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Yeah, the speed can stay tbh, as for the tier 5 downgrade, with all of the evidences that has been presented here, i'm in agreement with the downgrade
Missed opportunity to at least bump the downgraded tier to tier 6 smh, we could make a Servants vs RoR matches despite it wouldn't be added because verse equalizing
 
My interpretation of the OP's current moment:

All admins with a majority of ordinary members agreed to the level 5 downgrade, so I guess that was accepted.

Only one Administrator has accepted the speed downgrade, while the other is neutral leaning towards disagreeing, so I think this is closer to being refused.

Do we need any more moderators, or has the CRT already been completed?
 
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All admins with a majority of ordinary members agreed to the level 5 downgrade, so I guess that was accepted.
Except one of those admins didn't seen the counterargument immediately afterwards with Shiva. And DDM probably didn't see that at all.

At most, this makes Shiva scaling the only Tier 5 argument instead of Thor. A downgrade can't be implemented if only one half of the tier 5 arguments is even being mentioned.
 
My interpretation of the OP's current moment:

All admins with a majority of ordinary members agreed to the level 5 downgrade, so I guess that was accepted.

Only one Administrator has accepted the speed downgrade, while the other is neutral leaning towards disagreeing, so I think this is closer to being refused.

Do we need any more moderators, or has the CRT already been completed?
You can remove the Thor stuff but I’m pretty sure that doesn’t apply to shiva tier 5 stuff
 
Except one of those admins didn't seen the counterargument immediately afterwards with Shiva. And DDM probably didn't see that at all.

At most, this makes Shiva scaling the only Tier 5 argument instead of Thor. A downgrade can't be implemented if only one half of the tier 5 arguments is even being mentioned.
Okay, but did Damage tell you that he didn't see the counterarguments? Well, he may have seen them, but he still agrees with the downgrade.

Bro, DDM disagreed with the speed downgrade due to the counterarguments and you're saying that he didn't see Shiva's, and that's why he agreed with the downgrade? You've got to be kidding.
 
Except one of those admins didn't seen the counterargument immediately afterwards with Shiva. And DDM probably didn't see that at all.

At most, this makes Shiva scaling the only Tier 5 argument instead of Thor. A downgrade can't be implemented if only one half of the tier 5 arguments is even being mentioned.
Sorry have you not seen the multiple Shiva debunks posted throughout the thread or?
 
Reading through it I disagree with the Apollo's arrow nerfing the speed of Zeus and Adam. A base Zeus being superior to it and then him getting more powerful and using stronger abilities would at worst just kneecap how fast everyone else can be.

For the downgrade itself I agree that Thor's statement looks to suspect to use as a 5-B justification. If Shiva's 5-B kills him then I also don't think that's really a valid way to scale the cast to 5-B. By the same notion though High 6-A also wouldn't be supported without known what "Destroy the vaguely defined human population" actual means, since a 6-B attack could kill all life on the planet.
 
Reading through it I disagree with the Apollo's arrow nerfing the speed of Zeus and Adam. A base Zeus being superior to it and then him getting more powerful and using stronger abilities would at worst just kneecap how fast everyone else can be.

For the downgrade itself I agree that Thor's statement looks to suspect to use as a 5-B justification. If Shiva's 5-B kills him then I also don't think that's really a valid way to scale the cast to 5-B. By the same notion though High 6-A also wouldn't be supported without known what "Destroy the vaguely defined human population" actual means, since a 6-B attack could kill all life on the planet.
Thank you for your evaluation.
Couldn't we have a possible High 6-A? Thor's statement could refer to the entire surface of the Earth.
 
Thank you for your evaluation.
Couldn't we have a possible High 6-A? Thor's statement could refer to the entire surface of the Earth.
could

it could also refer to Thor going town to town and going full Purge of Strathholme and killing everyone one at a time, or destroying buildings, or XYZ multitude of other options.
 
Couldn't we have a possible High 6-A? Thor's statement could refer to the entire surface of the Earth.
You'd have to prove he could fragment the entire surface of the Earth to get that. Like I said to just life wipe you can accomplish that with a 6-B or better explosion. But I guess if others are alright High 6-A wouldn't be an unreasonable high end.
 
.

