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What A Beautiful Series: Nyarlathotep's are 1-A

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Celestial_Pegasus

Celestial_Pegasus

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This is my attempt at putting the two Nyarlathotep's at 1-A. M is less solid imo, while Edison is more straightforward. My blog on M has most of the information, it's not that long, so not going to re-post all the evidence here.

M​


To summarize: M is a transcendent being of the outer universe, that which is not within. the very outside itself. Everything is apart of M, and it's from him creation itself came from. He is beyond eternity, infinite, time, space, causality, comprehension and understanding.

His world Sharnoth, which is the same as him, is an infinite, eternal world of nothingness, that has no time (Shikkoku no Sharnoth, Act 10) and is eternally unchanging (Shikkoku no Sharnoth, Act 10)


The crux of this upgrade would be whether or not M existing as a transcendent being, outside, and beyond time and space itself, while also being that which creation came from, is enough for 1-A.


Edison​


Edison is the same as M, so if M qualifies so does he, but the inverse isn't true since Edison consumed Yog-Sothoth. But would feel weird for Edison to be vastly superior to M, but if that's what the feats show, can't do anything about it, we haven't even seen the 2 interact.

To re-post the scans on his profile; Edison sees everything in the world of the Underground, which has (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 7) no end to it (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 7), as being trivial (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 3), and without meaning (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 7). The Underground is just a game to him with only Gods being able to play chess; it is impossible for non-God's to play chess with a God, and everything in the world of the Underground is just his toy (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 7).


From his perspective there is no meaning to the Underground, it's just an illusion, fiction, nothingness, which he decides what exactly it is (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 7). He likewise sees the entire parallel world of Karashrer, as being meaningless (Kaijin no Karashrer, Act 2).

Addressing Possible Issues​


M​


It was stated that James Moriarty was able to pass through the gates of Tartarus (Shikoku no Sharnoth, Act 10), and meet M (Shikoku no Sharnoth, Act 10). So what is the gate? It exists at the end of the Interstice which isn't in Sharnoth, nor the real world, and it requires a Golden Eye like Mary's to open (Shikoku no Sharnoth, Act 3).

So the Gate has a stated thing that it needs to open, Golden Eyes, so while not stated, it's pretty clear imo Moriarty got to Sharnoth and M using the eyes. So what are the eyes, they are pieces of Azathoth, and M is Azathoth's knight

Will people remember the Moon King?
The Clockwork God.
Tick Tock Man.
The Crawling Chaos. The Time Man. The Dark Will. The Madness of Space-Time. The Moon King who came from a different Sky.
One of the Outer Gods who came from the World of History. A God of cruelty, gears, and chaos who chose to become all of Space-Time by devouring the Outer God Yog who controls it, becoming one of the traits of the universe.
He controls Kadath's Moon.
Thus, although they are the Black King from a concurrent parallel universe, they are completely different from the Black King here. They are something else, something completely different.
Do not forget, people. The Moon King has a cruel interest in all intelligent life forms. From spiritual animals to humans, especially those that have evolved from apes. When the gaze of the Moon King observes you, your heart will never be able to obtain happiness again.
No one can escape from the Moon King.
The universe that is recognized by the Moon King has already become useless.
Once the Moon King’s eyes gazed at anyone, they are nothing more than puppets that wander in the small garden (Sona Nyl) where dreams come to life. The planet in which the Mega Engine Clock protrudes on has already become useless. At least you people should die without knowing this. Once you know this, yes, there aren’t many options. That is the defeat of man, just like the Great Priest Clive who fell to madness. In that case, yes, I…
I...


But...
Last year, something happened.
Kadath's Moon, the giant piece of the Oblivion Golden Eye that belongs to A.Z.T.T. betrayed the Moon King just once on December 25, 1907, and as a result, the Moon King was subjected to a modest counterattack by the Stranger, the first ever independent Cracking Being.
Applause!
Applause!-Shiei no Sona Nyl: Unknown Author Description

There's been a subtle change in my Queen recently.

Their opportunity to display an active desire to learn has increased.

My Lady Lily. It's a clear fact that she possesses characteristics of an Independent Cracking Being with extremely powerful abilities based off the previous incident with Hypnos, but I presume this has to do with her special characteristic of "ignorance" or rather her "innocence".

This judgment is based on the knowledge gleaned from the late Alan Akeley's personal library, which was a major factor in giving me form.

In other words, it was based on heretical books that describes certain cosmological interpretations such as "Asteroid Mechanics" and the "Necronomicon (English Version. Incomplete, with about 20 clippings)". Additionally, there was a description for the Black King.

It described an existence that could be the core of the universe. In other words, the center of infinity, the amorphous dark shadow of the chaotic abyss, the unimaginable lightless end that transcends time. The one who sits there, the center of the universe. The nucleus. The King or Queen of the "Outer Ones" that is the universe itself. The Golden Eyes that stare at everything from the center of the end have already vanished from the Throne (In a digression, I conclude that the Black King is a representative or knight close to the spirit of this King or Queen).

I will refer to them as A.Z.T.T.

That characteristic of theirs is "ignorance" or "innocence".

These are characteristics that match that of my Queen.

However, therein lies a big problem with my hypothesis.

