2V4ay5wbmc=


The apple is leaning right when Nichirin tosses it and then leans left in the next panel as it falls and he cuts it

Even if it wasn't like this, the whole sequence it's meant to imply that he is performing the cut as the apple is falling mid air. Arguing against it is just being obtuse.

Because it's the same technique and sequence as the apple cutting feat! The land is split open instantly when Nichirin seathes his blade, same as the mountain getting cut to pieces!

aHR0cHM6Ly9maWxlcy5jYXRib3gubW9lL3VkMzY2ai5wbmc=
aHR0cHM6Ly9maWxlcy5jYXRib3gubW9lL3E3YjlvNi5wbmc=
Click to expand...
I see what's going on here, the destruction from Nichirin's technique occurs quick enough that the falling apple appears frozen in place although I'm not sure if that'd be applicable to the 7-A calc since that's calcing the rock moving after the initial slash has already cut it apart. The exclamations don't have to be the same between panels, the first could simply be surprise at Nichirin performing his slash technique and the other surprise at the rock splitting cleanly. 1 second timeframe may have to be used or the yield obtained from the cutting itself
 
Damage3245 said:
Don't bump threads unless 24 hours go by since the last post.

So far three calc group members have posted about not being in favor of the OP's calc. There's been plenty of activity on the thread.
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anyway only 2 calc group members one is uncertain

Anyway forgot about the 24 hour issue sorry
 
At the moment I have nothing extra to add on that point. I don't agree with Kachon's opinion there.
 
If nothing else comes up by Saturday I think this will have been reasonably concluded by three calc group members commenting with none of them being in favor of the calc.
 
Damage3245 said:
If nothing else comes up by Saturday I think this will have been reasonably concluded by three calc group members commenting with none of them being in favor of the calc.
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there are two members for now it doesn't seem to me that the other message is a clear "I disagree"
 
SunDaGamer said:
I see what's going on here, the destruction from Nichirin's technique occurs quick enough that the falling apple appears frozen in place although I'm not sure if that'd be applicable to the 7-A calc since that's calcing the rock moving after the initial slash has already cut it apart. The exclamations don't have to be the same between panels, the first could simply be surprise at Nichirin performing his slash technique and the other surprise at the rock splitting cleanly. 1 second timeframe may have to be used or the yield obtained from the cutting itself
Click to expand...
It's the same technique, Nichirin slashes and when he seathes his blade the target he cut splits apart while everything is still frozen around it
aHR0cHM6Ly9maWxlcy5jYXRib3gubW9lL3VkMzY2ai5wbmc=
0186-016.png


If Nichirin splitting the city block apart was his only feat then sure, I can understand how assuming the split happening even as everything is still frozen might sound ridiculous, but we got to see the same technique again in the apple chapter and this is just exactly how it works
 
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It literally doesn't matter that it is the same technique. They doesn't mean that all the movement of affected objects happens within the same timeframe every time.
 
Recon1511 said:
It's the same technique, Nichirin slashes and when he seathes his blade the target he cut splits apart while everything is still frozen around it
aHR0cHM6Ly9maWxlcy5jYXRib3gubW9lL3VkMzY2ai5wbmc=
0186-016.png


If Nichirin splitting the city block apart was his only feat then sure, I can understand how assuming the split happening even as everything is still frozen might sound ridiculous, but we got to see the same technique again in the apple chapter and this is just exactly how it works
Click to expand...
From the way I see it, the material itself is sliced while the apple is falling at snail speed but the material actually falling apart after the slices were made would take longer so Nichirin could slice the piece of land into 2 pieces while everything seems frozen but it'd take longer for the pieces to fall over in separate directions, that passage of time is also shown by how a lot of the Black Sperms had already fallen into the gap
 
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