For the downgrade itself I agree that Thor's statement looks to suspect to use as a 5-B justification. If Shiva's 5-B kills him then I also don't think that's really a valid way to scale the cast to 5-B.
eh, his supposed to destroy the world the “die” then remake the world from his ashes so take that for what you will
By the same notion though High 6-A also wouldn't be supported without known what "Destroy the vaguely defined human population" actual means, since a 6-B attack could kill all life on the planet.
It seemed like they were gonna wipe them out in one blow
 
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True but it doesn’t do it for the vedas
There's enough evidence with the rest of the examples as well as the fact the Vedas claimed to know what would happen with the ability when even Shiva had no idea what would happen to not use it. So yes, it does do that for the Vedas by confirming something unknown that we have no reason to assume is accurate.
 
There's enough evidence with the rest of the examples as well as the fact the Vedas claimed to know what would happen with the ability when even Shiva had no idea what would happen to not use it. So yes, it does do that for the Vedas by confirming something unknown that we have no reason to assume is accurate.
Um no, the series would be pretty direct in its “debunking” in the vedas if that was the case
 
You mean like how Shiva himself had no idea what was going to happen when he used it? and how there is like 7 statements from in verse texts that are shown to be innacurate?
No, it say something along long the lines of “nay! actually….” Or so some backstory. The statement is pretty clearly meant to hype up the techniques power.
 
If Shiva's 5-B kills him then I also don't think that's really a valid way to scale the cast to 5-B.
I should note that Shiva's stated to be able to casually create and destroy worlds even in his base form in his introduction in R5. Tadvara Karma is just another thing.

Adamas Zeus and Adam should probably be 5-B regardless due to the "Destroying Heaven" statement, Heaven being compared in size to Earth in the layered world explanation in Round 6.
 
You mean like how Shiva himself had no idea what was going to happen when he used it?
Precisely my reasoning on it.

If person A has no idea of something being true or not, does the something and then what the claim state is evident to not be likely (burning away the world) it is reasonable to reject the hypothesis.

IE= Shiva doesn't know what the dance does, the dance is claimed to burn away the world, it clearly doesn't have that kind of heat output, we can assume the text in the RoR's Vedas to be false.

um yes actually, inferential routes to logical conclusions that still follow normal stuff like in RoR are fine to use this is simply inference within the range of data we have. I do agree that typically they'd have been extremely direct in the matter as is the norm, however this is a month-by-month manga series and inconsistencies like this can occur. That, however, doesn't disprove the point I made. However typically word pattern does not negate the fact we see it on panel of Shiva's Tandava Karma not doing what was stated. If you want to extrapolate that in fact, he can burn away the world with his dance due to the Vedas piece I don't think I can convince you. I will say it is more of a hax than an AP feat regardless of which way you want to split the topic. He also kills himself and a lot as mentioned in a previous post here and on a different thread points out RoR characters often do not scale to these great powers of theirs here's a list:
1)Shiva dying to his dance 2) Lu-Bu can't take what he dishes out with Thor's hammer breaking his legs 3) The primordial gods died for using their power 4) Raiden's muscles 5) Heracles 12 labors damage him 6) Adam's Eyes of the Lord killed him with over use 7) Beelzebub's Chaos attack literally damages himself significantly 8) Zeus's adamas form is said to make his muscles scream.
I'm sure I've mentioned other points before about this. They do not scale though via UES or anything like that as is evident.

But enough of that, let's say the Vedas was correct, let's say Shiva does scale to his Tandava Karma, that is one tier 5 feat with a litany of other feats and abilites that make Shiva's comparatively an outlier even in the best of cases here. Thor doesn't, the general gods don't, the other strongest in the verse don't have feats, the arch enemies of the setting (Primordial Gods) died using their powers and we have no knowledge of what they even do, some of the feats are implied overtime (Chaos Shiva's dance), the Völund do not increase the attack power of humans, there is no evidence on what the Midgard serpent was like, and over all there isn't enough evidence to say Shiva nor the gods deserve to be tier 5.

As others and I have pointed out, they have no intentions of destroying the earth outright and will just evolve a different species. Destroying the heavens means nothing if we have no context to what the heavens are like geographically or spatially in its whole, we don't even know if the worlds Valhalla, Midgard, and Helheim are even equal in size to one another. One could be the size of the One Piece planet, or even just Europe or whatever the best assessment we have is Midgard being a reflection to our real world but this doesn't substantiate planetary for ANYONE as there exists no evidence.

