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Space-Time? That's Small!..... What now? | Type 2 Beyond Dimensional Existence/1-A Pre-Genesis Archie Sonic and Post Genesis Wave Downgrade

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Infinitinet said:
.Sonic can still undo the super Genesis wave like MegaMan so I don't see the point of downgrading him to 2-A.
Click to expand...
They were only able to undo the Genesis Wave with the Pre Genesis Wave Chaos Emeralds, and havent been shown to do anything on that level with the Post-Genesis Wave ones
Infinitinet said:
Also, they would still be 1-C because of the maginary world scaling.
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With only Maginaryworld scaling they would be Low 1-C, but discussion for anything above 2-A for Post Genesis Wave right now should be saved for another thread cause Type 2 BDE for Pre Genesis is already a large enough topic on it's own.
2-A is a placeholder for now, cause it would be a Qualitative Superiority disqualifier if Post Genesis Wave scaled to Pre Genesis Wave
 
You should write a summary of the arguments and counter-arguments provided so far and finish it with a conclusion as to why the CRT is ultimately still valid.
 
Brogeefrong said:
Additionally Solaris was going to destroy the Very Meaning of Time
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Why would either of those net 1-A?

FaceOff81 said:
I figured I'd reply to this again because this comment right here makes me believe that when it comes to powerscaling in some cases, it can be subjective. Some people can go with the low-end of an interpretation while other people go with the higher-end. This one, I believe on the higher-end where it refers to the general attribute based off of what was already accepted in the Archie Sonic Cosmology blog while you believe the lower-end. If you and disagree with how we see it here, then that's okay with me.
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You haven't really given any good reasons whatsoever to go for the high-end, so, yeah. There's no element of subjectivity here, there is just nothing of interest in this thread.

FaceOff81 said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Sonic The Hedgehog (Main Continuity) Cosmology Page

The main universe where the majority of the series takes place[1] housing countless[2] planets and stars[3] within it. The future of this world isn't set in stone and is prone to changing[4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15]. A “strange new multiverse”[16] created by the shattering[17] of...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

vsbattles.fandom.com

Sonic the Hedgehog: Once Upon a Hypertime

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Here are more explainations of White Space and the Time Eater's Lair how it also lacks both time and space making it a realm of Nothingness. As established previously in the Blog Brogeefrong posted, the events of Sonic Generations have happened in the Archie Comics. As such, the same rules should apply here as well. With it being below the Next Evoltuion and the Chaos Force, this should give it more merit being 1-A let alone Low 1-A. I will admit, there are a couple of scans and videos that use the term space-time-continuum but there are more scans that that use the terms that utilize the words time and space as a whole instead of a space-time-continuum. There is even a comment on how Sonic 06 fans should calm down due to Solaris erasing the very meaning of time itself implying that the Time Eater has the same if not greater capability giving the case of the Next Evolution and Chaos Force being above Space and Time in general more merit.
Click to expand...
I've already said that it being stated to lack spacetime isn't anything noteworthy tiering-wise, so stuff reiterating it means nothing, either. The fact it's currently accepted as part of a higher-dimensional timeline is icing on that cake.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
You haven't really given any good reasons whatsoever to go for the high-end, so, yeah. There's no element of subjectivity here, there is just nothing of interest in this thread.
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I disagree. It sounds like you disagree off of technicalities and difference of opinions regarding different definitions and how they're applied here.
Ultima_Reality said:
I've already said that it being stated to lack spacetime isn't anything noteworthy tiering-wise, so stuff reiterating it means nothing, either. The fact it's currently accepted as part of a higher-dimensional timeline is icing on that cake.
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That's specifically for the Game Continuity. The Archie Continuity has more higher dimensional planes of reality so it should be looked at differently instead of looking at it as just a higher-dimensional timeline. The reason why I posted it is because there are statements detailing them being above the literal concepts of space and time. Not lack there of. Them being conceptually above space and time should warrant some merit. That's not even counting the Next Evolution and The Chaos Force being above both of them.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
Why would either of those net 1-A?
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I wonder if we can include a tier called Low 1-A+ that features conceptual realms outside, lacking, or superior to the concept of time and space but aren't shown to have qualitative transcendence over them. This seems to be the case for this place, or maybe we move this definition to BDE type 2 and make BDE type 2 definition right now type 3.
 
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
I wonder if we can include a tier called Low 1-A+ that features conceptual realms outside, lacking, or superior to the concept of time and space but aren't shown to have qualitative transcendence over them. This seems to be the case for this place, or maybe we move this definition to BDE type 2 and make BDE type 2 definition right now type 3.
Click to expand...
Isn't that just regular low outversal?
 
Livinmeme said:
Isn't that just regular low outversal?
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I was thinking for Low 1-A, it's simply just lacking or being outside time and space. Whilst being a structure containing something close to a Universe of Sets. Low 1-A+ would be superior to time and space, but not in a qualitative manner. Whilst being a larger conglomerate of all sets or an ultimate ensemble of all mathematical structures.

If Ultima is not keen on 1-A then Low 1-A+ might be a good replacement for it.
 
JJSliderman said:
I don't think 1-A is gonna pan out, destroying all of time doesn't seem like enough.
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It should when it has Superiority over All of Space and Time while being a Conceptual Realm grants 1-A, and The Chaos Force is superior to everything in the cosmology while being a Conceptual Realm. Even if you believe 1-A can’t work here, it should at least be Low 1-A.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Can you help here?
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According to Ultima the Chaos Realm isn't a qualifier for 1-A, which is what this CRT hinges on. Since they know more about what does and doesn't qualify than I do, I would also say it doesn't count.