Following our escape from the Underground World, I obtained a new form of power called Critter Howler in Darkness, with a piece of information revealed to me that perhaps belonged to the Black King. It was clear that the knowledge and attributes I have were of a greater or lesser degree in my manipulation of "shadows" and "black", but now that amount has increased. Thus, according to my upgraded brain information, Lily is missing a key element that would show her connection to A.Z.T.T.

In other words, the Golden Eyes.

My Queen has not inherited a single piece of the Golden Eyes of A.Z.T.T, who was once said to have existed---Sona Nyl: 1908 - A Pile of Books and You

M is searching for the Golden Eyes

Will people remember the Black King?
The Outer God.
The King of the Gods.
The Howler in Darkness. The Crawling Chaos. The Dark Universe itself. The one who seeks Gold.
It is incomparable to the Old Ones. The Foreign God, the Black King, a real one who can exist as matter and that which is all of darkness is its domain.
The galaxy that encompasses our planet, the cluster of galaxies it gathers, and the vast infinite darkness that possesses it, that is, the universe, is one of the many certain traits in the universe that is black, darkness, and one of the Outer Gods.
The Black King, who is said to have a thousand manifestations on a planetary to even galactic scale was observed by Professor Moriarty at a young age, who left behind a paper. It overlooked the existence of A.Z.T.T, but...
Ah, the Black King. The one who flew from outer space. The dull traces of the God who hides himself. The Knight of the Abyss, the Jet Black Outer God who remade the dark universe to search for the Golden Eyes that flew from outer space to this planet.
After visiting the planet, it is said that it ruled and reigned relatively benignly over those who behaved as its God King. Did you see in the fading illusion the profile of the one from outside that had once disappeared?
Even after the end of ancient times, the Black King did not perish.
Do you remember?
People, he chose to be the only king in the Dark Palace.
But...
It seems that some of those traits have changed in recent years.
What has happened? What did he see? Who did he see?


In 1908, a tall figure summoned out of his shadow a Replica of the Howler-in-Darkness, which the Black King had given a small portion of his original power to, but when was the last time he helped with anything?
People, will you remember?


Will people remember Sharnoth?
The Dark Star, the Black King's Palace.
It is located in the farthest reaches of the universe, far from this star and the planet Kadath. A dark planet that exists in the depths of the cosmos where there are no sun or stars around.
It is where the Black King once sat.
Now it is no one's palace.
A few large manifestations of the Black King may be sleeping there, but that's all, and the time of awakening is not near. That's all there is to it.
But do not forget that, people.
-Shiei no Sona Nyl: Unknown Author Description

We get more statements here about transcending time, but the most important thing is that the Golden Eyes are pieces of A.Z.Z.T who is M's queen, and he is looking for them, makes perfect sense why they are the key to reaching Sharnoth.

Even the Old Ones who M let into Sharnoth through the Gates of Tartarus, never reached M, nothing has ever spiraled up to his being,

People!
People, from now on, let's revive the truth and madness that sleeps in the Abyss.


Will people remember the Old Ones?
Spirits, fairies, and gods. Those of old that were once part of people's lives.
They are not real creatures, only illusions dreamed up by people.
After the Black King flew to this planet, not many of them migrated to the dark star of Sharnoth through the Gates of Tartarus, but it was meaningless. They disappeared like shadows before the light of human civilization, which was advancing and developing. It's a pity.
The world belongs to man.
The world is filled with iron and machines.
There is no room for illusion.-Shiei no Sona Nyl: Unknown Author Description

Once

Once, before the fragile and ephemeral ones had the light of civilization in their hands

There was the Old Ones

Dead spirits, Earth spirits, Faieries, they were all sorts of things

Some were kings who were called gods, but they were too small to give their names to

All those who fancy themselves as being illusions
Those who have been dwarfed and disappeared like a shadow before the dawn of man

Still, they were closer to us than some of you

It was only a dream
If Heisenberg had existed in ancient times, there would have been a different way of being

It's no use nowadays

They have served one of my thousand manifestations well, but none could reach me

I even opened up my dark nebula palace to them, but still

There wasn't even a single one

My Darkness, My Shadow, My Jet Black, nothing has ever spiraled upward to my being, one of the nodes that make up the Dark Universe, and no one has ever risen in rank

Far from its chaos

By that point...-Shiei no Sona Nyl: Dream Wandering


So we know M has thousands of avatars, and even if someone reaches "Sharnoth", they don't necessarily reach the true M

The M we see throughout the events of Shikkoku no Sharnoth is heavily hinted to be nerfing himself, while talking about Dracula, written by Bram Stoker, Heinz states that it wasn't a story about a man and God, but about a man who tied himself down (Shikkoku no Sharnoth, Act 5), and Mary upon hearing that immediately thinks about M. Mary has the Golden Eyes, which are pieces of A.Z.Z.T, which give not only high intelligence, but high analytical abilities, so I think it's clearly being hinted M is nerfing himself. The Web Novel seems to confirm this too, where it's stated the Kruschtya Equation is the bonds he placed on himself

「Silence.」


He pointed his right hand towards the humans,
the 《Illuminati》 members foolishly gathering before him.
　 They were finished.
　 It'd been tens of thousands of days since he'd last devoured humans.


