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Extra additions to Garm's profile(God of War)

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Georredannea15

Georredannea15

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I would like to try something different, just like with BDE. (Of course, this is just the calm before the storm :devilish: )

Anyway... According to current standards, NEP page summarises Type 3 simply as follows;
  1. Paradoxical Nonexistence: Characters still exist, but paradoxically behave as if they don't when attacked. Equivalently, characters qualify which don't exist, but behave as if they do in some aspect other than their interaction with attacks and abilities. To qualify for this type, a character needs to be stated to be immune to manipulations of the aspects they are nonexistent in due to their nonexistence. An example of that would be a character who is able to think, and hence has a mind, but is stated to be immune to regular mind manipulation as said mind is paradoxically nonexistent in nature. The character doesn't necessarily behave exclusively nonexistent in regard to attacks, but that is the only requirement necessary to gain this type. In terms of binary, where existence is 1 and nonexistence is 0, this would be part 0 and part 1 simultaneously.
Click to expand...

As mentioned above, a character's lack of any one aspect being completely immune from the aspects in which it is lack, and pretending to be like non-exist at the same time will also give it Type 3. In short, it is both to exist and non-exist

As for Garm, as Mimir explains, souls constitute the metaphysical aspects of a person and consist of 4 parts: form, mind, direction and luck.

Here, when Atreus draws Fenrir's soul, we see that souls really consist of 4 parts that govern the person. (2.30)

Beings completely lack of their souls will be lack of all the aspects/forms I mentioned above, as well as devoid of the concept of themselves, since in the verse souls are the specific concepts that govern humans, giants, animals, dwarves and gods (This is already accepted in the wiki).

Garm, on the other hand, lacks the soul in itself and, indirectly, its specific concept and the 4 parts that souls have.

And until Atreus gave him a piece of Fenrir's soul, Garm was completely lack of soul and parts.

Also here, beings without souls, such as Garm, are completely lack within themselves, while Atreus says that he feels nothing within itself. Gryla was absorbing their souls and seeing their memories.(Sorry about the subtitle because that's all I could find)


Conclusion: Garm must be quality for NEP Type 3 , Aspect Types 1, 2, 3 and 5 according to the above mentioned statements and current standards.

Garm is exist, it acts as if it doesn't exist within itself, and is immune to aspects of its lack. Such characters should qualify for Type 3 according to the NEP page.
 
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Type 1 NEP
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Already dealing a death blow here huh. The "Form" part of the soul is what determines the nature of the character, not that it actually refers to a physical body of a character. It's why Souls in GoW are Type 3 Concepts.

And just like that, the Aspects 1 to 5 all lose their reasoning to exist as well.

Disagree with OP. Garm lacking a soul does not give him NEP in any sense of the word, just like how Chaos doesn't get NEP just because she's the literal void in GoW to which everything collapses into, because she is the literal origin point of life itself.

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 @LephyrTheRevanchist You can take it from here.
 
KLOL506 said:
Already dealing a death blow here huh. The "Form" part of the soul is what determines the nature of the character, not that it actually refers to a physical body of a character. It's why Souls in GoW are Type 3 Concepts.
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No where is it said that for NEP you need to lack Type 1 concepts. And as I wrote above, a character need not be physically lack for a Type 1 NEP( It doesn't even say it on the page.) It is sufficient for a Type 1 NEP that he lacks an aspect of his existence. As in DT's example, "a stone is lack of a soul"

In short, if a character is lack from a aspect of their existence, it is Type 1 NEP.
KLOL506 said:
Disagree with this. Garm lacking a soul does not give him NEP in any sense of the word, just like how Chaos doesn't get NEP just because she's the literal void in GoW to which everything collapses into, because she is the literal origin point of life itself.

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 You can take it from here.
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You know the two situations are different.

My only request from you is that you only comment according to the standards written on the page. For Type 1 NEP, you don't always have to lack a physical body.
 