Though from personal knowledge of the series, I would say everything related to the Off-Panel stuff like Deadline would more or less automatically qualify for a 1-A upgrade.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
According to Ultima the Chaos Realm isn't a qualifier for 1-A, which is what this CRT hinges on. Since they know more about what does and doesn't qualify than I do, I would also say it doesn't count.

Though from personal knowledge of the series, I would say everything related to the Off-Panel stuff like Deadline would more or less automatically qualify for a 1-A upgrade.
Click to expand...
off-panel also has it's own problems afaik such as being the equivalent of basically an extra or omake rather than something seriously included in the cosmology but that's for another thread.
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
off-panel also has it's own problems afaik such as being the equivalent of basically an extra or omake rather than something seriously included in the cosmology but that's for another thread.
Click to expand...
I do get that, but if you all decide to keep the profiles associated with it, they would be 1-A for R>F.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
According to Ultima the Chaos Realm isn't a qualifier for 1-A, which is what this CRT hinges on. Since they know more about what does and doesn't qualify than I do, I would also say it doesn't count.
Click to expand...
Ultima currently hasn't addressed this stuff so far
Brogeefrong said:
Additionally Solaris was going to destroy the Very Meaning of Time
Click to expand...
Brogeefrong said:
The term "Concept of Time" is used, rather then just Time, at worst I think it should still fall under a Possibly/Likely
Click to expand...
Brogeefrong said:
Superiority over All of Space and Time while being a Conceptual Realm grants 1-A, and The Chaos Force is superior to everything in the cosmology while being a Conceptual Realm
Click to expand...
This is also basically the summary of what the arguments in favor for the thread are. I'll see if I have time to comply the arguments against the thread tomorrow
 
Brogeefrong said:
Ultima currently hasn't addressed this stuff so far
Click to expand...
except he did
vsbattles.com

Space-Time? That's Small!..... What now? | Type 2 Beyond Dimensional Existence/1-A Pre-Genesis Archie Sonic and Post Genesis Wave Downgrade

.Sonic can still undo the super Genesis wave like MegaMan so I don't see the point of downgrading him to 2-A. They were only able to undo the Genesis Wave with the Pre Genesis Wave Chaos Emeralds, and havent been shown to do anything on that level with the Post-Genesis Wave ones Also, they...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
all three prior question has been answered in his reply already saying why would they even qualify as it amounts to nothing in a vacuum as a statement
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
except he did
vsbattles.com

Space-Time? That's Small!..... What now? | Type 2 Beyond Dimensional Existence/1-A Pre-Genesis Archie Sonic and Post Genesis Wave Downgrade

.Sonic can still undo the super Genesis wave like MegaMan so I don't see the point of downgrading him to 2-A. They were only able to undo the Genesis Wave with the Pre Genesis Wave Chaos Emeralds, and havent been shown to do anything on that level with the Post-Genesis Wave ones Also, they...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Click to expand...
Brogeefrong said:
Superiority over All of Space and Time while being a Conceptual Realm grants 1-A, and The Chaos Force is superior to everything in the cosmology while being a Conceptual Realm
Click to expand...
 
"Superiority over All of Space and Time while being a Conceptual Realm grants 1-A"

Where does this come from?
 
Hasty12345 said:
"Superiority over All of Space and Time while being a Conceptual Realm grants 1-A"

Where does this come from?
Click to expand...
vsbattles.fandom.com

Beyond-Dimensional Existence

Beyond-Dimensional Existence is the state of existing beyond dimensions. In the majority of cases, this will be referring to characters who are timeless and spaceless. That is to say: A "beyond-dimensional" character does not take up any volume whatsoever, nor does it occupy a position in...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Superiority over All of Space and Time while being a Conceptual Realm grants 1-A, and The Chaos Force is superior to everything in the cosmology while being a Conceptual Realm
Click to expand...
According to Ultima the Chaos Realm isn't a qualifier for 1-A, which is what this CRT hinges on. Since they know more about what does and doesn't qualify than I do, I would also say it doesn't count.

Though from personal knowledge of the series, I would say everything related to the Off-Panel stuff like Deadline would more or less automatically qualify for a 1-A upgrade.
Click to expand...

You are making it seem the Chaos force is 1-A by the argument of BDE type 2 when ultima already told you It doesn't qualify
and to be BDE type 2 you need to be 1-A afaik
so no your argument is answered
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
You are making it seem the Chaos force is 1-A by the argument of BDE type 2 when ultima already told you It doesn't qualify
Click to expand...
As far as I'm aware, Ultima has not given their opinion on those points, other then a question on why they would qualify, which I answered on why they matter, and Ultima hasn't responded back to that since
TheGreatJedi13 said:
and to be BDE type 2 you need to be 1-A afaik
Click to expand...
i mean theres also low 1-a bde type 2. I'm arguing for both of them for the same reason
 
Well, Ultima already pointed out the problems I had with this.

A wise meme once said "just let it go bruh".

Also, I think Archie pages have a lot of issues compared to their game counterparts. And there is some tiering stuff that I still have problems with, but I was already discussing this off site, so there's that.
 
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