M tried to remember the taste, and knit his brows.
　 Come to think of it, the last time he ate a human, he was told something.
　 It was──


「You said your name was Costanzo? I have a question for you.」


「Y-yes, what might it be?」


「Who was the one who used my name to bring Mary Clarissa Christie here?」


「That was me. We've been ordered not to lay hands on the golden eye, but no one ever said we couldn't invite her on a trip. And as you saw, she performed splendidly for us.」


「I see.」


「We even succeeded at riling you up! Black King!」


「Enough. Die.」


He began thinking, releasing the things holding him in a human form.
　 He mentally untied the Kruschtya Equation, the bonds he placed on himself.
The moment he held out his "arm" of fantastic black, now that it was allowed to destroy, swallow and massacre all things──Shikkoku no Sharnoth, The Ashen Funeral of Nyhargo

So in conclusion, even if he is 1-A, nothing would contradict it

Edison​


Only thing I could think of is Lily, a non-God defeating Edison, however as her profile, and even the quotes I posted here shows, she did that as a result of the Oblivion Golden Eyes, and as to why that would even help Lily, again there are heavy hints Lily is connected to A.Z.Z.T.

So all in all, don't see any objections for this, provided the evidence is sufficient.
 
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I might be wrong but M needs to also encompass space and time for him to be vaster,larger,superior than it for BDE 2
 
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I didn't mention BDE type 2, the BDE page doesn't mention anything about needing to encompass space-time though.

The argument would basically be that M's nature exceeds space-time.

Whether the evidence makes that 1-A? Idk.

He is the nothingness from which creation came, this nothingness lacks space-time, but is also transcendent over it.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
I didn't mention BDE type 2, the BDE page doesn't mention anything about needing to encompass space-time though.
Click to expand...

It does
voids of nothingness that lack space, time and physicality entirely, but are nonetheless "vaster" than physical reality in some way, with common imagery being the universe as a small object encompassed in such a backdrop.
Click to expand...
Here Ultima confirm it

Celestial_Pegasus said:
The argument would basically be that M's nature exceeds space-time.

Whether the evidence makes that 1-A? Idk.

He is the nothingness from which creation came, this nothingness lacks space-time, but is also transcendent over it.
Click to expand...
That would still be BDE type 1 because transcerd only means to go beyond which is not superiority ,would still fall under BDE 1
 
Considering the statements of the darkness existing on an "absolute scale" compared to the universe and being "beyond infinity", it's clear that transcendence in this case would be Low 1-A at least.
 
Never payed to that absolute scale statement besides the transcending time and space stuff.

Not sure if I should bring up Sonido, and her statements about words, thoughts nothing having no meaning to her realm, since she is hyped to be A.Z.Z.T's equal, who is M's queen, who dreamed everything into existence. Right now Sonido's is just hype.

Sonido is obsessed with M, and apparently follows in his footsteps? The interesting part is probably that existence itself is defined the endless darkness, which makes sense since creation came from M/the endless darkness, but even Sonido's citizens, the Elysian's find time and space to be meaningless, and they are inferior to M, judging by M's interaction with Hypnos.

Oh fragile and ephemeral thing.

Oh ugly and weak thing.

For us, it took but a mere blink of an eye to become aware of your existence. But for you, it must have been very long. I understand.

Yes. First of all.

We must first define that of existence.

What is existence?

It has nothing to do with consciousness.

It has nothing to do with life.

Namely, it is the endless darkness that constantly fluctuates as my Lord says. My Lord's love is a brightness that constantly rewrites each parallel, continuous universe. As if they are following the Black King's footsteps, they are destroying them one by one. Naturally, space and time are meaningless to us.

Now.

What then, Lily the Stranger.

A person's tears had been shed.

What will be next for you?

Is it true that you still exist even now?

If that is the case, what will you define yourself as? What are you?

What will you think, or rather, believe of him as? Suppose by some chance he were to achieve Paradigm into the Black Prince, that the same is true for the descendants of my Lord Sanido. Is that the person whom you have in mind? That which has already been lost?-Shiei Sona-Nyl: If you…
 
Actually re-looking at evidence of Elysia, think I overlooked somethings. So the previous statement I posted, is titled "~XXXX, somewhere in the white light~", white light referring to Elysia.

So we can already infer that Elysian's are beyond time and space, thinking of it as meaningless (this here was specifically by Hypnos, who is called a pillar of Elysia, so maybe just them?). This next statement I just attributed to Sonido, but it might be interpreted as being about the realm Sonido rules

Beyond the stars.


Perhaps beyond the abyssal universe itself.


The beauty of the palace and gardens, the glitter itself, will shatter your eyes and devour your mind. No one will be able to bear the beauty and the presence of the exalted.


Elysia.
The Palace of the White Ones.
The Garden.
At times, it has even simply been referred to as just Erisha.


It is said to be a large star, either Betelgeuse, Hyades, or the central core of some galaxy or a cluster of stars. But there is no way for us to know where it is.


Words, thoughts, nothing holds meaning there.


Not before the glimmer of Sanido.


--Yes.

---The Golden Eyes are there.


The Lord of Elysia.
The King and Queen. The Princess and Prince.
The White God. The Burning White Heat.
The Horror.
The Eminence.


