UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE [shiny new] DISCUSSION THEAD

[AyOgUyS]

This world is built up for the bourgeois (Gow, Tensura, MGK, etc) while we common folk all suffer in the field of rose and gold

PREACH!

 

[Comiphorous]

Ignore it
There is no good match up between Deepwoken and Deltarune. Or Deepwoken character stomp or Deltarune characters stomp. ******* Ralsei solos the verse

The characters don't exactly have dodging skills to go untouched from attacks that would otherwise one-shot them, so they can really only fight people near their level.

Well, there is one guy from deltarune who does have dodging feats like that but he's somewhere else.

 

[God_of_perversion]

PREACH!

I had to put the "(satire)" there for my own safety

 

[God_of_perversion]

The characters don't exactly have dodging skills to go untouched from attacks that would otherwise one-shot them, so they can really only fight people near their level.

They're damnaku dodgers, of course they can. If the opposing party isn't skilled enought, any Fun Gang menber and people who scale to them in skill can dodge all of their opponent's attacks

 

[Comiphorous]

They're damnaku dodgers, of course they can.

The fun gang? Maybe, and even that's reliant on the skill level of the player really so not exactly reliable. (But still fairly impressive regardless, but not "dodge everything without getting hit with zero effort" levels) Outside of the heroes, darkners have next to nothing with dodging feats outside of Chapter 1.

 

[Imaginym]

Hello, so sorry, to everyone, truly, for not being around for so long!
I've been avoiding social media to avoid Deltarune Chapter 5 spoilers. (Sadly, I still got some via YT thumbnails & stuff on the Deltarune Wiki.)

It's been difficult finding time to play Deltarune, in part because I was procrastinating replaying it to fix some stuff my old file had. (Like missing a Dog Dollar in Chapter 4 & not returning Top Chef's TopCake to get the SpinCake. I was pondering if the TopCake would be better to keep back then, despite it being single use, but I've been proven wrong. Also, kindness is surely correct in this game.)

Recently, I've locked in on my Deltarune replay.

After about 6 & a quarter hours of attempts, I finally beat The Roaring Knight in Chapter 3.
I did it under my own absurd principles, too:

Get both Check dialogues as well as both HoldBreath dialogues.
Use S-Action & R-Action both at least once each. (So that I did indeed try ACTing & Talking.)
Do it with only 5 ReviveMints. (I didn't obtain the 7th because I got all S Ranks in Chapter 3. No, I didn't do the Sword Route. & I don't really consider S Rank that great an accomplishment; I just wanted the extra Pink Ribbon. I didn't use the 6th because I want the 6th to protect the still non-replenishable ReviveDust from Susie eating a Revive item (She prioritizes Mints first.) during the LightWorld scene in Chapter 4 where Kris can hang out with Susie instead of going to sleep. Is it silly to undergo this hardship just so I can see their friendship scene AND keep a precious item? Yeah, probably, lol.)
& of course, I did it without the ShadowMantle.

....Of course, I understand if that's not particularly impressive, y'all.

Anyway, I'm going to get back to replaying Deltarune so I can advance into Chapter 5 & see what's happening; I will be avoiding this thread (Among other Deltarune content.) until I've finished Chapter 5, so as to avoid (further) spoilers.

Apologies if any mind my absence! Good luck! & best wishes, all!

 

[God_of_perversion]

Hello, so sorry, to everyone, truly, for not being around for so long!
I've been avoiding social media to avoid Deltarune Chapter 5 spoilers. (Sadly, I still got some via YT thumbnails & stuff on the Deltarune Wiki.)

It's been difficult finding time to play Deltarune, in part because I was procrastinating replaying it to fix some stuff my old file had. (Like missing a Dog Dollar in Chapter 4 & not returning Top Chef's TopCake to get the SpinCake. I was pondering if the TopCake would be better to keep back then, despite it being single use, but I've been proven wrong. Also, kindness is surely correct in this game.)

Recently, I've locked in on my Deltarune replay.

After about 6 & a quarter hours of attempts, I finally beat The Roaring Knight in Chapter 3.
I did it under my own absurd principles, too:

Get both Check dialogues as well as both HoldBreath dialogues.
Use S-Action & R-Action both at least once each. (So that I did indeed try ACTing & Talking.)
Do it with only 5 ReviveMints. (I didn't obtain the 7th because I got all S Ranks in Chapter 3. No, I didn't do the Sword Route. & I don't really consider S Rank that great an accomplishment; I just wanted the extra Pink Ribbon. I didn't use the 6th because I want the 6th to protect the still non-replenishable ReviveDust from Susie eating a Revive item (She prioritizes Mints first.) during the LightWorld scene in Chapter 4 where Kris can hang out with Susie instead of going to sleep. Is it silly to undergo this hardship just so I can see their friendship scene AND keep a precious item? Yeah, probably, lol.)
& of course, I did it without the ShadowMantle.

....Of course, I understand if that's not particularly impressive, y'all.

Anyway, I'm going to get back to replaying Deltarune so I can advance into Chapter 5 & see what's happening; I will be avoiding this thread (Among other Deltarune content.) until I've finished Chapter 5, so as to avoid (further) spoilers.