For other parts of my arguments to downgrade tier 5 RoR see my earlier post about this matter.
 
I should note that Shiva's stated to be able to casually create and destroy worlds even in his base form in his introduction in R5. Tadvara Karma is just another thing.

Adamas Zeus and Adam should probably be 5-B regardless due to the "Destroying Heaven" statement, Heaven being compared in size to Earth in the layered world explanation in Round 6.
Heaven itself doesn't look like a planet, but a place made up of several floating islands.
Eden, the place where all Christian mythology lives, is just a collection of floating islands.


When Zeus talks to Buddha, we are shown that they are on an island looking at other islands, reinforcing the thesis that the sky is made up of them.


The Hindu Kingdom also looks like an island.

The mountain ranges end out of nowhere and there seems to be nothing beyond them.


In the first image there was even an excuse due to the clouds, but not in this one. We see nothing of the curvature of this supposed planet at a considerable height, which implies that it is not spherical.


We are given a more privileged view, from above, of Shiva and his friend, where it is clear that there is nothing below them, it was just a “void”, like the other islands



which makes it logical to think that the whole sky is like this.

Since I'm not the god of wisdom, I could be wrong about the Hindu Kingdom
 
It seemed like they were gonna wipe them out in one blow
They were going to destroy a city at most from the looks of that, it is symbolic not literal. It looks like Tokyo too so if we assume that's correct it might be country level if we took it hyper literal, ignored the context of them evolving another species, and assumed they were trying to kill the humans like how the dinosaurs went out. The real world asteroid released 300 ZJ, ZJ to J is 10^21, 300x10^21 = 3x10^23 = country level AP (2.9288x10^22 to 4.184x10^23 J).

Again that's assuming we just.. ignore the context of the story and assume that one foot was going to do all the work for all these gods who want to punish humanity, the cleanses, evolving another species, the fact NONE OF THE GODS HAVE DEMONSTRATE AP LIKE THAT, etc.
 
um yes actually, inferential routes to logical conclusions that still follow normal stuff like in RoR are fine to use this is simply inference within the range of data we have. I do agree that typically they'd have been extremely direct in the matter as is the norm, however this is a month-by-month manga series and inconsistencies like this can occur. That, however, doesn't disprove the point I made. However typically word pattern does not negate the fact we see it on panel of Shiva's Tandava Karma not doing what was stated. If you want to extrapolate that in fact, he can burn away the world with his dance due to the Vedas piece I don't think I can convince you. I will say it is more of a hax than an AP feat regardless of which way you want to split the topic.
it actually dose, shiva was burning himself up and was gonna turn to ass despite shiva having no idea what would happen. Plus I’d think it be referring to the earth and not heaven. Even then there’s a couple otter statements of creating and destroying the world and what not.
He also kills himself and a lot as mentioned in a previous post here and on a different thread points out RoR characters often do not scale to these great powers of theirs here's a list:
1)Shiva dying to his dance 2) Lu-Bu can't take what he dishes out with Thor's hammer breaking his legs 3) The primordial gods died for using their power 4) Raiden's muscles 5) Heracles 12 labors damage him 6) Adam's Eyes of the Lord killed him with over use 7) Beelzebub's Chaos attack literally damages himself significantly 8) Zeus's adamas form is said to make his muscles scream.
I'm sure I've mentioned other points before about this. They do not scale though via UES or anything like that as is evident.
Um no they usually scale off of fighting each other but whatever
But enough of that, let's say the Vedas was correct, let's say Shiva does scale to his Tandava Karma, that is one tier 5 feat with a litany of other feats and abilites that make Shiva's comparatively an outlier even in the best of cases here. Thor doesn't, the general gods don't, the other strongest in the verse don't have feats, the arch enemies of the setting (Primordial Gods) died using their powers and we have no knowledge of what they even do, some of the feats are implied overtime (Chaos Shiva's dance), the Völund do not increase the attack power of humans, there is no evidence on what the Midgard serpent was like, and over all there isn't enough evidence to say Shiva nor the gods deserve to be tier 5.