The ruler of the abyssal universe, with its many titles of honor, is the ruler of Elysia, of Erisha. The Garden of Radiance, where no dark evil can enter, the farthest point itself, the end of the world, beyond the Wailing Wall, the end of the horizon of causality. Darkness and evil are irrelevant. The queen of existence and nonexistence reigns in the realm of nonexistence where even the existence of all things is not permitted.
- Shiei no Sona Nyl - Gaze

It's stated here, that words, thoughts, nothing holds meaning in Elysia, which again, before time and space were also said to be meaningless to Elysians. A while dream walking ends up in Elysia

I think...
I'm going to have to do something rare, but it's also inevitable.
I'm going to be in a position to make a decision about the current situation that night and at that time.

My senses were in disarray.
With my eyes, Lily was certainly in bed. All of my sensory organs were telling me that, but what I was seeing with my view was different. I was seeing different things.

At that time, I was in a different place with crystalline bodies of all sizes.

I could sense with my eyes that Lily was at my side, but my view was in a "white place without Lily". It was a bizarre experience. Is it funny that I, who was operating in the underground world, would use such language?

But it was a bizarre experience.

I never sleep. Do I need to breathe as a brainless person? No, I don't. So I don't sleep, and thus I do not dream.
If I ever dreamed, would it even be a dream?
I put all the right senses inside the lone subway car, but my ego and my "view" were in a crystalline field of white. And then...

--Then, I met Them.


They, clad in shining white color, called themselves Elysians. They stood atop enormous white crystals, staring at me with clear hostility.-Sona Nyl of the Violet Shadow~Dream Wandering

A transformed into the howler in Darkness which he gained from a small portion of M's power, and destroys the Elysians

Before me were the Three Elysians, three who were clad in white cloaks looking down at me from up high. Then, I saw the Fatal space destruction of an extended area on a continental scale caused by their drawing of strange geometric patterns in the air, and I...
How should I have reacted?
Am I allowed to act just to keep myself alive? Will my survival help protect Lily? So should I act that way? Can it be said that it is not my ego?
She is already golden. Thus, I am already----

I couldn't make a decision. I could still feel the presence of Lily sleeping at that moment, and I couldn't move, deciding that the visual information might be real. And, yes, above all else, I did not have a Critter.

The automatic defense of the shadows, the formation of shadows, the attacks of the shadows in check...
There was no other hand I could make. The three gifts that Alan Akeley used to build from his Equation for me are already gone. I can't reclaim them, and they can never be used except for Lily.

I don't know if I, as a shadow right now, can withstand a spatial destruction equal to the Disruptor without taking action to protect my queen.
Nor if it was possible to block it with Critters.
And yet...
Half-autonomously, I used a Critter.
Critter Howler in Darkness.

The shadow has taken a form.
My shadow enveloped me, and I was transformed. I transformed, becoming a shadow giant with three legs and a huge, oddly twisted arm. My head was twisted and turned into a faceless form.

I could hear the Three Elysians shouting, "The one that howls in the darkness, the Black King's kin". At first, I couldn't make sense of it. A king. I don't deserve a king, I thought to myself. I shall serve only one queen. A howler in the dark, it is more fitting.
I turned into a black giant and roared, smashing the oncoming attacking spatial mutation and all of the huge crystalline bodies they stood on. And...

I woke up.
--Sona Nyl of the Violet Shadow~Dream Wandering

I could also go into Lily using A to drive away Hypnos (another Elysian), and M later seeing Hypnos and laughing at him/it for taking damage, but that's kinda unnecessary.

Anyway A did all this with just a portion of M's power, I think I ignored it before due to Elysian's unleashing spatial destruction on a continental scale, but not sure if that's relevant, when compared to the descriptions about space and time being meaningless.

I could also see an interpretation of space and time being meaningless, applying to just Hypnos, who is clearly one of the more powerful Elysians, while the words, thoughts statements, just applies to Sonido, since it talks about that in relation to Sonido's radiance, so ehh, maybe it's just the random Elysians who have these continental powers, while the more powerful ones are beyond such descriptions.
 
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Reading through the OP and the blog: For one, I don't think the stuff with Edison and the Underground really fits the bill. Every time the Underground is described as nothingness, an illusion, and etc, it seems to be stated in the context of how the whole thing is just a world he created and can reshape however he wants. Seems to be basically an extension of "He has full control over the place, so to him it's just a toy with no real significance," not really a metaphysical statement on his nature.

M ironically is the more interesting of the two here. I see some statements saying that he is one of the constituents of the universe alongside time and space. What's up with that? He is described as a concept, himself, so are time and space also being spoken of as concepts, instead of it talking about the physical spacetime continuum?
 
Not really around my pc right now, but Edison for example is all of spacetime, because he ate Yog another Outer God who controlled spacetime, so space-time I think is meant in a physical sense.

With M, his nature is paradoxically in that he exists, and also doesn't exist, so to answer about him being darkness, it's both, he exists physically as the darkness, which makes up the universe, he is for example stated to be the dark matter which makes up the universe, but at the same time his darkness/jet black is a concept which transcends time & space.

Basically it's stated that all areas of darkness are under his control, and even that everything black/dark is the same, that's all M's control.

We know Sharnoth/M has nothing in that, but at the same time everyone/everything exists in it.

Will post some scans when I get home.
 