Apologies if any mind my absence! Good luck! & best wishes, all!

I also tried to avoid chapter 5 spoilers lol
It is very hard

 

[God_of_perversion]

I'm thinking of abandoning my CRT and just putting the missed abilities on another CRT

 

[AyOgUyS]

I'm thinking of abandoning my CRT and just putting the missed abilities on another CRT

don't give up, keep bugging staff

 

[God_of_perversion]

don't give up, keep bugging staff

Look dawg, i already missed some abilities on the CRT (Frisk having empathic manipulation and Asriel having statistic amplification) and I'm already planning on make a CRT to rework how the wiki treats determination and timeline control.
Besides that, I doubt any staff is gonna come to see the CRT again

 

[AyOgUyS]

Look dawg, i already missed some abilities on the CRT (Frisk having empathic manipulation and Asriel having statistic amplification) and I'm already planning on make a CRT to rework how the wiki treats determination and timeline control.

Will Tier 1 stay?

Besides that, I doubt any staff is gonna come to see the CRT again

imma go bug someone then

 

[God_of_perversion]

Also, do yall think Asriel should have subjective reality based on scaling to Frisk's determination?
At first, I tought that Asriel shouldn't qualify because he lacked Hopes and Dreams. However, Asriel did regain his emotions after regaining his Asriel form and these emotions resurged by the end of the battle.
I'm thinking of adding it but with a note that says that Asriel can't use subjective reality unless his emotion resurge again. If yall think he can use hopes and dreams even before Frisk saved him, I'm fine with this interpretation

 

[AyOgUyS]

imma go bug someone then

I bugged dalesean

 

[AyOgUyS]

Also, do yall think Asriel should have subjective reality based on scaling to Frisk's determination?

No.

 

[SnakesCity]

Also, do yall think Asriel should have subjective reality based on scaling to Frisk's determination?
At first, I tought that Asriel shouldn't qualify because he lacked Hopes and Dreams. However, Asriel did regain his emotions after regaining his Asriel form and these emotions resurged by the end of the battle.
I'm thinking of adding it but with a note that says that Asriel can't use subjective reality unless his emotion resurge again. If yall think he can use hopes and dreams even before Frisk saved him, I'm fine with this interpretation

Asriel already has subjective reality. (Though not from scaling via Frisk's determination)

 

[AyOgUyS]

Asriel already has subjective reality.

sigh
Adds that to my list of downgrades.

 

[Edutyn]

I'm thinking of abandoning my CRT and just putting the missed abilities on another CRT

 

[God_of_perversion]

Will Tier 1 stay?

Dawg, the revision will be about giving every character who has determination immo4 and 8, time manipulation and Save and Loads.

I don't like how the wiki doesn't give the determination abilities to the characters who had their determination nulled by Frisk or Flowey.

Imagine we are in a cultivation world and characters A has fire manipulation, but his city is under Cultivators B domain's that disallow the use of the fire element. Is it fair to not index Character A's fire manipulate simply because his setting stops it?

Undyne and the Almagamates couldn't use their timeline control because or Frisk or Flower was always nullifying it, it makes no sense why they wouldn't have control over the timeline on Versus match ups here on the wiki since no being with determination would be there to overpower theirs.

Why should Undyne and the Almagamtes lack determination abilities on a versus match up when they both have determination?

 

[AyOgUyS]

snippity snippy snip

hm

 

[StrymULTRA]

I don't like how the wiki doesn't give the determination abilities to the characters who had their determination nulled by Frisk or Flowey.

Imagine we are in a cultivation world and characters A has fire manipulation, but his city is under Cultivators B domain's that disallow the use of the fire element. Is it fair to not index Character A's fire manipulate simply because his setting stops it?

Undyne and the Apmagamates couldn't use their timeline control because or Frisk or Flower was always nullifying it, it makes no sense why they wouldn't have control over the timeline on Versus match ups here on the wiki since no being with determination would be there to overpower theirs.

Why should Undyne and the Almagamtes lack determination abilities on a versus match up when they both have determination?

They were simply not aware of this in the first place, for the same reason why Chara did not use the SAVE not even after dying alongside Asriel.

You gotta remember that Flowey discovered that by accident.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Look dawg, i already missed some abilities on the CRT (Frisk having empathic manipulation and Asriel having statistic amplification) and I'm already planning on make a CRT to rework how the wiki treats determination and timeline control.
Besides that, I doubt any staff is gonna come to see the CRT again

tbf Undertale is no longer in the list of controversial verses, so 2 staff are enough lol.

 

[God_of_perversion]

They were simply not aware of this in the first place, for the same reason why Chara did not use the SAVE not even after dying alongside Asriel.

You gotta remember that Flowey discovered that by accident.

Lemon bread copied a Save perfectly, the almagamates do know about timeline control based on that.
Also wouldn't both of them know about their Immo4 and 8 after their death? Chara had their soul absorbed by Asriel so I don't know if that is good example

 

[StrymULTRA]

Lemon bread copied a Save perfectly, the almagamates do know about timeline control based on that.

ig for them that does work.