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Georredannea15 said:
No where is it said that for NEP you need to lack Type 1 concepts. And as I wrote above, a character need not be physically lack for a Type 1 NEP( It doesn't even say it on the page.) It is sufficient for a Type 1 NEP that he lacks an aspect of his existence. As in DT's example, "a stone is lack of a soul"
Click to expand...
Lacking a soul is not the same as not existing in a conventional sense. This would be like the old justification for Ygg having NEP, which was of course, completely misunderstood and promptly removed. Read the explanation once again:

"In simple terms that means that the characters simply lack the aspect, in the same way that a stone lacks a soul."

That doesn't make a stone lacking a soul the exact same thing as lacking an aspect of existence. Garm still has a physical body to go about. Being even voids of nothingness won't grant you NEP anymore by default. Just ask Void Mundus.

Georredannea15 said:
In short, if a character is lack from a aspect of their existence, it is Type 1 NEP.
Click to expand...
By that logic every single character without a soul has NEP now, including ******* Atlas of all people who also lacks a soul like Garm but still keeps kicking. That's not how this works.

Georredannea15 said:
You know the two situations are different.
Click to expand...
Not really, no.
 
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KLOL506 said:
Lacking a soul is not the same as not existing in a conventional sense. This would be like the old justification for Ygg having NEP, which was of course, completely misunderstood and promptly removed. Read the explanation once again:
Click to expand...
There is no statement that says Yggdrasil lacks any aspect. It's NEP was complete bullshit.
KLOL506 said:
"In simple terms that means that the characters simply lack the aspect

That doesn't make a stone lacking a soul the exact same thing as lacking an aspect of existence. Garm still has a physical body to go about. Being even voids of nothingness won't grant you NEP anymore by default. Just ask Void Mundus.
Click to expand...
Characters with type 1 NEP simply lack a state of a existence(It's aspect types.)The page clearly states this.

Souls, mind, body and concept are aspects of a person's existence and concept is the most basic building block of existence. A character who lacks these in himself qualifies for NEP Type 1 even if he has a physical self.

And as the page says, you don't need to lack all of these aspect types. Even if you lack one of these aspect types in existence, you still qualify for Type 1 NEP.

Also, being a "void" is not enough for NEP. Lacking an aspect is not the same as being a void. This was exactly Mundus's case

"For NEP, you must first lack the physical self." This no longer works like it used to. That's why aspect types and type 3 came. It has been further elaborated.
 
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I edited the OP a bit more. Frankly, my current goal is Type 3 rather than Type 1, but I want to hear if the two can be together.
 
NEP 1, no, it say in NEP page that the body must be nonexist
The physical body of every character with this ability has to be nonexistent. That means that users always are Incorporeal, unless maybe they physically qualify for Paradoxical Nonexistence.
Click to expand...

NEP 3... probably
 
So, I properly read through the page and yeah this isn't really going to fly. As a default, every character with this ability must be physically nonexistent. It even goes out of its way to say that a robot for example, wouldn't qualify for any type, despite lacking a soul/mind.
 
Fixxed said:
NEP 1, no, it say in NEP page that the body must be nonexist
Click to expand...
Yeah I guess I mixed Type 1 with Type 3.
Fixxed said:
NEP 3... probably
Click to expand...
Well, for Type 3 it seems sufficient for Garm to exist(there), but also a "non-exist" in its own lack and be immune from the aspects of lack... It seems enough for Type 3. Even Atreus says he "feels nothing" for Garm and beings like it.
 
Planck69 said:
So, I properly read through the page and yeah this isn't really going to fly. As a default, every character with this ability must be physically nonexistent. It even goes out of its way to say that a robot for example, wouldn't qualify for any type, despite lacking a soul/mind.
Click to expand...
The physical body of every character with this ability has to be nonexistent. That means that users always are Incorporeal, unless maybe they physically qualify for Paradoxical Nonexistence. That means that robots or similar don't qualify for spiritual or mental nonexistence, as they physically exist. Incorporeality alone, however, is not enough. The character has to additionally have at least one combination of the following types:
Click to expand...
My goal is actually Type 3. It is said that physical absence is not always required for type 3 NEP.