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So starting off, re-posting what was said about M in my blog, M can exist as matter, and all of darkness. Here it's said the infinite darkness which exists within the universe is one of traits in the universe which is black, and one of the Outer Gods, that being M

Will people remember the Black King?
The Outer God.
The King of the Gods.
The Howler in Darkness. The Crawling Chaos. The Dark Universe itself. The one who seeks Gold.
It is incomparable to the Old Ones. The Foreign God, the Black King, a real one who can exist as matter and that which is all of darkness is its domain.
The galaxy that encompasses our planet, the cluster of galaxies it gathers, and the vast infinite darkness that possesses it, that is, the universe, is one of the many certain traits in the universe that is black, darkness, and one of the Outer Gods.
The Black King, who is said to have a thousand manifestations on a planetary to even galactic scale was observed by Professor Moriarty at a young age, who left behind a paper. It overlooked the existence of A.Z.T.T, but...
Ah, the Black King. The one who flew from outer space. The dull traces of the God who hides himself. The Knight of the Abyss, the Jet Black Outer God who remade the dark universe to search for the Golden Eyes that flew from outer space to this planet.
After visiting the planet, it is said that it ruled and reigned relatively benignly over those who behaved as its God King. Did you see in the fading illusion the profile of the one from outside that had once disappeared?
Even after the end of ancient times, the Black King did not perish.
Do you remember?
People, he chose to be the only king in the Dark Palace.-Shiei no Sona Nyl: Unknown Author Description

This was confusing for me for a long time seeing as M is described as being apart of the universe here, and at other points, is something which encompasses infinite universes. Both are true, the darkness within the universe is just a trait of M, because that darkness is black.

Sona-Nyl says the same sort of thing, A was granted a small portion of M's power and came to realize some things; the 3 Elysian's which attacked him before (which I posted previously above) had names which represented shadow, blackness, darkness, and the power A used throughout Sona-Nyl also used shadows. Manipulating shadows and turning blackness into power is M's domain (Hypnos Evil Eye).

Also from my blog, the world of the stars/space is described as dark matter, which constitutes M, this again proves that he indeed can exist as matter

Did you go to the moon?

How could such a thing be possible?

It was impossible.

It has been a long time since we have been denied the ethereal oceans of fantastical fiction that floated in faraway galaxies, but what we have instead learned about outer space is the cold, stern fact that it is nothing but an infinite darkness of death. People may be able to fly through the dark clouds with an engine airship, but even if they are able to penetrate the eternal gray clouds that have been darkened since the last century by the developed Steam Engine civilization, they will not be able to go out into space.

The world of the stars is the darkness of infinite death, or as some occultists I know would describe it, the black garden of death, stagnation, and eternal infinity filled with dark matter that constitutes the fearsome Black King, the transcendent being of the outer universe.-~ Ulthar Thoughts (Mushoku no Ulthar - END of the Shining World)

This statement comes from Ulthar, which is a parallel world to the one we follow. Steampunck has several parallel world like these such as Karasher, and Apocalypsis. One of M's alias is Shadow Builder he is shown in Karasher helping ending the world

At that time--

Someone finally whispered something cruelly.

The Pillar that shattered the assembly hall made a sound so loud, it resonated across the City of L. The long and short hands, resembling that of an endlessly stretched black sword or spear, lined up which made the unpleasant sound of metals being scrapped, resounding loudly like it was a fanfare.

The two black hands pointed exactly on midnight.



--That was the moment everything went to zero.



The time from that moment on to the present were of the remains of the World that have perished and ended. Kyrie had said something like that before. I was angry and told him, "don't say that". But in truth, it was hard denying that I felt the same.

At that time, the World had ended.

Yes. Indeed.

At that moment, it was over.

My memory of the time is hazy so I couldn't quite precisely remember the details of everything that happened from that moment on. But it was possible, if not a fact.

What I could remember were shreds of audio and video.

Pieces. Scraps. Fragments.



--Shadow Builder covering the sky.



--Mask of White Death.



--Tick Tock. Tick Tock.



--A laughing Golden Mask.-Kaijin no Karashrer: Act 2

In my blog I posted about how creation came from the nothingness that is M, and how it's stated that even infinite universes are encompassed within him. Feels like I may have gone off on a tangent here, essentially M does exist as one of the 3 things that make up the universe, as darkness/dark matter are one of the many things that are black, which M is the very concept of.

I think what you were getting at with the space-time discussion, was whether or not space-time is being meant to mean the physical space-time, or space-time as a concept itself? And honestly idk, there are several statements about M/Sharnoth transcending time and space, I think the statement from my blog, about "The word's contents were a record of the physical activity and movement of the distant ancient universe and, more precisely, a record of matter and phenomena of an absolute scale that transcends time and space, of stars being crushed and the universe being mercilessly penetrated with high gravity", is the most interesting.

This statement below from the op might be interesting too, it's a description of M, which talks about the center of infinity, the chaotic abyss, light-less end which transcends time

There's been a subtle change in my Queen recently.

Their opportunity to display an active desire to learn has increased.

My Lady Lily. It's a clear fact that she possesses characteristics of an Independent Cracking Being with extremely powerful abilities based off the previous incident with Hypnos, but I presume this has to do with her special characteristic of "ignorance" or rather her "innocence".

This judgment is based on the knowledge gleaned from the late Alan Akeley's personal library, which was a major factor in giving me form.

In other words, it was based on heretical books that describes certain cosmological interpretations such as "Asteroid Mechanics" and the "Necronomicon (English Version. Incomplete, with about 20 clippings)". Additionally, there was a description for the Black King.