Also wouldn't both of them know about their Immo4 and 8 after their death? Chara had their soul absorbed by Asriel so I don't know if that is good example

Chara was still fully conscious within Asriel, they definitely could have used their SAVE file to before their suicide if they could, why would they stay dead if the option to not to is there?

 

[God_of_perversion]

Chara was still fully conscious within Asriel, they definitely could have used their SAVE file to before their suicide if they could, why would they stay dead if the option to not to is there?

1: Did Chara and Asriel even have control over the timeline? Chara should have it on the Underground but Asriel shouldn't have it on the surface since it should have been nullified by the other human's determination (Like how Frisk made so Asriel didn't have control over the timeline on his boss fight)

2: Can souls even use Save and Load while they are absorbed by a monster?
Omega Flowey had control over the timeline, not the human souls.
I assume that when a Monster absorbs a human, they are the ones who gain the control over the timeline since they are the ones who now own their determination

 

[God_of_perversion]

Can we index Alphy's jetpack and Yellow soul mode as optional equipaments?
The yellow soul mode was used in two different battles so it might count. It would grant Frisk this—

Energy projection, magic and soul manipulation: Yellow soul mode allows Frisk to shoot energy projectiles. This mode was created as a weapon by Alphys.
Even the eletricity of the underground is magical in nature

 

[LittleGuy99]

Peak animation

 

[EnderLord8]

I’ve always wondered why Undyne—and others who possessed a significant amount of Determination—didn't have these abilities related to save points.

On another note, the music from the Flowey battle seems to suggest that Asgore stands 10 feet 20 inches tall; how exactly should we interpret this information?

 

[Comiphorous]

On another note, the music from the Flowey battle seems to suggest that Asgore stands 10 feet 20 inches tall; how exactly should we interpret this information?

in comparison to other characters like kris, it makes them enormous for a high school kid, so it's sort of just written off.

 

[God_of_perversion]

in comparison to other characters like kris, it makes them enormous for a high school kid, so it's sort of just written off.

What if Kris is just really tall?

 

[Comiphorous]

What if Kris is just really tall?

I think we both know Kris clearly isn't meant to be over 7 feet tall.

 

[God_of_perversion]

I think we both know Kris clearly isn't meant to be over 7 feet tall.

Nah, Kris can dunk really well

 

[Comiphorous]

Nah, Kris can dunk really well

*Susie can dunk really well.

 

[IDK3465]

in comparison to other characters like kris, it makes them enormous for a high school kid, so it's sort of just written off.

Maybe we can use this for our Undertale calcs since it's an actual stated height?

 

[Comiphorous]

Maybe we can use this for our Undertale calcs since it's an actual stated height?

I never really considered that. I don't know how the height scaling is in Undertale if you use that statement for undertale characters, so i can't really say. I don't think there's anything really wrong with using that statement for UT Asgore since they're literally the same guy with the exact same sprites as well but who knows what mods would think.

 

[EnderLord8]

I think we both know Kris clearly isn't meant to be over 7 feet tall.

Did Toby "Radiation" Fox tell you that?

I never really considered that. I don't know how the height scaling is in Undertale if you use that statement for undertale characters, so i can't really say. I don't think there's anything really wrong with using that statement for UT Asgore since they're literally the same guy with the exact same sprites as well but who knows what mods would think.

I can certainly understand that AP and speed values don't necessarily translate directly from one universe to another, but we can definitely say that their sizes are comparable; this is even highlighted in the opening scene of Undertale—which depicts the war between monsters and humans—by showing an Asgore who stands about 10 feet tall.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I can certainly understand that AP and speed values don't necessarily translate directly from one universe to another, but we can definitely say that their sizes are comparable; this is even highlighted in the opening scene of Undertale—which depicts the war between monsters and humans—by showing an Asgore who stands about 10 feet tall.

Especially since rn all UT AP calcs use Mettaton EX supposedly being 1.7m as their basis.

 

[EnderLord8]

Especially since rn all UT AP calcs use Mettaton EX supposedly being 1.7m as their basis.

Frankly, I think we have a stronger case for using Asgore—with his 10-foot-20 stature—than Mettaton, at 1.7 meters.

 

[IDK3465]

Ok, I just looked at the earlier calc for Asgore’s height based on the intro, and it’s weirdly consistent with the 10 ft 20 statement (346.8 cm vs 355.6 cm), so yeah, I think that’s enough to say Asgore is indeed THAT tall and we should use that for our calcs

 

[SnakesCity]

I've expressed this before but I do not think "ten foot twenty the flower man" is relating to Asgore as it's a song about Flowery and 10'20" isn't an actual valid measurement of height in the first place... (Although he could be around there even without the lyrics since he has always been depicted as very large or even absurdly tall in some Temmie art).

 

[Comiphorous]

Did Toby "Radiation" Fox tell you that?

A human child in high school depicted comparable height, sometimes shorter, than their classmates who also is depicted fairly normal sized to the objects around them probably isn't over 7 feet tall because of a measurement as stupid as "10 feet 20 inches"

Are we seriously going to delude ourselves into believing Kris is unironically 7 feet tall?