In short,a character having a physical body can have Type 3 NEP.
 
I mean yeah, but I'm not seeing what's specifically Type 3 about this. He just lacks a soul/mind/concept.

Can you actually give a difference between him and a robot that makes one qualify and not the other?
 
Planck69 said:
Can you actually give a difference between him and a robot that makes one qualify and not the other?
Click to expand...
So yes,

For example, as Atreus said for animals that are like Garm and Garm "he doesn't feel from they exist/feel nothing."

And the other is that characters that qualify for Type 3 have immunity to what they lack of aspect. Garm already has it.
 
Georredannea15 said:
So yes,

For example, as Atreus said for animals that are like Garm and Garm "he doesn't feel from they exist/feel nothing."

And the other is that characters that qualify for Type 3 have immunity to what they lack of aspect. Garm already has it.
Click to expand...
He says he feels nothing cause there's no mind/soul there, yes. That's the same as a robot.

What other characters are these and why are their contexts the same as Garm's?
 
Planck69 said:
He says he feels nothing cause there's no mind/soul there, yes. That's the same as a robot.
Click to expand...
That is. This means that although Garm exists, but at the same time it's non-exist in an lack and they can't feel it's existence. This fits the definition of type 3 exactly
Planck69 said:
What other characters are these and why are their contexts the same as Garm's?
Click to expand...
I added it to the OP
 
That's not some paradoxical thing, I dunno why you make it out to be that way. He's an immortal wolf that lacks a soul, which consists of his mind, luck and concept. That's all there is to it.

And I'm not seeing any actual character examples in the OP.
 
Planck69 said:
That's not some paradoxical thing, I dunno why you make it out to be that way. He's an immortal wolf that lacks a soul, which consists of his mind, luck and concept. That's all there is to it.
Click to expand...
Obviously, Garm's situation is exactly in same with the Type 3.
Planck69 said:
And I'm not seeing any actual character examples in the OP.
Click to expand...
The things I'm talking about are for the animals whose souls Gryla eats, who, like Garm, although physically exist, are in a spiritual, mental, and conceptual lack within themselves, so Atreus says that he cannot feel they existence.(Although he saw them)

I have no idea why this is still not good for type 3
 
KLOL506 said:
Already dealing a death blow here huh. The "Form" part of the soul is what determines the nature of the character, not that it actually refers to a physical body of a character. It's why Souls in GoW are Type 3 Concepts.

And just like that, the Aspects 1 to 5 all lose their reasoning to exist as well.

Disagree with OP. Garm lacking a soul does not give him NEP in any sense of the word, just like how Chaos doesn't get NEP just because she's the literal void in GoW to which everything collapses into, because she is the literal origin point of life itself.

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 @LephyrTheRevanchist You can take it from here.
Click to expand...
Same reasons, I disagree with OP.
 
Did not really change my stance, I don't even see how is this NEP type 3, and you probably misunderstood the standards. Planck already mentioned my concerns.
 
Obviously, the full definition of Type 3 is whether a character exists and also does not exist.

Garm, on the other hand, exists, just like the others, but has complete lack in itself, and so although it exists, it cannot be felt in any way from the point of view of existence. In short, it shows the property of non-existence. And I have no idea how this isn't type 3
 
Nah bruh, just leddit go man, it's over

7cfwem.png
 

KLOL506 said:
Nah bruh, just leddit go man, it's over

7cfwem.png
Click to expand...
Man, I don't understand at all how this is not type 3 NEP, the only thing everyone says is "This is not NEP type. 3" but when it comes to make arguments I don't see any of them. Interesting...
 
Both of you can it or I will have your commenting rights revoked. I have tagged staff. Let them evaluate. Neither of you have any further business creating a shitstorm here.
 
So my disagreement/stance should be “invalid” or false, and therefore I am not allowed to comment in your thread, because it does not align with your accomplishments of the thread's outcome? This is some type of childish response.

Not sure if you want to argue further, but we can move this to RvR if you want.
 
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