It described an existence that could be the core of the universe. In other words, the center of infinity, the amorphous dark shadow of the chaotic abyss, the unimaginable lightless end that transcends time. The one who sits there, the center of the universe. The nucleus. The King or Queen of the "Outer Ones" that is the universe itself. The Golden Eyes that stare at everything from the center of the end have already vanished from the Throne (In a digression, I conclude that the Black King is a representative or knight close to the spirit of this King or Queen).

I will refer to them as A.Z.T.T.

That characteristic of theirs is "ignorance" or "innocence".

These are characteristics that match that of my Queen.

However, therein lies a big problem with my hypothesis.

Following our escape from the Underground World, I obtained a new form of power called Critter Howler in Darkness, with a piece of information revealed to me that perhaps belonged to the Black King. It was clear that the knowledge and attributes I have were of a greater or lesser degree in my manipulation of "shadows" and "black", but now that amount has increased. Thus, according to my upgraded brain information, Lily is missing a key element that would show her connection to A.Z.T.T.

In other words, the Golden Eyes.

My Queen has not inherited a single piece of the Golden Eyes of A.Z.T.T, who was once said to have existed---Sona Nyl: 1908 - A Pile of Books and You

At the center of this abyss (which is M), lies Azathoth, which is the universe itself. Honestly these "universe" terms get thrown around a lot when the characters are operating above that scale, parallel worlds exist, an infinite amount did at one point (which M devoured), and yet Azathoth which dreamed of everything is still being compared to the universe...

You are eternal.
And the only thing eternal other than you is the Moon.

Atal kept their mouth shut.

The Moon? Infinite? But why the moon?

It was okay to ask that, but they weren't sure how to make him understand that Atal is not eternal, but just a person who can be hurt or even fall ill. The thought of this clouds Atal's inner thoughts. It was getting cloudy, but Atal still didn't change their expression.

It was a gentle expression.


They held onto one of their fingers a little firmer.

Hey, you. Atal is weaker than you think. But I'll tell you about it next time. For now, let me ask you about the moon. Why do you say the moon is eternal?

Well...

He trailed off.

Atal didn't know much about the machine-like behavior of scanning and searching the few remaining memory areas. The only thing they can think of is that he's searching for words like people do. And so they waited quietly, adoring the fact that he has so many human-like gestures for a god.

The stars were twinkling in the sky.

Not to mention that the moon appeared unusually big tonight.

The Moon is the Eye.

An eye?

Yes. The Golden Eye of the Queen who once sat at the center of the universe and dreamed of everything...that is the biggest piece of it. It is still dying, still sleeping, and still watching us. And... - Ulthar Thoughts (Mushoku no Ulthar - END of the Shining World)

TLDR: M is a trait of not just 1 universe, but all things that are black in the multiverse. All creation came from M's abyss/Sharnoth, everything is stated to be apart of him, hence why his darkness exists in all universes. M's abyss/Sharnoth transcends time, and space, apparently on an absolute scale.

I could go into Sharnoth's nature of being nothing, but everything at the same time, being a realm of blackness, eternal, without time nor space etc. But not sure if that's relevant here, here is compilation of some of those scans anyway though.
 
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Celestial_Pegasus said:
think what you were getting at with the space-time discussion, was whether or not space-time is being meant to mean the physical space-time, or space-time as a concept itself? And honestly idk, there are several statements about M/Sharnoth transcending time and space, I think the statement from my blog, about "The word's contents were a record of the physical activity and movement of the distant ancient universe and, more precisely, a record of matter and phenomena of an absolute scale that transcends time and space, of stars being crushed and the universe being mercilessly penetrated with high gravity", is the most interesting.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly where I was going with it. Given what you've posted, though, seems like it refers to the physical spacetime after all. "Transcends time and space" seems to be referring to the usual "Not confined to a specific period in history or place in the universe," in that quote, so it doesn't seem like it would warrant much either.

Celestial_Pegasus said:
I could go into Sharnoth's nature of being nothing, but everything at the same time, being a realm of blackness, eternal, without time nor space etc. But not sure if that's relevant here, here is compilation of some of those scans anyway though.
Click to expand...
Do you have the scans talking about Sharnoth as spaceless? Send everything, if possible.
 
I don't think space is specifically mentioned, those kind of statements go into Sharnoth's non-existent nature.

M isn't human or a living thing and can only be classified as Black

No one would know that the foreign land of Kadath would be discovered at the end of the Northern Sea, or that the entirety of the sky would be hidden following a technological revolution. Or perhaps that would be a different story if one were to have read the Book of Three Generations, but there was at least a single human here, at Buckingham House, where the vast palace would later be built at was who knew of it.

That's if they were a human, that is.

And this "man" clad in black was not.


"Human"


The dark one spoke.

It was clad in black and a male-like voice, often described as a "him" or "man" yet it wasn't properly human. It was doubtful to classify them as a man or woman, much less a living thing. It was Black. However, that was merely something they could only be described as such. It was even doubtful if they truly existed, as those who saw them wondered if it was due to the opium burning around them and thus doubting their own eyes and sanity. It was simply black. Black like one would think of a shadow.-Shikkoku no Sharnoth: Memory of the Black King

This is just about his conceptual nature, and perhaps nonexistent nature as well judging by the statement about it being doubtful he exists. Probably not relevant.