As others and I have pointed out, they have no intentions of destroying the earth outright and will just evolve a different species. Destroying the heavens means nothing if we have no context to what the heavens are like geographically or spatially in its whole, we don't even know if the worlds Valhalla, Midgard, and Helheim are even equal in size to one another. One could be the size of the One Piece planet, or even just Europe or whatever the best assessment we have is Midgard being a reflection to our real world but this doesn't substantiate planetary for ANYONE as there exists no evidence.

For other parts of my arguments to downgrade tier 5 RoR see my earlier post about this matter.
eh they scale off him and they don’t have much that contradicts said scaling. Eh destroying heaven would just be supporting evidence
 
I could see arguments for High 6-A, but "Destroying a planet" can be used interchangeably between simply destroying the surface or blowing up the entire planet. Qawsed also basically mentioned thing I was going to say more or less.
 
What would the entire cast even scale to?

The Gods were able to wipe out the dinosaurs through unknown means (Probably the meteorite) but would they even scale to that?

Kojirō, Leonidas, Lü Bu, and Jack the Ripper have their own feats that their opponents can scale to
 
God, you really are the type of person to post a million scan and two dozen paragraphs all at once so that people won't bother to counter your arguments. Unfortunately for you, I'm willing to read through such things. Fortunately for me, you just repeated one point ad nauseam.
Heaven itself doesn't look like a planet, but a place made up of several floating islands.
Heaven, Earth and Helheim are all directly compared in size. Additionally, given Heaven is holding the souls of not only every human, but every animal as well as being where almost all the gods live, it would need to be at least Earth-sized to facilitate that many people. Hell, given it's floating islands, it might be larger than Earth overall. Destroying the entire thing from a single point, like Zeus was heavily implied to be capable of, would still be Planet level.
014.jpg

Also, could you remind me how you "debunked" planetary base Shiva? And make it a paragraph or less, please.
 
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God, you really are the type of person to post a million scan and two dozen paragraphs all at once so that people won't bother to counter your arguments. Unfortunately for you, I'm willing to read through such things. Fortunately for me, you just repeated one point ad nauseam.
Now I have to publish several messages because The _Smashor wants it that way? Spare me your frustrations.


Heaven, Earth and Helheim are all directly compared in size. Additionally, given Heaven is holding the souls of not only every human, but every animal as well as being where almost all the gods live, it would need to be at least Earth-sized to facilitate that many people. Hell, given it's floating islands, it might be larger than Earth overall.
It was never said how he would destroy the sky, we don't even know if it would take time or not.
Where did you get the idea that all humans and animals live in Vahalla?

Destroying the entire thing from a single point, like Zeus was heavily implied to be capable of, would still be Planet level.
💀


Also, could you remind me how you "debunked" planetary base Shiva? And make it a paragraph or less, please.
I request you to mark the answer where I debunked Shiva. Straw man fallacy in full swing...

Robes is the one taking care of Shiva's things, not me.
 
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It was never said how he would destroy the sky, we don't even know if it would take time or not.
It was implied it could happen as a side-effect of his battle with Adam, and that form only lasts a few minutes.
Now I have to publish several messages because The _Smashor wants it that way? Spare me your frustrations.
My problem is that you're posting way more than is needed to make your point, and a lot of it is redundant. Posting a lot of information causes a lot of people to not bother to read it.
 
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In fact, I do not agree with the speed reduction, because we have a reliable timer for the second fight, as well as the lightning feat of Lui Bu in his spinoff.

The downgrade of the AP looks completely fair. Especially if you take into account that we have no demonstrations of force other than 7-B.

What can I say, no one has ever mentioned that the world will be destroyed by a single attack. The character Rel+ and 7-B+ are capable of destroying the world in the shortest possible time.

The current level of power in the verse is completely ****** up, because we have an explosion of Beelzebub, which even destroyed an Arena with a diameter of 20 meters and it is described as the most destructive attack in the verse, if I am not mistaken. Even when scaling the full shock wave, we will probably get something in the range of 8-A/7-C.

And this technique, which is considered forbidden and which Zeus himself was afraid of.

So I'm even inclined to do some verse calculations and scale the characters directly.

Moreover, Lu Bu's calculation should be redone, because it should give 6-C results.
 
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