More of the same I think, M isn't living nor non-living, he is a phenomena which perceives everything as equally meaningless to him

Before the premise can be spoken, let Dr. Alfred Wallace's theory be brought up, where it states that while it is possible to grasp the rational thought of survival of a species, it is impossible to grasp the irrational thought of a species that isn't based on survival. Naturally, it isn't possible to discuss whether he is even a living or non-living being but the point is that he is of a different species, which is not important and thus omitted.

In any case, let us proceed with the premise.

That is to say, what did he feel of it? What did he thought of it?

In conclusion, he didn't feel anything of it. He didn't think anything of it.

He merely only acknowledges it.

He, the Black Him, the Black King, only senses and acknowledges something according to a record of Lord Leonardo da Vinci, also known as the Great Scholar Uomo Universale. To every phenomena, to every situation that occurs on the Earth, he does not feel any of it. He does not think of it.

No matter who dies.

No matter if a country was destroyed.

No matter if a continent vanishes.

Not even if a star were to fall upon the land---


"I see."


That's it.

He acknowledged something.

For example, a woman that was coming up to him.

Even if she wished it.

Even if she desired it.

Even if she were to conceive a child.

Even if she tried to reach the Gate of Tartarus, it would not come to pass, and eventually she would die.


"I see."


That's it.

He acknowledged something.

For example, a girl who was coming up to him.

Even if she prayed for him to suffer.

Even if she were to cry hopelessly.

Even if she were to replace herself with the cold steel Engine as proof of her closeness.

Even if she were to eventually disintegrate and be devoured by the darkness.


"I see."

That's it.

However, that was it.

Sometimes, he was take in something that was of interest.


For example---
A woman who dreamed of the Blue Sky and vanished in the old century.


For example---
A poor girl who died as a result of violence.


For example---
An Archduke that once crossed blades.


For example---
The remnants of a butterfly on a paved road.


To him, all of them were of equal value and thus equally meaningless.

He merely senses them. He merely acknowledges them.

Oh, I see. And that's it.

There is no emotion and thought from them, something which the black him had proven to be nothing more than a phenomena of the universe. It is something that cannot be helped, as they are not a living thing from a different species. Now, there isn't any point to interpreting him as a human being.-Shikkoku no Sharnoth: Black Voice

Again more of the same, M can't be described in human terms, and is phenomena, he is very darkness of space itself that drifts in the universe, that which is not within, that which is outside.

This hasn't happened before. It's been about three months since I started working as the Great Detective's assistant. We don't talk much, so there wasn't anything we mentioned to each other.

Namely, it was concerning me knowing about Him.

Him...him?

That man---

I didn't quite know how to express them. They certainly weren't a female and I wasn't convinced they even were so both I and Mister Holmes referred to them as Him.

For starters, how could one even describe Him if he's not even properly Human?

Yes. Expression. Words---

We were having a conversation.

It wasn't about the incident. It wasn't about Professor Presbury.

It was about Him, who sat in that world of darkness called M, who was once called James Moriarty. It was little by little. It was probably me who started the topic.

"He's not as bad you say he is."

"I doubt that."

"I mean, I once heard he was called the King of Crime or of that sort. But I'm sure that's referring to the organization He was apart of..."

"Are you referring to them as an individual?"

"Yes..."

"I see. But you are aware that there are many contradictions in your words, Mary Clarissa."

"...Yes."

"I'd say He is more like a phenomena."

At that time, Mister Holmes was looking up to the sky.

He was looking towards to the sky that will never clear up.

Looking to the sky that has turned into a perpetual darkness that obscured the countless stars there from the previous century, attempting to grasp with his gaze a radiance that isn't visible.

As if he was staring at the end.

"Think of them as the stars, atmosphere, the very darkness of space itself that drifts in the universe. That which is not within. That which is outside. Perhaps that is Him. They are neither Good nor Evil. At least, there's probably a will to them that we cannot perceive or something that is even remotely involved in our activities."

"I think I understand what you're saying..."

I didn't look at the sky. I was staring at the gray mist gathered at my feet.-The Ashen Funeral of Nath-Hortath, or Sharnoth of the Jet Black...

Edison is Jet Black itself, chaos, but isn't M, he is there at the end of the past, present, and future

Moran: At the same time, there are some uncertainties. She is thinking clearly. Is she truly under such psychological coercion? She's not under such a suggestion. Therefore, there is some deviation to one's surroundings. Are these general human thoughts? Or perhaps, this is Mary Clarissa's golden color...

M: Well?

Moran: That...please forgive me. But did you use the Equation? You...to be held up by the various kings.

M: Haha. Interesting, Moran. Did you just make a joke? Weishaupt had such a function.

Moran: Yes. No. I do not have a function similar to present general comedy.

M: That's right. I will correct you on two things. First. That fellow always had a "gap" in his preparations. Second. He is not one of the various kings. Roughly, it is not my manifestation. That body is Jet Black itself. But despite being of chaos, it is not of the Black King, but the Moon King. It was "there" at the end of the past, present, and future. Do you understand what he is?

Moran: Yes. No. Then, it's as if...

M: Say it. You can say it. I allow you, Sebastian Moran. You may speak. What is that? The clock rings for them.

Moran: The end of the past, present, and future... Something from far away... Sometimes, it howls in darkness... Sometimes, the King of the Void and the moon laughs...

--It appears so.

Moran: And it is the Crawling Chaos... But it's not in any way the King of Sharnoth... But something that came from a different sky.

M: That's right. He is "It".-Shikkoku no Sharnoth Fandisk

Think this is talking about Edison being all of space-time since he ate Yog.

Anway regarding Sharnoth, here is a compilation of some scans regarding Sharonth' nature. Sharnoth is eternal, changeless, timeless, has nothing in it etc.
 
Judging by what's been going on here, I guess the main arguments for 1A Nyars hinges on M and his Sharnoth/Jet-Black business?

Regarding the space-time stuff with Yog Sothoth, there's not really a whole lot to them as we don't have any statements in regards to how space and time are in relation to the darkness/jet-black that also constitutes creation. Doesn't help that Yog Sothoth got devoured by Edison (LOL) but I digress.

M, however, would be the main factor to this as there is quite a bunch of statements regarding how his Jet Black isn't just something merely physical but even conceptual and a bunch of other abstract stuff whenever M is being talked about in various stories that have/mention him.

As for whether it really can bump him (and Edison by design cuz he's also a Nyar too) is beyond me. Best led up for the staff who knows this way better than I do.
 
God, this has been here for a while. Getting this over with:

Edison sees the Underground as "nothingness," or "an illusion"​


Contextually, this pretty obviously refers to how the Underground is a constructed world which he can reshape at will, and which as such is completely meaningless to him. So, no evidence of R>F, no.

M is beyond space and time​

There's this statement:

The word's contents were a record of the physical activity and movement of the distant ancient universe and, more precisely, a record of matter and phenomena of an absolute scale that transcends time and space, of stars being crushed and the universe being mercilessly penetrated with high gravity. It's something that is impossible for our human language to convey, thus it is meaningless.

Yes, in later years, a young and ambitious eccentric Scholar named Aleister Crowley would publish a book on it, but no one paid any mind to it.

There was no one, to start with. Who is it that could find meaning in the Black Voice?

It was as Scholar-like as it could, none of which is on this Earth.

"To start with, the Latin that witch spoke in was certainly the secrets of magic, but the answers lies in the secrets of science."

"The point of it is it's just a record of a type of phenomenon, not some prophecy for a God in deep space. It was a code. It was a prophecy for the discovery of the Big Crunch. It was a prophecy for a clue of the Big Bang."

Said a Scholar to his friend.

His friend had overheard this and couldn't help but fathom its meaning. It was rather puzzling for these words to refer to physical phenomena, but what was the intent in uttering them?

"Darkness. The Dark. The ethereal Jet Black that floats between the stars. That which surrounds the cosmos, the very universe itself, one of the three aspects that make up this world alongside time and space."]
Click to expand...

it's pretty interesting, but it's also explicitly referring to a physical phenomenon occuring in the universe (In this case, M's darkness as it manifesta physically, from what I can gather), so there's no positive evidence pointing towards 1-A and also counter-evidence for this excerpt being 1-A, in the quote itself. Though this is not to say it's evidence against the character in general being 1-A, just this specific quote.

Then there's this:

The man shrugged his shoulders. The gesture was much like the gestures of Engine factory workers swearing at the still engine smoke, but the soft light didn't even notice it.

"It's capable of making an influence. It's different. Rather, it's something else. On the contrary, everything could be a part of that reason and law. For example, in the distant past, beyond time, space, and causality, his "Jet Black" devoured several infinitely stacked, multilayered universes that multiply indefinitely. Or even that..."

"?"

"You won't be able to understand it. It's impossible for you."
Click to expand...

Again, the "beyond time and space" statements is pretty contextless and doesn't really make it clear that it's referring to a sort of superiority over spacetime.

"This is a story of feelings from the distant Abyss. These are the traces of the eyes that sought tomorrow. At times, even when faced with the Jet Black that eats up all of the sky, it does not falter. It does not stop walking. I will teach you the name of the dreadful Jet Black."

"The name of Jet Black. This is..."

"...beyond eternity and infinity. A world without light. Its name is Sharnoth of the Jet Black."
Click to expand...

Same with this. "Beyond" just means "Outside," so "beyond eternity and infinity" is just a fancy way of saying "Outside of space and time."

Then there's this. Honestly it has a lot of interesting shit that I could easily see being 1-A if it was elaborated further, but as-is, it's so cryptic that I don't think any such rating is warranted. At face value, it only demonstrates M and Sharnoth are of a nature different from the universe, but not qualitatively superior to it.
 
I'm not seeing 1-A myself either, but "absolute scale that transcends time and space" is pretty likely to be Low 1-A, right? Unless contextually that refers to the "record" and not the "phenomena" themselves.
 
So the potential is there, yet still not enough quite enough or more like not in-depth enough~

Hmm~

Gotta wait in slumbering hell for this owo
 
Yasuda_144 said:
I'm not seeing 1-A myself either, but "absolute scale that transcends time and space" is pretty likely to be Low 1-A, right? Unless contextually that refers to the "record" and not the "phenomena" themselves.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't say so, since "Transcends space and time" could be easily taken to mean that it's not restricted by any particular point in space or any particular moment in time. Not anything inherently of interest.

Celestial_Pegasus said:
We need Sakurai to write more novels
Click to expand...
I should read this stuff sometime. Seems to be exactly my kind of autism.

Anyway: Closing.
 
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